EPTlulu buff makes no sense. even as someone who abused lulu to climb, those buffs are unnecessary. just some base stats would be nice so that she doesn't get 1 shot by irelia every time.
[Patch 6.12] ARAM is Alive General Discussion - Page 5
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
lulu buff makes no sense. even as someone who abused lulu to climb, those buffs are unnecessary. just some base stats would be nice so that she doesn't get 1 shot by irelia every time. | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On June 16 2016 15:25 dsyxelic wrote: yea the challenger ad vs support isn't even a question. ad hands down. even diamond ad's can straight up 1v2 in bronze. hell sometimes i wished my support would actually afk so he wouldn't risk feeding kills and i just 1v2. lulu buff makes no sense. even as someone who abused lulu to climb, those buffs are unnecessary. just some base stats would be nice so that she doesn't get 1 shot by irelia every time. Even if they don't snowball off kills (which they will), the pure CS difference would mean they would be so far ahead as well. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On June 16 2016 13:34 ticklishmusic wrote: Doesn't seem like Kindred loses her ability to full clear while barely taking any damage for the people who know how to play her though Yeah, but that same thing could be said to Elise players who know how to get the spiderlings to tank damage for her in the early clear, or knowing how to kite mobs back when Kayle Devourer jungle was a meta thing (admittedly for like 5 seconds, but it did exist at one point in time). If you want to nerf Kindred (yet again, this is like the third or fourth nerf in a row she could get hit with) then have the heal scale with the marks or nerf the base armor, like they have right now. It does put a bit of too much weight on her getting the marks, but it emphasizes just how important they are for her to get. Otherwise people are just going to go full tank with her after getting Bloodrazor, be super annoying in team fights, darting around and taking no damage (while still dealing some thanks to the mark system), and then pop their ulti when they're about to die or kite through the enemy front line again and pop the ulti to save her team's ADC/mid. | ||
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Faeny
647 Posts
On the surface it seems the intention is to make support Lulu stronger (more base mana and the new AS effect is not AP scaled) and mid Lulu weaker (weaker waveclear, and mids are likely to build Morello which has plenty of mana now). But my initial guess would be that both are weaker since both rely on Q to harass in lane and you'll need some kind of different build to take advantage of the new AS effect. I'm interested in the Leona passive change - giving movement speed to her and her ally when her passive is proc'd sounds pretty powerful, actually. Helps both pursuit and disengage. As a support player, I think I'll like the XP changes. It's pretty dangerous later in the game to be 5, 6 levels behind fed opposing solo laners. The Tahm Kench changes reduce both the initial size of his active shield and the passive sustain. Given that his shield starts out smaller I don't think the "doesn't fall off over duration" is enough compensation and the CD reduction isn't that meaningful either, since you usually build up gray health over an extended period of time. (passive sustain: ) new 70% x 25% < old 20% (at level 1 E), new 75% x 30% < old 26% (at level 2 E), etc. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On June 16 2016 08:45 Goumindong wrote: The answer is that you put your mechanically strong relative to rank player at AD and your mechanically weak relative to rank at support and then the rest you can prioritize how you want. terms like mechanics are pretty pointless in league though they dont help us at all you dont have a mechanically strong player or mechanically weak player or what the the fuck you're talking about realistically you put everyone on their main role and tell them to play passively with champs who can do that easily and have the best players try to carry | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Tanked as many placement matches as I could, went 3-7 actively feeding. Got placed in Bronze II. I've played an additional 8 games as support. My research concludes a challenger Support would climb hella fast. LOL. As an aside, I've noticed low Elo players respond and follow up much better to Blitz picks than literally any other pick. Its mid game, their mid pushed up past their tower with no wards, you have vision on the rest of their team derping around. As Blitz: + Show Spoiler + Your mid comes running. Jungler burns flash to get there. Dude dies instantly. Your whole team listens to your call to push an objective. Ally Top: [ALL] THE MAGIC CALLS TO ME! Ally Top: [ALL] GG EZ NUBS Ally ADC: [ALL] This blitz is so beast wtf. Ally Mid: [ALL] Is blitz Madlife? o.o Ally Mid: [ALL] the hardest carry holy shit Enemy Team: [ALL] Wow this is the worst bot lane I've ever seen. Same play as any other support: + Show Spoiler + Junglers stays at raptors. Mid finishes pushing out wave that is being pulled towards him. You nearly kill the mid laner. Ally mid signals that enemies are missing Ally mid signals that enemies are missing Ally mid signals that enemies are missing Ally mid signals that enemies are missing Ally mid signals that enemies are missing Ally mid signals to be careful Ally mid signals to be careful Ally mid signals to be careful Ally mid signals to be careful Ally mid signals to be careful Ally mid signals to be careful Ally mid signals to be careful Ally mid signals to be careful Ally top: [ALL] This -insert champ- LUL Ally adc: not sure how I got this fed with such a bad sup player wtf. Your mid laner finally shows up and kills their mid laner after 15 seconds. No one listens to your objective call. Games are easily carryable regardless, but its honestly the difference between a 17 minute game and a 30 minute game. I don't understand what exactly in their brain makes the big switch in attitude, but it is there. rofl. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
I've only played Blitz, Thresh, Ali, and Zyra. They all lock up the other guy for about the same time minus Zyra who just flat kills him. Especially in an elo where you can literally walk behind a guy and W delayed Q him so he is effectually hooked and Knocked up for longer than Blitz can hook a guy. I assume blitz pull is just a more visceral "letsgobitches" skill. I just think its weird that they don't recognize how another support can do the same thing. Also, skillshots are hard in bronze. No one jukes shit. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On June 17 2016 06:24 iCanada wrote: With all this talk about Bronze ADC / Challenger Support vs Challenger ADC / Bronze Support, I pulled out an unranked smurf account I had. Tanked as many placement matches as I could, went 3-7 actively feeding. Got placed in Bronze II. I've played an additional 8 games as support. My research concludes a challenger Support would climb hella fast. LOL. As an aside, I've noticed low Elo players respond and follow up much better to Blitz picks than literally any other pick. Its mid game, their mid pushed up past their tower with no wards, you have vision on the rest of their team derping around. As Blitz: + Show Spoiler + Your mid comes running. Jungler burns flash to get there. Dude dies instantly. Your whole team listens to your call to push an objective. Ally Top: [ALL] THE MAGIC CALLS TO ME! Ally Top: [ALL] GG EZ NUBS Ally ADC: [ALL] This blitz is so beast wtf. Ally Mid: [ALL] Is blitz Madlife? o.o Ally Mid: [ALL] the hardest carry holy shit Enemy Team: [ALL] Wow this is the worst bot lane I've ever seen. Same play as any other support: + Show Spoiler + Junglers stays at raptors. Mid finishes pushing out wave that is being pulled towards him. You nearly kill the mid laner. Ally mid signals that enemies are missing Ally mid signals that enemies are missing Ally mid signals that enemies are missing Ally mid signals that enemies are missing Ally mid signals that enemies are missing Ally mid signals to be careful Ally mid signals to be careful Ally mid signals to be careful Ally mid signals to be careful Ally mid signals to be careful Ally mid signals to be careful Ally mid signals to be careful Ally mid signals to be careful Ally top: [ALL] This -insert champ- LUL Ally adc: not sure how I got this fed with such a bad sup player wtf. Your mid laner finally shows up and kills their mid laner after 15 seconds. No one listens to your objective call. Games are easily carryable regardless, but its honestly the difference between a 17 minute game and a 30 minute game. I don't understand what exactly in their brain makes the big switch in attitude, but it is there. rofl. yeah well blitz hook is an obvious way to gain kills so well nobody said a challenger support wouldn't climb fast as fuck we're saying if you burdened him with a bronze ADC in EVERY game regardless of elo he'd be fucked compared to the challenger adc with a bronze support you can be a passable support if you don't take any risks do your warding decently and peel you won't carry but it's passable and if you follow a challenger adc everywhere it's not that bad compared to a bronze adc who can't last hit dodge skillshots teamfight or position | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
I bet the Challenger ADC probably skyrockets when he hits that same mark too. I think the Challenger Supp prolly climbs to that point faster, would be my guess. I don't care how good an ADC is if a fed Master Yi (who probably feasted on the souls of a Malphite in some unimaginable terror lane phase) with a Taric are on your nuts you're dead. I'd bet the ADC player loses 10 to 20% more games than the Support player just off of random shit ADC's can't deal with alone snowballing in ungodly ways on the way to around mid gold where players start to peel. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Also pls picking a peel support in that elo if you are challenger is the most braindead thing you can do. Picking tf for the first time would make the game easier to win than picking soraka. Support is an overvalued role if anything. | ||
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MuddyJam
535 Posts
On June 17 2016 07:16 iCanada wrote: Yeah, tbh I think the Chalenger support + Bronze ADC probably hits a wall around high gold / low platinum where ADC's and teams start to get competent. I bet the Challenger ADC probably skyrockets when he hits that same mark too. I think the Challenger Supp prolly climbs to that point faster, would be my guess. I don't care how good an ADC is if a fed Master Yi (who probably feasted on the souls of a Malphite in some unimaginable terror lane phase) with a Taric are on your nuts you're dead. I'd bet the ADC player loses 10 to 20% more games than the Support player just off of random shit ADC's can't deal with alone snowballing in ungodly ways on the way to around mid gold where players start to peel. no. If the support is the master they will have to play some blitz/apsupport and be on mic with there adc. You underestimate how bad you have to be to get stuck in bronze. We talking missing most cs, having no understanding on spacing/zoning plus missing skillshots. If you flip it you can just dump the bronze player on soraka and the adc will just 1v2 the lane with caitlin. which they can probably do till low diamond. if you do mean a challenger level player. If they are mic'ed up and can back the support away from stupid shit they can just solo carry the tf as they will out huge amounts of damage. Like people elo boost as ADC for a reason. Because you can solo win the game, its right up there with mid. You overestimate how good low elo players. And if a enemy low elo player gets fed they are way more prone to tilt/feed/throw/misplay than our adc. Do you think that gold yi has any idea how to play vs a good vayne? Like i play at low plat and people still cant insec kick or gangplank triple barrel. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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MuddyJam
535 Posts
Should I recall? push? (teemo pushes v slowily pre 6) sit and just lane with them having bought | ||
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Gahlo
United States35147 Posts
On June 17 2016 09:32 MuddyJam wrote: For top lane if you kill your opponent pre 6 with ignite what should you do? This is happening often when I play Teemo. But they tp back to lane and end up getting a cs lead :/ If the lane is shoving into me what should iI do when I kill the laner? Should I recall? push? (teemo pushes v slowily pre 6) sit and just lane with them having bought Sounds to me like you need help with wave management. Give this playlist a watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzHaU28zdQ4GAMfVf_aASyiB4dheLsONx | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
the other challenger teemo otp ipav I haven't ever talked to, but his history shows all ghost. | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
in addition to the mechanical last hitting difference, most players at that level don't even really understand the concept that letting towers get waves full of solo gold and experience is bad. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 17 2016 06:45 iCanada wrote: I agree Blitz picks are generally better than most champs picks, but I don't think they difference between blitz and the average support champ is that different in reality. I've only played Blitz, Thresh, Ali, and Zyra. They all lock up the other guy for about the same time minus Zyra who just flat kills him. Especially in an elo where you can literally walk behind a guy and W delayed Q him so he is effectually hooked and Knocked up for longer than Blitz can hook a guy. I assume blitz pull is just a more visceral "letsgobitches" skill. I just think its weird that they don't recognize how another support can do the same thing. Also, skillshots are hard in bronze. No one jukes shit. Its not how long a person is locked up its where that makes blitz hooks so impactful. Its the difference between Headbutt>Pulv and Pulv>Headbutt. When the player is on your side of a wall, or knocked into your lap it is just sooo much easier to assess how to react than when it looks like your support might be overreaching, or just poking. Particularly if you aren't great at reading the minimap. | ||
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