EPT2017 Esports General Discussion - Page 38
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On October 19 2017 02:10 GrandInquisitor wrote: Earlier I tried to be nice and pretend that no one could possibly be so ridiculous as to think that a team's record is relevant in whether or not they get a franchise spot. But your post makes this very awkward. I genuinely struggle to see your point here - you think that NA skill level will drop because there is no longer a team named IMT in it? Because, what, the IMT players just all say, "Ahh shucks let's pack it up and start downloading Overwatch"? Maybe you actually really think that all of IMT's players are now banned from ever playing NA LCS again. I never said the record was wht the decision was made. It should factor in though. I want to want IMT vs DIG not TL vs EF. Good players don't make a good team. Case in point, look at what website you're on... how much money has TL funneled into star players to circle the relegation drain? IMT, C9, and TSM have been successful through rebuilds multiple times. Its about environment, management and support staff. Losing that is a huge loss for the league's quality of product and the fan. And as a fan i am frankly quite disappointed with the decision. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9298 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On October 19 2017 02:23 Sent. wrote: I think NA skill level will drop because TL and EFX managements kept doing weird stuff and there is nothing indicating they'll stop after the franchising. Now that the threat of relegation is gone, they can continue to field big name shitters to keep their fans entertained. So perfectly in line with what NA has always done lol. Why wasn't NA a powerhouse the last two years with all these good teams coming in? Why has their skill level stayed practically the same? There are systemic reasons for NA being bad and having one or two different teams is not going to change that. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
But I guess NALCS is the Froggen vs Piglet show now. Yippee. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On October 19 2017 02:18 iCanada wrote: I never said the record was wht the decision was made. It should factor in though. I want to want IMT vs DIG not TL vs EF. Good players don't make a good team. Case in point, look at what website you're on... how much money has TL funneled into star players to circle the relegation drain? IMT, C9, and TSM have been successful through rebuilds multiple times. Its about environment, management and support staff. Losing that is a huge loss for the league's quality of product and the fan. And as a fan i am frankly quite disappointed with the decision. Yeah, your argument actually helps me, not you. Teams are not nearly as consistent as you imagine. IMT finished 7th earlier this year. C9 alternates between barely making gauntlet and placing second in the split. CLG almost got relegated, won the split, and then barely made gauntlet. TL went from top 3 to bottom 3 within a year. P1 went from 3rd to relegation. Literally only one team in the history of NA LCS has ever stayed at mostly the same position, and it's TSM. You even said it yourself. Ssumday/Flame/Impact coming to NA vastly improved the talent level. What, did they improve top lane talent because of their impact on "environment, management and support staff"? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On October 18 2017 23:18 Numy wrote: I dont see why. TL is a storied team with results across games and a long history. They have finanicial backing, success and history in league. But they're not. If Steve did the garbage he did the past year or two (not to mention before that) and he didn't have backing from an outside organization, the team would 100% be gone. It's a complete joke they're not willing to give Dig a shot with the new management, but TL gets a pass. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9298 Posts
On October 19 2017 02:25 Numy wrote: So perfectly in line with what NA has always done lol. Why wasn't NA a powerhouse the last two years with all these good teams coming in? Why has their skill level stayed practically the same? There are systemic reasons for NA being bad and having one or two different teams is not going to change that. Two years ago TSM's roster included Dyrus, Santorin, WildTurtle and Lustboy. Do you think that team had practically the same skill level as the current roster? Teams like CLG, C9 or IMT showed they're willing to get rid of big names in order to improve. Can you say the same about TL? | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On October 19 2017 03:00 zer0das wrote: But they're not. If Steve did the garbage he did the past year or two (not to mention before that) and he didn't have backing from an outside organization, the team would 100% be gone. It's a complete joke they're not willing to give Dig a shot with the new management, but TL gets a pass. DIG literally never succeeded in LCS. The TL 4th place joke was a meme because they were legit top 4 for years. It'd be like kicking out KT from LCK. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On October 19 2017 03:01 Sent. wrote: Two years ago TSM's roster included Dyrus, Santorin, WildTurtle and Lustboy. Do you think that team had practically the same skill level as the current roster? Teams like CLG, C9 or IMT showed they're willing to get rid of big names in order to improve. Can you say the same about TL? Relatively? I'm not sure I agree with that. That roster was pretty good. This roster is practically the same compared to everyone else. So while it may be stronger now it's not really improved any faster or better than rest of the competition. IMT started LCS by buying up the biggest western duo there was in RO/Huni along with known NA talent. Don't really see how that's not in line with picking up big names. I think NA was better whan we had LMQ and TL fighting it up with CLG,C9 and TSM. There are more big international names now with more money but is the relative competition any better? Not sure about that, maybe it is maybe it isn't. Tough to tell. As for Steve from TL being shady and doing shit the last 2 years. How can you even say that in comparison to Coast/Apex guys? They the ones managing Dignitas now with 76ers backing. If anything it makes perfect sense to axe them. If Dignitas completely changed management or was willing to completely revamp with a set plan then it's a bit strange. Depends who is coming instead I guess. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On October 19 2017 01:21 GrandInquisitor wrote: I am genuinely confused as to why you hate EF so much. As far as I know, it's a totally fine team. It doesn't do very well, but has a lot of fans, works a lot with them, puts out great content, and the owner is super invested in his players and spent a lot on them compared to other teams (e.g., gaming house, coaching, etc.). That seems like a textbook kind of team you want, minus, you know, the actual winning, but surely you didn't think that franchise applications were going to be based off of W/L record. Echo Fox is 3 things: Froggen nostalgia, stream meme drsem team(which doesn't exist anymore), and Rick Fox cult of personality. What does the team do to work with fans? What content do they put out? How is Rick Fox's investment in the players special? Every time I ask these things, people never respond. Lastly, they've been fucking trash. The big criticism I've seen against franchising is that teams won't try to win - and yet that's what EF has been doing basically since they entered the league. I think they're going to continue the MO of being a shit team that doesn't try. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 19 2017 03:05 Ansibled wrote: What happened to that Riot streaming partnership they announced anyway? Wasn't there supposed to be something by now? Only other person asking important questions... | ||
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Skitter
United States899 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On October 19 2017 03:22 cLutZ wrote: Only other person asking important questions... It's called google. https://dotesports.com/business/riot-late-implement-bamtech-16590 | ||
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Sent.
Poland9298 Posts
On October 19 2017 03:12 Numy wrote: Relatively? I'm not sure I agree with that. That roster was pretty good. This roster is practically the same compared to everyone else. So while it may be stronger now it's not really improved any faster or better than rest of the competition. IMT started LCS by buying up the biggest western duo there was in RO/Huni along with known NA talent. Don't really see how that's not in line with picking up big names. I think NA was better whan we had LMQ and TL fighting it up with CLG,C9 and TSM. There are more big international names now with more money but is the relative competition any better? Not sure about that, maybe it is maybe it isn't. Tough to tell. As for Steve from TL being shady and doing shit the last 2 years. How can you even say that in comparison to Coast/Apex guys? They the ones managing Dignitas now with 76ers backing. If anything it makes perfect sense to axe them. If Dignitas completely changed management or was willing to completely revamp with a set plan then it's a bit strange. Depends who is coming instead I guess. Was trying to say the good teams are willing to kick the big names if the names don't pull their weigh, not that buying big names is something bad or that you have to build a team from scratch. I guess I can agree with kicking Dignitas, it was surprising but justifiable. I can also understand keeping TL despite its self-destructive tendencies. But kicking IMT while keeping EFX is just mind-boggling. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 19 2017 03:26 Gahlo wrote: It's called google. https://dotesports.com/business/riot-late-implement-bamtech-16590 In other words, this is all probably just shuffling deckchairs atm. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
All the other moves have been rather self-explanatory. | ||
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