• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:13
CET 02:13
KST 10:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League64Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
[Recap] 0-6 Defeat for Mong's Team Bot on ladder Young Players Tournament Announced by SOOP Starcraft player cRuZa Passed away. Battle.net abbreviations list
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9799 users

[Patch 7.19] Post Worlds 2017 General Discussion - Page 3

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 10 11 12 Next All
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
September 28 2017 11:33 GMT
#41
On September 28 2017 14:25 Slusher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2017 09:59 Gahlo wrote:
On September 28 2017 09:54 Slusher wrote:
How the fuck is like 3 hours of data from non peak hours enough to make a hotfix? I mean she def got off too easy but if your explanation is you wanted to see the new playstyle in action first the timing seems really silly.

There's a certain amount of time after patches get finalized conceptually and cleaned up codewise and pushed. They might have put the Janna changes through thinking it wasn't enough already and worked on this in case their feeling was right.


They put out a blog post using the reasoning I questioned

I'd be more inclined to just call it PR bullshit. When you accidently buff one of the strongest and most disliked to play against champions you darn well have some kind of excuse better than "big sorry".
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
September 28 2017 13:19 GMT
#42
classic riot taking a really smooth and cohesive kit in xin and completely shitting on it, feels so clunky to play now and the animations are fucking hilariously bad. Another level 7 champ that ill never touch again, too bad.

He's just another generic AD caster now that can blow one person up, and then dies instead of the late game drain tank he's supposed to be. Before you could go tank, bruiser or ad, now you can only go ad and maybe bruiser if your team has a lot of damage, but its suboptimal.

its hilarious that you can't AA while W is being cast it feels like you're playing a shitty version of kayn or something, WHY GIVE AN AA BASED CHAMP A LONG ANIMATION ABILITY THAT STOPS AAs LOL
I come in for the scraps
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4186 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-28 14:10:58
September 28 2017 14:10 GMT
#43
On September 28 2017 22:19 VayneAuthority wrote:
classic riot taking a really smooth and cohesive kit in xin and completely shitting on it, feels so clunky to play now and the animations are fucking hilariously bad. Another level 7 champ that ill never touch again, too bad.

He's just another generic AD caster now that can blow one person up, and then dies instead of the late game drain tank he's supposed to be. Before you could go tank, bruiser or ad, now you can only go ad and maybe bruiser if your team has a lot of damage, but its suboptimal.

its hilarious that you can't AA while W is being cast it feels like you're playing a shitty version of kayn or something, WHY GIVE AN AA BASED CHAMP A LONG ANIMATION ABILITY THAT STOPS AAs LOL

I watched few Dominate's games on xin today, he looked kind of all right. Also both AS and AD builds worked for him, however, I agree that he feels suboptimal with tank items
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-28 14:43:33
September 28 2017 14:43 GMT
#44
On September 28 2017 23:10 M2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2017 22:19 VayneAuthority wrote:
classic riot taking a really smooth and cohesive kit in xin and completely shitting on it, feels so clunky to play now and the animations are fucking hilariously bad. Another level 7 champ that ill never touch again, too bad.

He's just another generic AD caster now that can blow one person up, and then dies instead of the late game drain tank he's supposed to be. Before you could go tank, bruiser or ad, now you can only go ad and maybe bruiser if your team has a lot of damage, but its suboptimal.

its hilarious that you can't AA while W is being cast it feels like you're playing a shitty version of kayn or something, WHY GIVE AN AA BASED CHAMP A LONG ANIMATION ABILITY THAT STOPS AAs LOL

I watched few Dominate's games on xin today, he looked kind of all right. Also both AS and AD builds worked for him, however, I agree that he feels suboptimal with tank items


I can't speak to his power level but just playing him in general feels really shitty, you only have 1 option basically, lead with W, all in, then W again if they are getting away. They didnt make xin less binary, just made his kit clunkier and lacking in build options.
I come in for the scraps
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-28 14:53:04
September 28 2017 14:52 GMT
#45
How is the kit clunkier when they just moved his old W active to E and passive to his well passive. If it's that bad just dont use W and you have old Xin without armor shred but with a better ultimate in return.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
lilwisper
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2515 Posts
September 28 2017 16:04 GMT
#46
On September 28 2017 14:22 phyvo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2017 00:44 lilwisper wrote:
On September 27 2017 18:04 phyvo wrote:
After goofing around with the evelyn rework it basically feels like this: If you hit the short range Q skillshot you feel like a champion, if you don't, well, you don't. The Q skillshot is hugely tied to your damage and ability to gap close (hitting Q adds 195 + 1.05 AP damage which is more than the hate spikes combined). Since Q is the best way to proc W missing Q means your W does nothing which means you can't get in range of E and all you can do is derp around.

Also, it's kind of hilarious that you get a movespeed boost with E because unless you're spacing your Qs for sheen you are just running around slapping their face with weak AAs at that point. It often feels like it doesn't really help.

Skilling up after Q is really awkward... Leveling up E feels like it gives pittance for damage (and damage is all you get) and leveling W only really gives you charm duration, which you only get with the full curse, which you pretty much only get once per fight.

R feels like garbage unless they're in the bonus damage threshold and you don't even get a cho-like indicator for that.

The eggs are definitely all in the "I hope I hit my Q to proc my W and let me do everything else" basket.


I watched a quick vid of Redmercy playing Eve so I don't have any hands on experience, but I thought I heard him say you get a range increase on W. Since it doesn't break your post 6 stealth, wouldn't that be the thing to level after Q?


Yeah, I wasn't correct, sorry. W second might be even be right for PBE Eve, but it's so hard to know with how awkward the current kit feels. Leveling W actually gets you several things: range, 10% mr shred, 16s cd goes to 10s cd, +200 monster damage, +1s charm duration. But the WQ pairing itself is so awkward to use and none of that changes when skilling it up. Now, on your point about the range, range is useful if you've got good movespeed bonuses and are in the process of rotating/flanking someone. It lets you charge W early rather than walking up to them and then starting the W. But that's literally the only use I've found for extra range because camo lets you sneak up to level 1 W range anyways.

(another thing I got wrong: there is an indicator for your ultimate that tells you when they're below 30%... but, especially early game, that doesn't mean that they will die. So it's kind of not actually useful.)

I don't bother with Redmercy, but Moon was playing PBE Eve today and he had some good thoughts. He said he would play it again tomorrow but seemed a little cheesed when he signed off.

Anyways, the kit is slightly frustrating to play in so many small ways you kind of have to experience it yourself.


I totally understand. Some things you have to experience for yourself. I only mentioned Redmercy since he's a diamond level player that seems to make reasonable vids (ie: no 6 static siv builds). I saw WingsOfDeath use it as well. Both are not junglers of course but I saw them both skill the W second and seemed to do well with it.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
September 28 2017 16:57 GMT
#47
On September 28 2017 23:52 Jek wrote:
How is the kit clunkier when they just moved his old W active to E and passive to his well passive. If it's that bad just dont use W and you have old Xin without armor shred but with a better ultimate in return.



Due to his CDR reduction, having two abilities tied into one actually hurts flexibility. you cant gain attack speed without also wasting your gap closer. Add to that the passive damage downgrade to his Q, and the slow neutering on his E, and there isn't really any way to play xin without playing around his W anymore.
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
September 28 2017 18:50 GMT
#48
New way to play Xin is to just build AD and kill towers with a single Q.


lol
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-28 23:13:08
September 28 2017 23:12 GMT
#49
Well im gonna be sad to see my ornn build go when runes go away. :< . Tank ornn winrate: 40%, Trinity rapidfire ornn winrate: 78.9%
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8939 Posts
September 29 2017 06:52 GMT
#50
On September 29 2017 03:50 Jek wrote:
New way to play Xin is to just build AD and kill towers with a single Q.
https://clips.twitch.tv/GlutenFreeSteamyRamenTheThing

lol

WTF WAS THAT
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
September 29 2017 08:40 GMT
#51
On September 29 2017 15:52 evilfatsh1t wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2017 03:50 Jek wrote:
New way to play Xin is to just build AD and kill towers with a single Q.
https://clips.twitch.tv/GlutenFreeSteamyRamenTheThing

lol

WTF WAS THAT

His Q is bonus physical damage: 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 (+ 40% bonus AD). It probably wasn't flagged to not apply the damage to structures.
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
September 29 2017 11:07 GMT
#52
My guess is it's lethality working on towers and the huge amount he has combined with bonus damage on autos from Q and his passive. Classic lethality users are not auto based (or have an auto-enhancer) so just how disgusting lethality is on towers have sorta gone under the radar.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
September 29 2017 11:24 GMT
#53
His old Q could do the same iirc. It's just lethality working on towers as Jek said. Noone went full damage Xin because they aren't idiots but QT embraces his inabilities
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
September 29 2017 12:31 GMT
#54
Another Janna hotfix today. Oh Riot... :D
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
September 29 2017 13:10 GMT
#55
On September 29 2017 21:31 Jek wrote:
Another Janna hotfix today. Oh Riot... :D

[image loading]
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
September 29 2017 14:17 GMT
#56
Feel like someone on the balance team should be getting some harsh words. Shipping a "nerf" that's just a massive buff then having to hotfix twice to actually nerf the champ screams incompetence or negligence.
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-29 14:24:13
September 29 2017 14:18 GMT
#57
On September 29 2017 23:17 Numy wrote:
Feel like someone on the balance team should be getting some harsh words. Shipping a "nerf" that's just a massive buff then having to hotfix twice to actually nerf the champ screams incompetence or negligence.

Also in terms of hilarious balance changes lately, Orianna.

Get nerfed into the ground where it feels like you're lagging to play the champion. Revert most of that nerf, then randomly buff the champion. Looking forward to it getting gutted soon.
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-29 14:31:50
September 29 2017 14:27 GMT
#58
Surprised after so so many years of bizarre and backwards changes some people still not realized riots balance team is clueless and shoots in the dark when doing patches.
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
September 29 2017 14:31 GMT
#59
Like LL or Reddit is any better ...
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
September 29 2017 14:42 GMT
#60
On September 29 2017 23:31 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Like LL or Reddit is any better ...

I never quite got this response. You can't excuse people being paid to do a job doing it poorly by the fact that randoms that aren't paid to do it are not good at giving suggestions or changes. If that was the case then you could never ever criticize anyone at their job since there will always be someone worse at it that isn't being employed to do it.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 10 11 12 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
08:40
Best Games of SC
Serral vs Neeb
Reynor vs Clem
Maru vs GgMaChine
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft460
ViBE168
RuFF_SC2 128
SpeCial 42
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 22
Mong 16
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm169
canceldota124
LuMiX0
League of Legends
JimRising 780
Other Games
summit1g9717
FrodaN3640
C9.Mang0259
ToD138
Trikslyr79
CosmosSc2 17
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1875
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 27
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 30
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21513
League of Legends
• Nemesis1977
• Jankos1733
• Scarra1231
Other Games
• imaqtpie789
Upcoming Events
FEL
8h 47m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
8h 47m
Replay Cast
21h 47m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 10h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.