On December 22 2016 11:44 evilfatsh1t wrote: i dont get why people think dodging is an answer. there was another thread in this site where someone asked how often everyone dodges and i was amazed to see how proudly so many stated they dodged. stop being pussies and just play the game, even if youre shit at the champ or role you get. how do you expect to improve at the game if youre only playing the same 3-4 champions in the same role for an entire season. yeah you hit diamond, but that doesnt make you a diamond player. it just means you can play at diamond level ONLY when you get the champs you want. every other time youre a gold player.
amazing how lol branched off from dota but the mentality of lol players are so different. no dota player would dodge a game because they didnt get mid lane or their invoker got stolen. play every lane, role, champ etc and learn the game properly. korean pros/challengers are correct when they say "mains" are stupid. you cant be a good player when youre only good at 1 champ/role
I'm guessing you don't work or are still in school or something? No one in their right mind would have this attitude with limited free time.
Dodging is necessary if you're trying to climb on a time budget. I don't have time to waste 30+ minutes with some clown that mains volibear jungle but got autofilled support. Just an example that happens often but there are a plethora of reasons to dodge in this game
I have a kid, a full time job and I don't dodge. I don't understand why someone on limited time would dodge. If I dodge I simply don't have time to play because I am, as you say, on limited time. Do you really think people can climb by never playing the game?
This is like saying you should never fold in poker if you need to make money fast because "Do you really think people can make money by never playing hands?"
No, because expected Elo from skill difference in League varies way more than EV in poker. Even if you're crushing the game you should still fold 60% pre, but if you're crushing LoL there's only a 1% need to dodge.
On December 22 2016 11:44 evilfatsh1t wrote: i dont get why people think dodging is an answer. there was another thread in this site where someone asked how often everyone dodges and i was amazed to see how proudly so many stated they dodged. stop being pussies and just play the game, even if youre shit at the champ or role you get. how do you expect to improve at the game if youre only playing the same 3-4 champions in the same role for an entire season. yeah you hit diamond, but that doesnt make you a diamond player. it just means you can play at diamond level ONLY when you get the champs you want. every other time youre a gold player.
amazing how lol branched off from dota but the mentality of lol players are so different. no dota player would dodge a game because they didnt get mid lane or their invoker got stolen. play every lane, role, champ etc and learn the game properly. korean pros/challengers are correct when they say "mains" are stupid. you cant be a good player when youre only good at 1 champ/role
I'm guessing you don't work or are still in school or something? No one in their right mind would have this attitude with limited free time.
Dodging is necessary if you're trying to climb on a time budget. I don't have time to waste 30+ minutes with some clown that mains volibear jungle but got autofilled support. Just an example that happens often but there are a plethora of reasons to dodge in this game
learning how to play a champion doesnt teach you how to play the game. and for those who argue that they simply want to enjoy the game and dont want to "waste their time" with feeders/tilters etc, why are you even playing ranked then? what you claim to want and what youre doing are in conflict
For the first sentence, no, it doesn't, but playing all champs doesn't teach you that either. As for the second part, wtf does that even mean.
On December 23 2016 09:42 evilfatsh1t wrote: and for those who argue that they simply want to enjoy the game and dont want to "waste their time" with feeders/tilters etc, why are you even playing ranked then? what you claim to want and what youre doing are in conflict.
No, I dodge norms for the same reasons I dodge ranked games. The game doesn't suddenly become more/less enjoyable based on the queue you decide to play that day.
if you dodge norms as well you shouldnt be playing any competitive game that isnt 1v1. i understand lol was meant to be a more "casual" game, but straight up refusing to play games because you dont like the mentality of your teammates or somethings is just childish.
On December 23 2016 11:35 Fildun wrote: For the first sentence, no, it doesn't, but playing all champs doesn't teach you that either. As for the second part, wtf does that even mean.
what i meant was if youre looking to play lol strictly because you want enjoyment, then youre playing the wrong game. the nature of these games are that they are competitive and they involve a lot of players. if you cant deal with that aspect of the game and your only solution is to dodge then my guess is you have a weak mentality and you probably dodge struggles in real life as well. embrace the competitiveness and play ranked, accepting the fact that there are people who will troll/feed/tilt etc and play your way through that difficulty, or let go of any competitive mindset you have and play normals like a true casual. you cant have it both ways, thats just being immature.
believe it or not, dodging isnt something that just affects you. you can justify youre reasons for dodging all you want and in the end it is your choice to make regardless of what people think, but im just annoyed because im sick to death of seeng a dodger every 5 champ selects, leading me to have to wait another 5 mins for a queue. And no matter how much i try and empathise with dodgers, in the end to me the problem just seems to be they just dont have the right mentality to even play these games if they cant handle having toxic teammates once in a while
On December 23 2016 09:42 evilfatsh1t wrote: and for those who argue that they simply want to enjoy the game and dont want to "waste their time" with feeders/tilters etc, why are you even playing ranked then? what you claim to want and what youre doing are in conflict.
No, I dodge norms for the same reasons I dodge ranked games. The game doesn't suddenly become more/less enjoyable based on the queue you decide to play that day.
if you dodge norms as well you shouldnt be playing any competitive game that isnt 1v1. i understand lol was meant to be a more "casual" game, but straight up refusing to play games because you dont like the mentality of your teammates or somethings is just childish.
On December 23 2016 11:35 Fildun wrote: For the first sentence, no, it doesn't, but playing all champs doesn't teach you that either. As for the second part, wtf does that even mean.
what i meant was if youre looking to play lol strictly because you want enjoyment, then youre playing the wrong game. the nature of these games are that they are competitive and they involve a lot of players. if you cant deal with that aspect of the game and your only solution is to dodge then my guess is you have a weak mentality and you probably dodge struggles in real life as well. embrace the competitiveness and play ranked, accepting the fact that there are people who will troll/feed/tilt etc and play your way through that difficulty, or let go of any competitive mindset you have and play normals like a true casual. you cant have it both ways, thats just being immature.
believe it or not, dodging isnt something that just affects you. you can justify youre reasons for dodging all you want and in the end it is your choice to make regardless of what people think, but im just annoyed because im sick to death of seeng a dodger every 5 champ selects, leading me to have to wait another 5 mins for a queue. And no matter how much i try and empathise with dodgers, in the end to me the problem just seems to be they just dont have the right mentality to even play these games if they cant handle having toxic teammates once in a while
Sounds to me like you like to play a game you don't have the adequate time for and are projecting your frustrations onto other people.
On December 22 2016 11:44 evilfatsh1t wrote: i dont get why people think dodging is an answer. there was another thread in this site where someone asked how often everyone dodges and i was amazed to see how proudly so many stated they dodged. stop being pussies and just play the game, even if youre shit at the champ or role you get. how do you expect to improve at the game if youre only playing the same 3-4 champions in the same role for an entire season. yeah you hit diamond, but that doesnt make you a diamond player. it just means you can play at diamond level ONLY when you get the champs you want. every other time youre a gold player.
amazing how lol branched off from dota but the mentality of lol players are so different. no dota player would dodge a game because they didnt get mid lane or their invoker got stolen. play every lane, role, champ etc and learn the game properly. korean pros/challengers are correct when they say "mains" are stupid. you cant be a good player when youre only good at 1 champ/role
I'm guessing you don't work or are still in school or something? No one in their right mind would have this attitude with limited free time.
Dodging is necessary if you're trying to climb on a time budget. I don't have time to waste 30+ minutes with some clown that mains volibear jungle but got autofilled support. Just an example that happens often but there are a plethora of reasons to dodge in this game
I have a kid, a full time job and I don't dodge. I don't understand why someone on limited time would dodge. If I dodge I simply don't have time to play because I am, as you say, on limited time. Do you really think people can climb by never playing the game?
This is like saying you should never fold in poker if you need to make money fast because "Do you really think people can make money by never playing hands?"
No, because expected Elo from skill difference in League varies way more than EV in poker. Even if you're crushing the game you should still fold 60% pre, but if you're crushing LoL there's only a 1% need to dodge.
Not the point of the analogy. The guy I was responding to claimed that if you are short on time, you don't have time to dodge because you don't gain LP if you are dodging. This is exactly the same as saying, if you are short on time at the poker table, you don't have time to fold because you don't make money by folding. In truth, of course, on balance you will net positive Elo and cash if you consistently dodge and fold at the appropriate times. Of course, no sane human dodges in League as much as you should be folding in poker, but the point is the same. If it is negative EV to stay in the hand, you fold, and if your expected LP in champ select is less than -3, then you should dodge.
The case for dodging is actually stronger in League than in poker because you don't lose MMR when you dodge, so even though you're losing LP you're going to gain that LP back faster. It's as if every blind you fold gets a portion added back as a free bonus to future pots you win.
On December 23 2016 09:42 evilfatsh1t wrote: and for those who argue that they simply want to enjoy the game and dont want to "waste their time" with feeders/tilters etc, why are you even playing ranked then? what you claim to want and what youre doing are in conflict.
No, I dodge norms for the same reasons I dodge ranked games. The game doesn't suddenly become more/less enjoyable based on the queue you decide to play that day.
if you dodge norms as well you shouldnt be playing any competitive game that isnt 1v1. i understand lol was meant to be a more "casual" game, but straight up refusing to play games because you dont like the mentality of your teammates or somethings is just childish.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that the kind of people who say stuff like "it is childish that others prefer to avoid the company of obnoxious people", are not infrequently the people that those others are trying to avoid.
This is kind of buttressed by your subsequent complaint that people keep dodging in your lobbies. People dodging champ select is honestly, like #4715 on the list of problems that the average League player faces, but if it's an extremely above-average problem for you, consider whether it is something that is common to all your lobbies that is causing that problem.
You could not say anything and pick only meta champs and still get tons of dodges. When I am solo most of the time it takes 2/3 tries to get a game going and that just makes the wait times awful.
On December 23 2016 19:35 nafta wrote: You could not say anything and pick only meta champs and still get tons of dodges. When I am solo most of the time it takes 2/3 tries to get a game going and that just makes the wait times awful.
^ this. its bad enough having to wait through multiple matchfinding attempts because someone doesnt accept, but then having the lobby broken because someone dodges halfway through the pick phase is just frustrating.
i dont talk in lobby and hardly in games. most of my communication is done through pings anyways. my biggest annoyance with lol comes from something that is actually controlled by players. theres no point complaining about the state of the game because its beyond my control anyway. players dodging however is a conscious decision they are making that is ruining my experience, and for what? you get to keep your mmr and a marginally better chance of winning in your next lobby at the cost of minor lp loss and a loser's mentality? id rather not be a pussy thanks
On December 23 2016 09:42 evilfatsh1t wrote: and for those who argue that they simply want to enjoy the game and dont want to "waste their time" with feeders/tilters etc, why are you even playing ranked then? what you claim to want and what youre doing are in conflict.
No, I dodge norms for the same reasons I dodge ranked games. The game doesn't suddenly become more/less enjoyable based on the queue you decide to play that day.
if you dodge norms as well you shouldnt be playing any competitive game that isnt 1v1. i understand lol was meant to be a more "casual" game, but straight up refusing to play games because you dont like the mentality of your teammates or somethings is just childish.
On December 23 2016 11:35 Fildun wrote: For the first sentence, no, it doesn't, but playing all champs doesn't teach you that either. As for the second part, wtf does that even mean.
what i meant was if youre looking to play lol strictly because you want enjoyment, then youre playing the wrong game. the nature of these games are that they are competitive and they involve a lot of players. if you cant deal with that aspect of the game and your only solution is to dodge then my guess is you have a weak mentality and you probably dodge struggles in real life as well. embrace the competitiveness and play ranked, accepting the fact that there are people who will troll/feed/tilt etc and play your way through that difficulty, or let go of any competitive mindset you have and play normals like a true casual. you cant have it both ways, thats just being immature.
believe it or not, dodging isnt something that just affects you. you can justify youre reasons for dodging all you want and in the end it is your choice to make regardless of what people think, but im just annoyed because im sick to death of seeng a dodger every 5 champ selects, leading me to have to wait another 5 mins for a queue. And no matter how much i try and empathise with dodgers, in the end to me the problem just seems to be they just dont have the right mentality to even play these games if they cant handle having toxic teammates once in a while
Sounds to me like you like to play a game you don't have the adequate time for and are projecting your frustrations onto other people.
projecting frustrations yes. because im playing a game i dont have time for no. i just hate seeing people with such weak mentality justifying their actions when they could just grow up, take what comes at them like a man and move on.
@GI, I understand the point you're making, all I'm saying is that the occasions where dodging is +EV are so rare that the analogy, while true, doesn't really say that much.
@fizz dude, if I'm playing League for enjoyment I'm doing it wrong? And why is dodging a disco nunu in normals wrong as well?
Wasting ~30 minutes not having fun on a recreational activity is not being grown up or a man, it's being irrational. When you're just playing the game as an amateur forcing youself into something unfun is straight up silly, unlike meeting a deadline at work this isn't something you have to do.
I can understand the frustration for wasting time in queue, but people usually have a good reason for dodging. Having someone who never play role X but got autofilled into it and nobody to trade role with is way more likely to ruin your and everyone else game experience than waiting a few more minutes for another queue pop.
When I dodge I would do anyway even if it meant losing even more IP and MMR than how it currently is. If I for some reason would forget to pick a secondary and get jungle (a role I hate) and nobody to trade it with you can be 100% sure I'm going to bail, I'm not going to put my team through what might as well be a 20 minute 4v5 game likewise if I have to support a shitty ADC I'm not going to have fun and we're going to lose lane hard 90% of the time ruining the game for our teammates too.
Yeah, I might be selfish but honestly I dont care. I play the game to have fun and if I'm not going to have fun or I'm going to be the reason (jungling) nobody else on my team is going to have fun I will dodge.
The arguement that you should play everything to improve is silly when you want to learn something you focus on individual pieces at a time, not everything at once. I'd never force the kids I coach badminton to practice smash, clears, backhands, footwork, netplay, crossplay, around the head and tactics all at once it'd do more harm than good.
I know a lot of you played before the dodge timer penalty existed and it was terrible how long it could take to get a game.
Currently, most games I dodge are not specifically disco Nunu but a "no support champs" into support Garen or "can't jungle" into jungle Janna. Yeah, they're baiting a dodge and they win. If you think it's selfish to dodge that shit, okay but I don't want to play that game.
And for fuck's sake, evilfatshit if your shift button is broken you can hit the caps lock button then hit it again to turn it off. There's also a second shift button if that option is too hard. You also have an enter key to break up your walls of text.
*If Krugs weren't worth so much xp I'd hate them also.
On December 22 2016 11:44 evilfatsh1t wrote: i dont get why people think dodging is an answer. there was another thread in this site where someone asked how often everyone dodges and i was amazed to see how proudly so many stated they dodged. stop being pussies and just play the game, even if youre shit at the champ or role you get. how do you expect to improve at the game if youre only playing the same 3-4 champions in the same role for an entire season. yeah you hit diamond, but that doesnt make you a diamond player. it just means you can play at diamond level ONLY when you get the champs you want. every other time youre a gold player.
amazing how lol branched off from dota but the mentality of lol players are so different. no dota player would dodge a game because they didnt get mid lane or their invoker got stolen. play every lane, role, champ etc and learn the game properly. korean pros/challengers are correct when they say "mains" are stupid. you cant be a good player when youre only good at 1 champ/role
I'm guessing you don't work or are still in school or something? No one in their right mind would have this attitude with limited free time.
Dodging is necessary if you're trying to climb on a time budget. I don't have time to waste 30+ minutes with some clown that mains volibear jungle but got autofilled support. Just an example that happens often but there are a plethora of reasons to dodge in this game
I have a kid, a full time job and I don't dodge. I don't understand why someone on limited time would dodge. If I dodge I simply don't have time to play because I am, as you say, on limited time. Do you really think people can climb by never playing the game?
This is like saying you should never fold in poker if you need to make money fast because "Do you really think people can make money by never playing hands?"
I said that if I dodge I don't have the time to play and thus I get no chance to climb (or not climb as well). A much fairer poker comparison would be to claim that you can win at poker while never sitting at a poker table.
On December 24 2016 05:37 JonnyLaw wrote: I know a lot of you played before the dodge timer penalty existed and it was terrible how long it could take to get a game.
Currently, most games I dodge are not specifically disco Nunu but a "no support champs" into support Garen or "can't jungle" into jungle Janna. Yeah, they're baiting a dodge and they win. If you think it's selfish to dodge that shit, okay but I don't want to play that game.
And for fuck's sake, evilfatshit if your shift button is broken you can hit the caps lock button then hit it again to turn it off. There's also a second shift button if that option is too hard. You also have an enter key to break up your walls of text.
*If Krugs weren't worth so much xp I'd hate them also.
You are contributing to the problem though. By dodging every time someone picks janna jungle you are showing people it works. "You don't negotiate with terrorists" as they say. Sometimes I dodge kinda randomly but if someone tries trolling I absolutely never dodge.
On December 24 2016 05:37 JonnyLaw wrote: I know a lot of you played before the dodge timer penalty existed and it was terrible how long it could take to get a game.
Currently, most games I dodge are not specifically disco Nunu but a "no support champs" into support Garen or "can't jungle" into jungle Janna. Yeah, they're baiting a dodge and they win. If you think it's selfish to dodge that shit, okay but I don't want to play that game.
And for fuck's sake, evilfatshit if your shift button is broken you can hit the caps lock button then hit it again to turn it off. There's also a second shift button if that option is too hard. You also have an enter key to break up your walls of text.
*If Krugs weren't worth so much xp I'd hate them also.
You are contributing to the problem though. By dodging every time someone picks janna jungle you are showing people it works. "You don't negotiate with terrorists" as they say. Sometimes I dodge kinda randomly but if someone tries trolling I absolutely never dodge.
I agree. I'm giving them what they want but I don't want to play that game either. So, they win. I likely never play with them again and I'm okay doing other things for a few minutes.
On December 24 2016 05:37 JonnyLaw wrote: I know a lot of you played before the dodge timer penalty existed and it was terrible how long it could take to get a game.
Currently, most games I dodge are not specifically disco Nunu but a "no support champs" into support Garen or "can't jungle" into jungle Janna. Yeah, they're baiting a dodge and they win. If you think it's selfish to dodge that shit, okay but I don't want to play that game.
And for fuck's sake, evilfatshit if your shift button is broken you can hit the caps lock button then hit it again to turn it off. There's also a second shift button if that option is too hard. You also have an enter key to break up your walls of text.
*If Krugs weren't worth so much xp I'd hate them also.
You are contributing to the problem though. By dodging every time someone picks janna jungle you are showing people it works. "You don't negotiate with terrorists" as they say. Sometimes I dodge kinda randomly but if someone tries trolling I absolutely never dodge.
And this brings us back to the real source of "toxins" in LOL that Riot never had fixed: Champ select. I've always said I'd rather be called a [insert any word here] 9v1 every game than have a troll, or a passive-agressive Champ select problem once every ten (10) games.
On December 24 2016 05:37 JonnyLaw wrote: I know a lot of you played before the dodge timer penalty existed and it was terrible how long it could take to get a game.
Currently, most games I dodge are not specifically disco Nunu but a "no support champs" into support Garen or "can't jungle" into jungle Janna. Yeah, they're baiting a dodge and they win. If you think it's selfish to dodge that shit, okay but I don't want to play that game.
And for fuck's sake, evilfatshit if your shift button is broken you can hit the caps lock button then hit it again to turn it off. There's also a second shift button if that option is too hard. You also have an enter key to break up your walls of text.
*If Krugs weren't worth so much xp I'd hate them also.
You are contributing to the problem though. By dodging every time someone picks janna jungle you are showing people it works. "You don't negotiate with terrorists" as they say. Sometimes I dodge kinda randomly but if someone tries trolling I absolutely never dodge.
And this brings us back to the real source of "toxins" in LOL that Riot never had fixed: Champ select. I've always said I'd rather be called a [insert any word here] 9v1 every game than have a troll, or a passive-agressive Champ select problem once every ten (10) games.
Which Riot actually made way way better with roll selection. Some of you just love to shit on riot no matter whqt, which is so odd to me since you clearly enjoy their game.
it was only good with role selection before autofill
currently it's worse than pre-role selection mostly because of the entitlement people have towards their assignment
EPT
