EPT[Patch 6.16] Kled General Discussion - Page 6
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IamPryda
United States1186 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On August 20 2016 04:05 Kinie wrote: TI's meta was pretty wide open, as they had like 107 out of 111 heroes played during the course of the tournament. Compared to League right now, where you're looking at like 20-30 champions at most that are meta-viable. Ehhh. Dota2 has more bans and snaked bans, which obviously boosts diversity. But TI6 is not a great comparison. There were a ton of shitty picks that were never serious picks (Pudge) - by comparison the finals had way, way less diversity. Plus it's also way more games. Worlds season 5 had ~70 games and TI6 had almost 200? | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On August 16 2016 05:42 JimmiC wrote: No real problem with it. Just that the mindset is wrong. To win the game you need to take the most objectives, work together so on more then "get a bunch o kills" People would move up faster if they learned those skills instead of thinking everyone in their games is so much worse then them and they need to "carry" it is FAR FAR more likely that everyone in there game is equally bad just in different ways. That being said if they have fun trying to carry and are not mad at not moving up all the power to them. That mindset is wrong in higher elo but definitely in low elo you need to carry your team if you want to win, they seriously don't know what to do even when they have a bunch of objectives. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On August 20 2016 07:29 GrandInquisitor wrote: Ehhh. Dota2 has more bans and snaked bans, which obviously boosts diversity. But TI6 is not a great comparison. There were a ton of shitty picks that were never serious picks (Pudge) - by comparison the finals had way, way less diversity. Plus it's also way more games. Worlds season 5 had ~70 games and TI6 had almost 200? Crucially the modes in dota where the bans are not snaked there aren't 10 bans. League could benefit from more bans but front loaded bans are not an improvement. In soloqueue I'd rather stick to 6 if people don't want to waste even more time drafting. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 20 2016 07:29 GrandInquisitor wrote: Ehhh. Dota2 has more bans and snaked bans, which obviously boosts diversity. But TI6 is not a great comparison. There were a ton of shitty picks that were never serious picks (Pudge) - by comparison the finals had way, way less diversity. Plus it's also way more games. Worlds season 5 had ~70 games and TI6 had almost 200? There was a pudge pick in LB finals I think... | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On August 20 2016 09:29 JimmiC wrote: I disagree you play the same as high Elo you just ping lots and try to convince people to follow you. The better your score the easier it is but regardless you can carry by getting them to work together with as much success as picking whoever and trying to 1 v 5 idk honestly in low elo i just go off killing anyone who comes close to me and rely on my team for nothing because i don't have to, i'm 20-0 on Fizz and their team can't do anything about it. I think that it's a mistake to assume that your team is capable of following basic directions and playing as a team because if they were they wouldn't be in low elo, so you might as well just carry it on raw kills, which has a secondary advantage in that low elo people get demoralized by someone who is clearly destroying the game by him/herself. Imagine trying to coordinate a dive with low elo people--you definitely don't play the same at low and high elo. BTW, here's that Fizz game I was talking about: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GzkunaC.png) | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 20 2016 08:21 Slusher wrote: Crucially the modes in dota where the bans are not snaked there aren't 10 bans. League could benefit from more bans but front loaded bans are not an improvement. In soloqueue I'd rather stick to 6 if people don't want to waste even more time drafting. SoloQ bans: >Top 3 of each team ban 1 each. 1M. Blind bans inter-squad, if duplicated, oh well. > Top 3 of each team pick as before (with 4 of redside not yet picking). > Bottom 2 Each team ban 1 each. Still blind, still oh well. > Red4 Picks, Blue 4/5. Red 5 Pretty simple solution. Probably faster than currently. GI: Looking at TI6 picks/bans I compared the TI Upper bracket/Lowerbracket finals + Grand finals to what has happened in LCK Summer so far: TI6 UB+LB+GF (3 Series) 3 Teams 9 Games 57 Heroes Picked/Banned 18 Picked but not banned (39 banned) 10 Banned but not picked (47 Played) Most banned: Drow Ranger (9) Most picked: Mirana (5) 4 Heroes Picked/Banned in all 9 games: Drow, Mirana, Elder Titan, Timbersaw LCK Summer Playoffs 2016 (thus far) (3 Series) 4 Teams 10 Games 35 Heros Picked/Banned 15 Picked but not banned (20 banned) 2 Banned but not picked (33 Picked) Most banned: Taliah/Vladimir (6) Most Picked: Ekko/Sivir/Tahm Kench (8) 1 Hero Picked/Banned in all games: Gragas TLDR, KT/Rox need to pull out 12 unique picks for the entire LCK playoffs to match the last 3 series of TI in champs played in games. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On August 20 2016 11:41 cLutZ wrote: GI: Looking at TI6 picks/bans I compared the TI Upper bracket/Lowerbracket finals + Grand finals to what has happened in LCK Summer so far: TLDR, KT/Rox need to pull out 12 unique picks for the entire LCK playoffs to match the last 3 series of TI in champs played in games. Thanks. This is pretty interesting. If you restrict yourself to only picked (since obviously it's unfair to count banned) you get 47 heroes across 9 games? Compared to 33 champs in 10 games? That's a pretty small difference (equivalent to about 1-2 new champs per game) and I'm fine attributing that to snaked bans and more bans. A theory supported by the fact that you have 4 100% p/b instead of 1. Personally I don't think Riot will snake bans. It's a good idea but doesn't seem like a League idea. I wonder if they're willing to do simultaneous bans, with double-banned champions just being a wasted ban. It would help address their fears of like 10 ADC bans. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 20 2016 13:44 GrandInquisitor wrote: Thanks. This is pretty interesting. If you restrict yourself to only picked (since obviously it's unfair to count banned) you get 47 heroes across 9 games? Compared to 33 champs in 10 games? That's a pretty small difference (equivalent to about 1-2 new champs per game) and I'm fine attributing that to snaked bans and more bans. A theory supported by the fact that you have 4 100% p/b instead of 1. Personally I don't think Riot will snake bans. It's a good idea but doesn't seem like a League idea. I wonder if they're willing to do simultaneous bans, with double-banned champions just being a wasted ban. It would help address their fears of like 10 ADC bans. Well. #1 that proposal would just be for soloQ because that is much too long already. With voicecoms there is no reason LOL bans for pros cant be 30s apiece with a 1 min reserve time. IMO it just helps with the time issue, and it ensures anything that is "must ban" is banned in soloQ. I don't think it works for the LOL proscene because its simply too much mindgames for Blue side based on how many "must pick/ban" champs exist. #2 I think snaked bans are a must if you want to really get the extra "pick" diversity in lol for a lot of the reasons we've talked about. Its no good banning Cassiopeia right away if shes a counter to your meta/semi meta midlane pick because that gives away the game. It certainly would increase League's raw pick/ban stats, but it wouldn't do what people are looking for, which is add flavor to the game. #3. An interesting thing is that there were only 2 Banned, but not picked characters in League (TF and Nami), TF was a pocket pick in R1, and Nami was seemingly also random in R1. Neither was ever banned or picked again. Teams did not think they could afford the luxury of such bans against the strongest teams. Whereas there was one pick in DOTA (Drow) that no one wanted to face, and the rest seemed more like "pocket" or "comp" bans (sort of related to the last point of #2). PS. Drow was a strong pick pre-last-three-matches in DOTA, but nowhere near the level of GP/Vlad in the LCK playoffs. These bans should be perma on the LCK patch. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
Given the obviously negative effect this has on new players playing ranked (you need many more champs unlocked now) I wonder if it's a sign that many new accounts are just smurfs/for sale and not actually new players.And So riot doesn't particularly care that it hurts new players as much. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On August 20 2016 11:39 JimmiC wrote: Could be if you have the skills to do that consistently. Most people don't and are better off trying to learn the right way to play then to "carry" if they could do that already they would be long out of bronze and silver. I was not meaning the fastest way to boost if that's what you thought Except the right way to play is to generally be super passive and patient which takes more time to get good at while in solo going in like a retard 24/7 teaches you and works most of the time much better. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On August 19 2016 19:10 evilfatsh1t wrote: cause if youre a one trick pony in a higher elo you dont belong in that elo. you belong in the elo where you can play every other champion at. otherwise youre just ruining the game for everyone else when you dont get your 'main' everyone and their mom got to high elo in the first place being an ezreal otp in season 1 or earlier then you had a few randoms like dlift being a blitz 1 trick dyrus had a relatively deep champion pool consistent of singed and jax it's just objectively better to play a ladder on only 1 champion | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 21 2016 22:29 Frolossus wrote: everyone and their mom got to high elo in the first place being an ezreal otp in season 1 or earlier then you had a few randoms like dlift being a blitz 1 trick dyrus had a relatively deep champion pool consistent of singed and jax it's just objectively better to play a ladder on only 1 champion Which is bad game design. Which is why everyone says its good if they system makes the lives of OTPs harder. | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
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