EPTWas the range of the Cyclone also fixed in the bug-fix patch? Didn't see anything about that.
it will be fixed in future updates
LotV Custom - Unofficial Fan Alpha - Page 16
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
it will be fixed in future updates | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
On November 29 2014 01:04 mishimaBeef wrote: Fire and forget? You need to be attentive as to whether the units are moving out of your lock range or if they are moving in to attack your cyclone. The range on them is so ridiculously large that its basically fire and forget. The only way to make that unit remotely interesting is if the lock range was 7 with no upgrade. Long enough to out range stalkers and immortals but short enough that they can't just way point them around while you macro. Still, I'm in no way a fan of the concept. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On November 29 2014 01:13 Destructicon wrote: The range on them is so ridiculously large that its basically fire and forget. The only way to make that unit remotely interesting is if the lock range was 7 with no upgrade. Long enough to out range stalkers and immortals but short enough that they can't just way point them around while you macro. Still, I'm in no way a fan of the concept. The thing is that you must control that cyclone to not get out of range.; Also cyclones are enouhgly expensive to be massed. And they don't work vs unit spams and fast units, i.e. marines / speedlings. Only protoss can have troubles against them, but I think protoss will have another new unit at tier1. Protoss can also open stargate to counter cyclones. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On November 29 2014 01:13 Destructicon wrote: The range on them is so ridiculously large that its basically fire and forget. The only way to make that unit remotely interesting is if the lock range was 7 with no upgrade. Long enough to out range stalkers and immortals but short enough that they can't just way point them around while you macro. Still, I'm in no way a fan of the concept. You mention changing unit stats. Speed of cyclone and range of cyclone can be tweaked. | ||
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On November 29 2014 01:21 Existor wrote: The thing is that you must control that cyclone to not get out of range.; Also cyclones are enouhgly expensive to be massed. And they don't work vs unit spams and fast units, i.e. marines / speedlings. Only protoss can have troubles against them, but I think protoss will have another new unit at tier1. Protoss can also open stargate to counter cyclones. Cyclones target air and have crazy DPS and speed. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 29 2014 01:32 Destructicon wrote: Also, two changes in particular in TvZ seem really bad. Marauders changing from 10 (20 vs armor) to 2 attacks of 5 each (10 each vs armor). Its obviously a nerf against armored units but its even bigger if you consider ultralisks will start with 1 more base armor and it will make Ultras even harder then they are now to kill with marines. I don't get the point of this, Ultras are already tanky enough and hard to deal with as bio and they require a ton of micro to do effectively. If this is some sort of an attempt to make terran switch into some other tech then its a poorly thought out one. Terran can't tech switch because of their production, to a certain extent, bio needs to be somewhat able to cope with higher tech units. Terrans don't have a problem mixing in 2-3factories of Thor/mine/hellbat/tanks in their bio currently. Marauders still probably counter Ultras with that, just less. (assumption) Mixing in Cyclones shouldn't be too hard. Even more, Cyclone's are designed to be an amazingly smooth transition unit for bio, because the gas:mineral ratio is so high, which allows bio to take fully use all of their economy (take all gases; spend the gasbank they build). Edit: This is a theorycraft, but basically what I think blizzard is intending. In general this is mainly a balance change, and I think blizzard is usually quite good getting balance right eventually. Whether the change is the most fun one, I don't know, but the relation between ultras and units that just kite them forever isn't that good to begin with. It's more like they are not fixing that, but not really making it worse I think. Edit2: Though the change in that relationship might be really way too big. 5(+5)x2 Marauders not only have double armor applied, and ultras not only have +1armor, but marauders also only upgrade with +1 then I guess? So 3-3ultras with the armor upgrade vs 3-3marauders would receive 12damage per attack, compared to 20 right now. | ||
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Cyclone upgrades with +1, should be +2. Cyclone cannot lock on enemy structures and move. Moving will break the lock. Hercs don't do damage to friendly units/structures (at least after the upgrade). Hercs upgrade with +2, should be +3. Marauder upgrades don't work properly. From my testing, I'm assuming only one of their shots gets upgraded, the other one always stays at 5(+5). And the upgrading should be adjusted to +1(+0) from +1(+1). --> All of those upgrade values that I say should be implemented follow the usual SC2 pattern: 10% of the unit's damage rounded to integers. Minimum of +1, maximum of +5. All of this in on the European Version. Only tested +1 upgrades. | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
On November 29 2014 01:32 Destructicon wrote: Also, two changes in particular in TvZ seem really bad. Marauders changing from 10 (20 vs armor) to 2 attacks of 5 each (10 each vs armor). Its obviously a nerf against armored units but its even bigger if you consider ultralisks will start with 1 more base armor and it will make Ultras even harder then they are now to kill with marines. I don't get the point of this, Ultras are already tanky enough and hard to deal with as bio and they require a ton of micro to do effectively. If this is some sort of an attempt to make terran switch into some other tech then its a poorly thought out one. Terran can't tech switch because of their production, to a certain extent, bio needs to be somewhat able to cope with higher tech units. Yeah man, god forbid you can't counter a Tier 3.5 Zerg unit with your Tier 1 infantry anymore. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
On November 29 2014 01:13 Destructicon wrote: The range on them is so ridiculously large that its basically fire and forget. The only way to make that unit remotely interesting is if the lock range was 7 with no upgrade. Long enough to out range stalkers and immortals but short enough that they can't just way point them around while you macro. Still, I'm in no way a fan of the concept. I don't know, right now the cyclone is really buggy right now but its far from what it looked like in blizzcon, is really hard the use and seems really easy to counter, I think the range upgrade is ok but it should come later, maybe with an armory or a fusion core, they are quite fragile, and are actually bad vs flying units, I wonder how it would change once its fixed but right now is not that strong, something I quite liked from this is the fact that the lock on comes off once you move, once they fix this something I would them to do is to reduce the cooldown but make it so lock on only last for 4-5 shots before having to use lock again, it makes it require a lot of atention and gives plenty of chances to counter attack the cyclone. Overall I really like the cyclone, it needs some tweaks for sure but is a greath concept | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On November 29 2014 04:10 SmileZerg wrote: Yeah man, god forbid you can't counter a Tier 3.5 Zerg unit with your Tier 1 infantry anymore. That would be a problem, if there was a single other terran answer to ling ultra w/ queen infestor aside from marauders. Building billion tanks with planetaries and ravens and missile turrets and battle cruisers doesn't count. | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
On November 29 2014 04:10 SmileZerg wrote: Yeah man, god forbid you can't counter a Tier 3.5 Zerg unit with your Tier 1 infantry anymore. That's facetious and you know it. If Terran tech units were any good we'd use them now. We have to hope the new units and buffs to old ones will suffice, or it will make an incredibly imba unit even more imba with less of a counter. Not to mention the timing of teching to Hive and producing the Ultralisks may no longer line up well with the economic opportunity where Terran sets down more Barracks and Tech labs, but that's probably thinking too hard about the meta. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On November 29 2014 04:23 Lexender wrote: I don't know, right now the cyclone is really buggy right now but its far from what it looked like in blizzcon, is really hard the use and seems really easy to counter, I think the range upgrade is ok but it should come later, maybe with an armory or a fusion core, they are quite fragile, and are actually bad vs flying units, I wonder how it would change once its fixed but right now is not that strong, something I quite liked from this is the fact that the lock on comes off once you move, once they fix this something I would them to do is to reduce the cooldown but make it so lock on only last for 4-5 shots before having to use lock again, it makes it require a lot of atention and gives plenty of chances to counter attack the cyclone. Overall I really like the cyclone, it needs some tweaks for sure but is a greath concept Right now range upgrade is bugged and does not works at all, as I remember. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On November 29 2014 04:10 SmileZerg wrote: Yeah man, god forbid you can't counter a Tier 3.5 Zerg unit with your Tier 1 infantry anymore. We need to get out of this stupid mentality of "my T3 of course should hard counter your T1 units!!" It's ridiculous. What matters is how the gameplay and balance works out. Rest is entirely irrelevant. | ||
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Bastinian
Serbia177 Posts
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VegaMatt
United Kingdom11 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On November 29 2014 05:33 Bastinian wrote: I like this very much! As far as I can say, LotV will look like Brood War,with massive base spreading all over the map! But what I would say that maps for more players should be way bigger, or else its impossible to play. I still like the idea of depleting mineral yields (the visuals are already there). Patches are still 1,500, but at 1,000 the yield may drop down to 4 or 3, and at 500 it drops down to 3 or 2. Gives the incentive to expand but also you can still maintain income if you're going for an all-in. | ||
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