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On April 05 2015 00:51 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2015 00:46 ohmylanta1003 wrote:On April 04 2015 23:17 Hider wrote:On April 04 2015 22:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I don't see the point in giving that unit the siege mode at all tbh.
These "long range" solutions didn't really work out that great so far in sc2 if you ask me. This is very different though. First of all, it's only 9 range. Not like 15+ as Tempests and SH are. Secondly, due to its immobility its constantly a vulnerable target to focus fire. So I don't think there is an issue here from a microinteraction perspective. Terran seems to be a race which doesn't really need new units tbh, just fix existing ones to be better at their initial purpose. (siege tanks, thors, ravens, ghost?) I agree with this. Marines are basically the only unit I wouldn't touch. Everything else could use an overhaul. Lol. Hilarious. And this is why Blizzard doesn't listen to the fanbase. "I think we should just change everything". Lol. What a joke. Why are you on TL if you have an aversion to discussion? Please let us talk in peace and go away.
I'm not trying to derail any discussion. You and I can discuss right now. But saying that you think every unit but 1 needs to be completely redesigned is honestly laughable. The game is so well balanced at the moment and in its current form, almost nothing (in HOTS) needs to be changed. Even if it wasn't completely balanced, do you not also think that someone proposing a redesign of every unit is ridiculous?
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Well balanced and fun are two entirely different things. The current swarm hosts and metagame are well balanced but they are stale and boring.
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On April 04 2015 23:00 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Terran seems to be a race which doesn't really need new units tbh, just fix existing ones to be better at their initial purpose. (siege tanks, thors, ravens, ghost?)
no race desperately needed any new units. it's not about fixing things at this point but about giving the players new stuff and spicing things up.
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On April 05 2015 01:15 andrewlt wrote:
Well balanced and fun are two entirely different things. The current swarm hosts and metagame are well balanced but they are stale and boring.
I totally agree. If there was only one unit that could be changed/removed, it would have to be swarm hosts.
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On April 05 2015 00:51 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2015 00:46 ohmylanta1003 wrote:On April 04 2015 23:17 Hider wrote:On April 04 2015 22:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I don't see the point in giving that unit the siege mode at all tbh.
These "long range" solutions didn't really work out that great so far in sc2 if you ask me. This is very different though. First of all, it's only 9 range. Not like 15+ as Tempests and SH are. Secondly, due to its immobility its constantly a vulnerable target to focus fire. So I don't think there is an issue here from a microinteraction perspective. Terran seems to be a race which doesn't really need new units tbh, just fix existing ones to be better at their initial purpose. (siege tanks, thors, ravens, ghost?) I agree with this. Marines are basically the only unit I wouldn't touch. Everything else could use an overhaul. Lol. Hilarious. And this is why Blizzard doesn't listen to the fanbase. "I think we should just change everything". Lol. What a joke. Why are you on TL if you have an aversion to discussion? Please let us talk in peace and go away.
Hmm. Seems to me that you are the one with an "aversion to discussion", as you still haven't responded to my reply.
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On April 05 2015 01:20 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2015 23:00 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Terran seems to be a race which doesn't really need new units tbh, just fix existing ones to be better at their initial purpose. (siege tanks, thors, ravens, ghost?) no race desperately needed any new units. it's not about fixing things at this point but about giving the players new stuff and spicing things up.
Which can be done while you tweak/redesign existing units.
But saying that you think every unit but 1 needs to be completely redesigned is honestly laughable.
First of all, take all of your strawmans away. I am not talking about huge redeisgns to all units. I am talking about tweaks to some units and redesigns to other units.
Anyway, the point here is that there is alot potential in most units that hasn't been explored because Blizzard has done a poor job of tweaking them over the years. Most of the potential here isn't something thats very complicated to be unlocked, but can be done in 5 mins in the editor.
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My two cents is to change that instead of making the Disruptor and the Nydus worm invulnerable is to make it so they get +10 armor or more during the duration instead.
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On April 05 2015 02:51 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2015 01:20 Charoisaur wrote:On April 04 2015 23:00 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Terran seems to be a race which doesn't really need new units tbh, just fix existing ones to be better at their initial purpose. (siege tanks, thors, ravens, ghost?) no race desperately needed any new units. it's not about fixing things at this point but about giving the players new stuff and spicing things up. Which can be done while you tweak/redesign existing units. Show nested quote +But saying that you think every unit but 1 needs to be completely redesigned is honestly laughable. First of all, take all of your strawmans away. I am not talking about huge redeisgns to all units. I am talking about tweaks to some units and redesigns to other units. Anyway, the point here is that there is alot potential in most units that hasn't been explored because Blizzard has done a poor job of tweaking them over the years. Most of the potential here isn't something thats very complicated to be unlocked, but can be done in 5 mins in the editor.
And this is what they are doing in LOTV. But have you seen the amount of bitching about it already, after being out for merely a day? It's a beta guys. Anyway, there is almost no reason to tweak anything in HOTS, which is why they haven't, because it's at a very good balance right now.
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And this is what they are doing in LOTV. But have you seen the amount of !@#$%^&* about it already, after being out for merely a day? It's a beta guys.
They barely changed any exisiting units since Blizzcon in November. Let's look at some units that they could and should have been touching.
Reaper: Useless after early game for 5 years.
All air units in the game (basically): Lack of moving shot. Why?
PDD: The new 20-second timer isn't a proper tweak. That's a nerf to a boring ability w/ lack of interesting countermicro and a low skillcap. Yes you can kill it, but your never actually rewarded for doing so. (this is very easy to test in the unit tester fyi).
Snipe and EMP have both been in a really bad spot (+ they are boring) for a long time and nukes underutilized.
Thor: Microless a-move unit. The transformation thing actually had potential, but the implementation never made sense.
(And that was just a couple of terran examples. It gets much worse for protoss).
Anyway, there is almost no reason to tweak anything in HOTS, which is why they haven't, because it's at a very good balance right now.
Noone is talking about balance here. Its entirely focussed on design. You improve micro interactions in the game by tweaking stats. Micro-interactions do not need months in public beta to created.
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Are stasis wards permanent until they activate?
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On April 05 2015 03:28 royalroadweed wrote:
Are stasis wards permanent until they activate?
Yes, you can destroy them before activation though.
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On April 05 2015 03:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2015 03:28 royalroadweed wrote:
Are stasis wards permanent until they activate? Yes, you can destroy them before activation though.
Anyone with the beta used them? Thats seems way too strong if they're permanent and oracles don't have a limit in how many they can place.
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On April 05 2015 01:20 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2015 23:00 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Terran seems to be a race which doesn't really need new units tbh, just fix existing ones to be better at their initial purpose. (siege tanks, thors, ravens, ghost?) no race desperately needed any new units. it's not about fixing things at this point but about giving the players new stuff and spicing things up.
You bring up a good point. The main purpose of an expansion, from blizzard's perspective, is not to improve the game, but to introduce completely new things to keep the game fresh.
This is sad for the "loyal starcraft 2 fans" but it's indeed a way to attract more casual/inconsistent players/viewers.
On April 05 2015 03:53 royalroadweed wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2015 03:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:On April 05 2015 03:28 royalroadweed wrote:
Are stasis wards permanent until they activate? Yes, you can destroy them before activation though. Anyone with the beta used them? Thats seems way too strong if they're permanent and oracles don't have a limit in how many they can place.
I think you treat them more or less like widow mines, you bait the activation with a small unit and you're good to go
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On April 05 2015 04:05 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2015 03:53 royalroadweed wrote:On April 05 2015 03:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:On April 05 2015 03:28 royalroadweed wrote:
Are stasis wards permanent until they activate? Yes, you can destroy them before activation though. Anyone with the beta used them? Thats seems way too strong if they're permanent and oracles don't have a limit in how many they can place. I think you treat them more or less like widow mines, you bait the activation with a small unit and you're good to go
You can turn off the autocast though, but you can destroy them anyway if you have detection. I wouldn't be surprised if they become a problem because you can turn off activation and protect them with your own units so you activate them just when mass of enemy units commit to take them down.
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On April 04 2015 22:35 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2015 22:24 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Well that units seems to be very weird Oo
Siege mode for air to ground? WHY ![[image loading]](http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/20/19899/thumb_620x2000/siegedestroyer04.png) what terran really needs, flying siege tanks.
Good God, Stukov Siege CattleBruiser Tanks?! IMBAAAAAAAAA
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Watching Huk vs. Semper(PvT) on Desrow weekly right now is amazing, action happening all over the map. :D
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On April 05 2015 04:05 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2015 01:20 Charoisaur wrote:On April 04 2015 23:00 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Terran seems to be a race which doesn't really need new units tbh, just fix existing ones to be better at their initial purpose. (siege tanks, thors, ravens, ghost?) no race desperately needed any new units. it's not about fixing things at this point but about giving the players new stuff and spicing things up. You bring up a good point. The main purpose of an expansion, from blizzard's perspective, is not to improve the game, but to introduce completely new things to keep the game fresh. This is sad for the "loyal starcraft 2 fans" but it's indeed a way to attract more casual/inconsistent players/viewers.
Precisely. Though I'm pretty sure they know it's the final iteration here and will care about the quality of the game.
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i've watched very little lotv so far, but from what i've seen i'm a little concerned...
don't get me wrong, i'm not a blizzard pitchforker, and i'm actually really excited for the new expansion. but a lot of the interactions involving the new units seem a bit off...
-stasis trap seems very boring and annoying anti-micro
-pvt seems like it's still about desperately trying to hold on to bases, AOEing mass bio with gateway units as a buffer. disruptor is interesting, but still has the classic protoss issue of being a big fragile ball of AOE gas
-roach/ravager vs roach/ravager is worse to watch than roach vs roach
-sieged tank drops seem ridiculous and abusive, not that they're "imbalanced" it just seems really bizarre and out of place
again, haven't seen a lot and haven't played it at all, so i'm not claiming to know best, but my thoughts on what i've seen aren't 100% positive. to be quite honest despite its issues i really enjoyed hots design, and while i support radical changes i'm hoping they bring radical and fun new game dynamics, and so far... eh...
anyone who's played/watched more have any thoughts?
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On April 05 2015 07:51 brickrd wrote:
i've watched very little lotv so far, but from what i've seen i'm a little concerned...
don't get me wrong, i'm not a blizzard pitchforker, and i'm actually really excited for the new expansion. but a lot of the interactions involving the new units seem a bit off...
-stasis trap seems very boring and annoying anti-micro
-pvt seems like it's still about desperately trying to hold on to bases, AOEing mass bio with gateway units as a buffer. disruptor is interesting, but still has the classic protoss issue of being a big fragile ball of AOE gas
-roach/ravager vs roach/ravager is worse to watch than roach vs roach
-sieged tank drops seem ridiculous and abusive, not that they're "imbalanced" it just seems really bizarre and out of place
again, haven't seen a lot and haven't played it at all, so i'm not claiming to know best, but my thoughts on what i've seen aren't 100% positive. to be quite honest despite its issues i really enjoyed hots design, and while i support radical changes i'm hoping they bring radical and fun new game dynamics, and so far... eh...
anyone who's played/watched more have any thoughts?
I just wish there was a way to make zealot/stalker comps stronger without breaking the game, protoss is so reliant on gimmicky spells and aoe and it's not fun to play or play against.
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On April 04 2015 19:46 Cyro wrote:wow, pretty amazing the ways they can come up with to mess up a cool idea. All people have asked for - for the last 5-6 years - is brood war-like carrier control and we still don't have it
we do have it actually, but we also have the option of dumping the interceptor, the carrier is really sick atm imo
about the only good protoss unit
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EPT
