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Thanks to Reddit sleuths, everyone can try the LotV test maps by following instructions here. Note: This is not a beta key, it is simply access to Vs. AI and a Unit Tester. I have no idea how cool with this Blizzard is or is not, use at your own risk. |
Italy12248 Posts
On March 31 2015 02:07 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 02:03 KatatoniK wrote:On March 31 2015 01:45 TronJovolta wrote:On March 31 2015 01:20 OtherWorld wrote:On March 31 2015 01:19 TronJovolta wrote:
So seriously Terran gets nothing but the cyclone and nerfs? Holy fuck this is depressing. ... Read the OP again Oh I'm sorry did I not mention the tanks and bc's? Seems kinda negligible compared to all the gifts Zerg is getting, not to mention Protoss. Like I said, depressing. What? Protoss is getting hit the hardest with all the LotV changes. Immortal nerf, warp-in nerf. Then there's the fact there's really nothing in place to help Protoss deal with the economic changes, they will still struggle to defend several bases at once without dying/taking severe damage. Euh. The adept alone is pretty nice for drop defense i think. the ability is designed to make the unit highly mobile, the "aoe" upgrade will do fairly well vs bio. Then there is the disruptor which looks pretty cost effective on its own (in comparison to the colossus especially) I think protoss will be extremely fun in LOTV (just like zerg) Terran on the other hand has to hope for an interesting new unit i feel like...
Maybe, but ravagers destroying forcefields is incredibly scary since protoss can -not- hold a third without sentries; colossi being one range lower is a pretty significant nerf in the mid/lategame for seemingly no reason, adepts look decent vs marines and lings but awful vs roaches and marauders, and forcing people to be spread out is certainly going to hit protoss the hardest. Just from the looks of it, it seems like we'll have to go into the midgame with an advantage or have a really hard time defending 3-4 bases. I guess we will see, i'm sure we will be able to find abusive 2base timings to fall back to >.>
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On March 31 2015 02:07 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 02:03 KatatoniK wrote:On March 31 2015 01:45 TronJovolta wrote:On March 31 2015 01:20 OtherWorld wrote:On March 31 2015 01:19 TronJovolta wrote:
So seriously Terran gets nothing but the cyclone and nerfs? Holy fuck this is depressing. ... Read the OP again Oh I'm sorry did I not mention the tanks and bc's? Seems kinda negligible compared to all the gifts Zerg is getting, not to mention Protoss. Like I said, depressing. What? Protoss is getting hit the hardest with all the LotV changes. Immortal nerf, warp-in nerf. Then there's the fact there's really nothing in place to help Protoss deal with the economic changes, they will still struggle to defend several bases at once without dying/taking severe damage. Euh. The adept alone is pretty nice for drop defense i think. the ability is designed to make the unit highly mobile, the "aoe" upgrade will do fairly well vs bio. Then there is the disruptor which looks pretty cost effective on its own (in comparison to the colossus especially) I think protoss will be extremely fun in LOTV (just like zerg) Terran on the other hand has to hope for an interesting new unit i feel like...
I think people are under estimating how powerful warp BC's could be in LotV. Sure they'd suck in HotS because you only are defending ~4 bases by the time you can effectively get BC's out but in LotV it is very possible you'll need 6 bases or so by this time. So now that you don't even need vision to warp BC's across the map there may be huge harass potential here. Draw the main army away to his fringe bases while you just warp directly into the main and cause havok.
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Italy12248 Posts
Also, adepts only splash when they get a killing blow, so it looks like it will only be effective vs marines and lings. It's also a third twilight council research, so it's not that easy to get to either because blink is so important.
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On March 31 2015 02:12 Teoita wrote:
Also, adepts only splash when they get a killing blow, so it looks like it will only be effective vs marines and lings. It's also a third twilight council research, so it's not that easy to get to either because blink is so important.
True. Maybe they should consider putting it on the core with a TC required. Although with the Cyclone early game TvP may look completely different than we know it right now so maybe Stalkers won't be the go-to early game unit in the matchup.
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Do we know min. requirements?
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The things is, from playing on the map provided. I dunno, I didn't feel like adepts have a good enough DPS to deal with Marines+Medivacs. They attack kinda slow. The splash is a Twilight Upgrade so that means we have to choose between blink and splash too and even charge.
Disruptors are kinda crazy but 300 gas is a large investment, coupled with the new warp prism they can destroy mineral lines and escape but unless a P goes ham on Zealots getting a disruptor out quick enough to screw the Terran economy before midgame is highly unlikely.
But I'm just a gold leaguer so I most likely just suck pretty bad, but I still feel things are going to suck early on in beta for P players.
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Italy12248 Posts
Honestly if Adepts don't end up being a strong fighting unit against more than unupgraded marines and lings they will be completely worthless, since stalkers and zealots already accomplish that just fine. It's always possible to bump their base damage a bit though.
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On March 31 2015 02:12 Teoita wrote:
Also, adepts only splash when they get a killing blow, so it looks like it will only be effective vs marines and lings. It's also a third twilight council research, so it's not that easy to get to either because blink is so important.
I think it will be a lot less important vs terran.
The adept will take the role of the stalker for drop defense imo.
Against Zerg i think the disruptor will be quite usefull cause zerg units aren't really extremely splitable (at least not anywhere near bio lvl)
Obviously that's theorycrafting, but i think it could work out that way.
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Also, adepts only splash when they get a killing blow, so it looks like it will only be effective vs marines and lings. It's also a third twilight council research, so it's not that easy to get to either because blink is so important.
Especially since mobility is alot more important with the new economy. Adept only moves at 2.25 movement speed which makes it pretty immobile.
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On March 31 2015 02:23 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +Also, adepts only splash when they get a killing blow, so it looks like it will only be effective vs marines and lings. It's also a third twilight council research, so it's not that easy to get to either because blink is so important. Especially since mobility is alot more important with the new map. Adept only moves at 2.25 movement speed which makes it pretty immobile.
They have a pretty nice spell though 
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Italy12248 Posts
Why would adepts be better for drop defense when they dont have blink and can't snipe medivacs? Their teleport is delayed so it's much worse when you need to reposition things quickly to react to medivacs.
I agree that disruptors look good vs z, hopefully they will be good enough to make us rely less on forcefields.
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On March 31 2015 02:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 02:12 Teoita wrote:
Also, adepts only splash when they get a killing blow, so it looks like it will only be effective vs marines and lings. It's also a third twilight council research, so it's not that easy to get to either because blink is so important. I think it will be a lot less important vs terran. The adept will take the role of the stalker for drop defense imo. Against Zerg i think the disruptor will be quite usefull cause zerg units aren't really extremely splitable (at least not anywhere near bio lvl) Obviously that's theorycrafting, but i think it could work out that way.
Protoss would have to survive long enough to get a disruptor out. Roaches/Ravagers can appear pretty darn quick while 1 disruptor is a whopping 300 gas.
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On March 31 2015 02:25 KatatoniK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 02:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 31 2015 02:12 Teoita wrote:
Also, adepts only splash when they get a killing blow, so it looks like it will only be effective vs marines and lings. It's also a third twilight council research, so it's not that easy to get to either because blink is so important. I think it will be a lot less important vs terran. The adept will take the role of the stalker for drop defense imo. Against Zerg i think the disruptor will be quite usefull cause zerg units aren't really extremely splitable (at least not anywhere near bio lvl) Obviously that's theorycrafting, but i think it could work out that way. Protoss would have to survive long enough to get a disruptor out. Roaches/Ravagers can appear pretty darn quick while 1 disruptor is a whopping 300 gas.
Yeah the ravager won't stay the way it is now, there is no way.
Completely stupid unit
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Italy12248 Posts
Assuming you dont need ~7 sentries to defend a third base (they will be trash vs ravagers), 300 gas isn't actually that much. Protoss can afford that in PvT currently when opening oracle and still having a perfectly good early and midgame build. It's not like going dt's where you are paying 100 gas for the TC, 150 for the dark shrine, and then you have to invest hundreds of gas more in units that may or may not work.
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On March 31 2015 02:26 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 02:25 KatatoniK wrote:On March 31 2015 02:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 31 2015 02:12 Teoita wrote:
Also, adepts only splash when they get a killing blow, so it looks like it will only be effective vs marines and lings. It's also a third twilight council research, so it's not that easy to get to either because blink is so important. I think it will be a lot less important vs terran. The adept will take the role of the stalker for drop defense imo. Against Zerg i think the disruptor will be quite usefull cause zerg units aren't really extremely splitable (at least not anywhere near bio lvl) Obviously that's theorycrafting, but i think it could work out that way. Protoss would have to survive long enough to get a disruptor out. Roaches/Ravagers can appear pretty darn quick while 1 disruptor is a whopping 300 gas. Yeah the ravager won't stay the way it is now, there is no way. Completely stupid unit
Zerg in general is pretty stupid right now going off the map released so far. I played as Zerg for 1 game and found myself dying a little inside at how insane lurkers were, especially after their range upgrade.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On March 31 2015 02:27 Teoita wrote:
Assuming you dont need ~7 sentries to defend a third base, 300 gas isn't actually that much.
Yeah, big assumption. I guess depending on the map pool it might work. It'll be interesting to see how Protoss early game shapes up. You can't be as dependent on sentries because ravagers, but you're forced to expand quickly and often. Depending on the map pool I think Protoss might be fucked without doing all-ins.
Also someone do me a favour and try doing an adept all-in.
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On March 31 2015 02:30 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 02:27 Teoita wrote:
Assuming you dont need ~7 sentries to defend a third base, 300 gas isn't actually that much. Yeah, big assumption. I guess depending on the map pool it might work. It'll be interesting to see how Protoss early game shapes up. You can't be as dependent on sentries because ravagers, but you're forced to expand quickly and often. Depending on the map pool I think Protoss might be fucked.
Good thing they're releasing a beta for this then!
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On March 31 2015 02:31 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 02:30 Elentos wrote:On March 31 2015 02:27 Teoita wrote:
Assuming you dont need ~7 sentries to defend a third base, 300 gas isn't actually that much. Yeah, big assumption. I guess depending on the map pool it might work. It'll be interesting to see how Protoss early game shapes up. You can't be as dependent on sentries because ravagers, but you're forced to expand quickly and often. Depending on the map pool I think Protoss might be fucked. Good thing they're releasing a beta for this then!
Obviously. And I hope they test this a long time.
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Italy12248 Posts
The best idea i had for an adept allin was doing it off an oracle opener where you just stasis the ramp and then get up in the main using the shade. Once the trap is about to run out you teleport back out somewhere else after doing damage.
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So are stalkers supposed to be the counter for lurkers? Just like dragoons.
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EPT
