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United States37500 Posts
Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Non-League of Legends discussion should go in the LiquidLegends Lounge.
Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include:- "Elo hell"
- The Tribunal
- Bans, either from TL.net or LoL
Additionally, the TL LoL Ten Commandments are available for you to reference if you have any questions about this subforum.
Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
There is no new champion this patch.
Patch 6.12: Live on June 15th, 2016
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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finally bilgewater is cheaper
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About Jax vs Kayle, I was obviously talking about the pre-6 phase. Afterwards it stops being fun for a lot of champions against Jax or Irelia.
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On June 15 2016 03:48 Slayer91 wrote:
afk farm when your own farming skill pushes the wave
ok chief
But isn't this perfectly fine? Clear wave, go chill until next. Rinse repeat until you can slaughter everyone.
JimmiC wrote:
There is higher levels of play in AMRAM? learn something new every day!
ARAM got it's own MMR. In your first ARAM the initial MMR is based on your normal MMR and then it converge towards your "true" ARAM MMR. I have about 1600 ARAM games with ~60% win ratio, my queue when playing solo is usually 7-10 minutes (shameless ninja-brag).
It sort of sucks, around 50% of the players are using ARAM accounts, as in they only got the S-tier ARAM champions on it.
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Didn't snowball make a lot more champions viable in aram? Healers and poke are still great but some melee champs can wreck with snowball.
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On June 15 2016 04:22 JonnyLaw wrote:
Didn't snowball make a lot more champions viable in aram? Healers and poke are still great but some melee champs can wreck with snowball.
basically yes
sceptical of snowball nerfed and all other summs (but esp flash) buffed decisions
might screw up more than it fixes but maybe the gold/xp changes make up for it
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On June 15 2016 04:12 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 03:48 Slayer91 wrote:
afk farm when your own farming skill pushes the wave
ok chief But isn't this perfectly fine? Clear wave, go chill until next. Rinse repeat until you can slaughter everyone. Show nested quote +JimmiC wrote:
There is higher levels of play in AMRAM? learn something new every day! ARAM got it's own MMR. In your first ARAM the initial MMR is based on your normal MMR and then it converge towards your "true" ARAM MMR. I have about 1600 ARAM games with ~60% win ratio, my queue when playing solo is usually 7-10 minutes (shameless ninja-brag). It sort of sucks, around 50% of the players are using ARAM accounts, as in they only got the S-tier ARAM champions on it.
thats assuming you're allowed to clear the wave with impunity
and assuming kayle is a lategame monster when it's more like she's a short ranged champ with high dps and a single target kindred ult which can be good but is weak against like long range poke and hard engage tanks
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On June 15 2016 04:12 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +JimmiC wrote:
There is higher levels of play in AMRAM? learn something new every day! ARAM got it's own MMR. In your first ARAM the initial MMR is based on your normal MMR and then it converge towards your "true" ARAM MMR. I have about 1600 ARAM games with ~60% win ratio, my queue when playing solo is usually 7-10 minutes (shameless ninja-brag). It sort of sucks, around 50% of the players are using ARAM accounts, as in they only got the S-tier ARAM champions on it.
It's always such a shock when I play with my friends on their low-ARAM-MMR accounts. Instead of teammates that start Relic Shield and rush Locket, you get a Braum building Wit's End -> Banshee's -> Black Cleaver (I wish I was joking).
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what the hell is snowball and what does it do?
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You shoot out a snowball as a skillshot, and when it hits someone it does true damage (only a small amount, like 30 or some shit). Then you can reactive that summoner spell and dash towards the champion hit (I forget if it also works on minions)
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On the Kayle question, she's actually one of the champions I started trying more because Fizz is banned so much lately, but I eventually gave up on her, not because it wasn't strong, but because it didn't come online early enough for those games where my bot lane got butt blasted.
as far as these patch notes go, I'd have traded the qss "nerf" on ult for not getting these nerfs any day(although I don't think they are that related one just brought attention to the other). the REAL problem with tank Fizz was on him Furvor was op, his base damage like I've said before is pretty bad as it's taken several hits anymore, the reason why they hit the dot is because q and w are already 10 at rank 1so it was literally the only thing to hit.
I think keystones turned out to be pretty cool, but this goes back to the problem with original skirmisher there are a couple champs who make Furvor look ridiculous. In this case because Furvor sucks a fat dong on the ap build it's almost like the ww nerf before the skirmisher nerf instantaneously. I think Assassin Fizz was pretty strong on this patch so I shouldn't qq too much, but I DO think Furvor caused him to take a base damage hit which is pretty much already his worst quality.
hitbox change looks big on paper I wonder how many head scratching moments thats going to give me in the upcoming days. But earlier on the pbe the took away his ability to ignore minion collision so I'm just glad we got that back.
I also loathe the double edged sword change, the inherent strength of being ranged isn't penalized enough in this game as is.
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On June 15 2016 04:51 Slayer91 wrote:
what the hell is snowball and what does it do?
0 dmg lee sin q with super slow missile speed, think old Anivia E
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the snowdown snowball was stronger iirc, killing ppl with it was hilarious
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it might do a really small amount I'm not sure it's not lee sin q that was more the message
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On June 15 2016 05:15 Slusher wrote:
it might do a really small amount I'm not sure it's not lee sin q that was more the message
It deals 20+10 per level true damage iirc. 
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On June 15 2016 04:38 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 04:12 Jek wrote:On June 15 2016 03:48 Slayer91 wrote:
afk farm when your own farming skill pushes the wave
ok chief But isn't this perfectly fine? Clear wave, go chill until next. Rinse repeat until you can slaughter everyone. JimmiC wrote:
There is higher levels of play in AMRAM? learn something new every day! ARAM got it's own MMR. In your first ARAM the initial MMR is based on your normal MMR and then it converge towards your "true" ARAM MMR. I have about 1600 ARAM games with ~60% win ratio, my queue when playing solo is usually 7-10 minutes (shameless ninja-brag). It sort of sucks, around 50% of the players are using ARAM accounts, as in they only got the S-tier ARAM champions on it. thats assuming you're allowed to clear the wave with impunity and assuming kayle is a lategame monster when it's more like she's a short ranged champ with high dps and a single target kindred ult which can be good but is weak against like long range poke and hard engage tanks
I have played this matchup a thousand times - and Jax just shits all over Kayle imo. Jax is all about trading, and if Jax can proc his Ult passive, its pretty much over. You don't even need to use your E, until she Ults herself - and then you pretty much nullify her 'free damage' period and then by the time stun duration ends - her ult does too, GG no RE
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On June 15 2016 04:51 Slayer91 wrote:
what the hell is snowball and what does it do?
Its Lee Q on a summoner without the execute. Does no damage, like 5+3 per level or something silly small like that.
On June 15 2016 05:00 Slusher wrote:
On the Kayle question, she's actually one of the champions I started trying more because Fizz is banned so much lately, but I eventually gave up on her, not because it wasn't strong, but because it didn't come online early enough for those games where my bot lane got butt blasted.
as far as these patch notes go, I'd have traded the qss "nerf" on ult for not getting these nerfs any day(although I don't think they are that related one just brought attention to the other). the REAL problem with tank Fizz was on him Furvor was op, his base damage like I've said before is pretty bad as it's taken several hits anymore, the reason why they hit the dot is because q and w are already 10 at rank 1so it was literally the only thing to hit.
I think keystones turned out to be pretty cool, but this goes back to the problem with original skirmisher there are a couple champs who make Furvor look ridiculous. In this case because Furvor sucks a fat dong on the ap build it's almost like the ww nerf before the skirmisher nerf instantaneously. I think Assassin Fizz was pretty strong on this patch so I shouldn't qq too much, but I DO think Furvor caused him to take a base damage hit which is pretty much already his worst quality.
hitbox change looks big on paper I wonder how many head scratching moments thats going to give me in the upcoming days. But earlier on the pbe the took away his ability to ignore minion collision so I'm just glad we got that back.
I also loathe the double edged sword change, the inherent strength of being ranged isn't penalized enough in this game as is.
I mean, part of it is fervor, but a much larger part is just the % HP damage on W. I dunno, an AP assassin don't need that shit, all it does is make champs hit like a truck without damage items. Fervor isn't even that broken on Fizz, compared to how broken it is on like olaf.
I dunno why they keep putting it on champions, then being surprised when people build them tanky and kill everything. There must be a huge disconnect between the Champ design and champ balance sections of Riot, because Imo that shit is dumb.
"we didn't expect him to pop kids without offensive items." well then why did you make him do lots of damage without items? like wtf do they expect?
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Good to see some familiar faces around here (my memorial thread is still up!). <3 Neo + TL
I've all but stopped playing/following the scene, but I wanted to stop by and say hello. Hope you're all doing well .
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The Spartan god himself! <3
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United States37500 Posts
Hey LoCi. Hope you're doing well too. :3
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On June 15 2016 06:33 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 04:51 Slayer91 wrote:
what the hell is snowball and what does it do? Its Lee Q on a summoner without the execute. Does no damage, like 5+3 per level or something silly small like that. Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 05:00 Slusher wrote:
On the Kayle question, she's actually one of the champions I started trying more because Fizz is banned so much lately, but I eventually gave up on her, not because it wasn't strong, but because it didn't come online early enough for those games where my bot lane got butt blasted.
as far as these patch notes go, I'd have traded the qss "nerf" on ult for not getting these nerfs any day(although I don't think they are that related one just brought attention to the other). the REAL problem with tank Fizz was on him Furvor was op, his base damage like I've said before is pretty bad as it's taken several hits anymore, the reason why they hit the dot is because q and w are already 10 at rank 1so it was literally the only thing to hit.
I think keystones turned out to be pretty cool, but this goes back to the problem with original skirmisher there are a couple champs who make Furvor look ridiculous. In this case because Furvor sucks a fat dong on the ap build it's almost like the ww nerf before the skirmisher nerf instantaneously. I think Assassin Fizz was pretty strong on this patch so I shouldn't qq too much, but I DO think Furvor caused him to take a base damage hit which is pretty much already his worst quality.
hitbox change looks big on paper I wonder how many head scratching moments thats going to give me in the upcoming days. But earlier on the pbe the took away his ability to ignore minion collision so I'm just glad we got that back.
I also loathe the double edged sword change, the inherent strength of being ranged isn't penalized enough in this game as is. I mean, part of it is fervor, but a much larger part is just the % HP damage on W. I dunno, an AP assassin don't need that shit, all it does is make champs hit like a truck without damage items. Fervor isn't even that broken on Fizz, compared to how broken it is on like olaf. I dunno why they keep putting it on champions, then being surprised when people build them tanky and kill everything. There must be a huge disconnect between the Champ design and champ balance sections of Riot, because Imo that shit is dumb. "we didn't expect him to pop kids without offensive items." well then why did you make him do lots of damage without items? like wtf do they expect?
His mobility allowing you to continue to auto as a melee after full stacking furvor made him 2nd only to lucian in furvor abuse imo.
Idk this doesn't kill assassin build ofc but it hurts in the ones where you grab 2 points in w at 4 aka most of his good match ups
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Fun League Big Data project: construct a timeline of nerfs/buffs to each champion and put it alongside skin releases. You can then categorize each skin release as:
1. Skin released less than 2 weeks after nerf: can't think of anything cynical
2. Skin released less than 2 weeks after buff: "rito cashing in on their buffs"
3. Skin released with no nerfs or buffs within 2 weeks: can't think of anything cynical
4. Skin released less than 2 weeks before nerf: "rito gotta make money off the skin before nerfing"
5. Skin released less than 2 weeks before buff: "rito gotta boost those skin sales"
Super Galaxy Fizz just falls outside of category 4
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To carry on the Kayle discussion from last patch, I don't play mid, so I've never had to lane against Nidalees or AP Jannas.
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On June 15 2016 07:18 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 06:33 iCanada wrote:On June 15 2016 04:51 Slayer91 wrote:
what the hell is snowball and what does it do? Its Lee Q on a summoner without the execute. Does no damage, like 5+3 per level or something silly small like that. On June 15 2016 05:00 Slusher wrote:
On the Kayle question, she's actually one of the champions I started trying more because Fizz is banned so much lately, but I eventually gave up on her, not because it wasn't strong, but because it didn't come online early enough for those games where my bot lane got butt blasted.
as far as these patch notes go, I'd have traded the qss "nerf" on ult for not getting these nerfs any day(although I don't think they are that related one just brought attention to the other). the REAL problem with tank Fizz was on him Furvor was op, his base damage like I've said before is pretty bad as it's taken several hits anymore, the reason why they hit the dot is because q and w are already 10 at rank 1so it was literally the only thing to hit.
I think keystones turned out to be pretty cool, but this goes back to the problem with original skirmisher there are a couple champs who make Furvor look ridiculous. In this case because Furvor sucks a fat dong on the ap build it's almost like the ww nerf before the skirmisher nerf instantaneously. I think Assassin Fizz was pretty strong on this patch so I shouldn't qq too much, but I DO think Furvor caused him to take a base damage hit which is pretty much already his worst quality.
hitbox change looks big on paper I wonder how many head scratching moments thats going to give me in the upcoming days. But earlier on the pbe the took away his ability to ignore minion collision so I'm just glad we got that back.
I also loathe the double edged sword change, the inherent strength of being ranged isn't penalized enough in this game as is. I mean, part of it is fervor, but a much larger part is just the % HP damage on W. I dunno, an AP assassin don't need that shit, all it does is make champs hit like a truck without damage items. Fervor isn't even that broken on Fizz, compared to how broken it is on like olaf. I dunno why they keep putting it on champions, then being surprised when people build them tanky and kill everything. There must be a huge disconnect between the Champ design and champ balance sections of Riot, because Imo that shit is dumb. "we didn't expect him to pop kids without offensive items." well then why did you make him do lots of damage without items? like wtf do they expect? His mobility allowing you to continue to auto as a melee after full stacking furvor made him 2nd only to lucian in furvor abuse imo. Idk this doesn't kill assassin build ofc but it hurts in the ones where you grab 2 points in w at 4 aka most of his good match ups
I mean... Olaf has the highest base AS in the game, an Auto attacking steroid, cc immunity, AND stacks ferver ridiculously fast with axes.
I'd put Olaf ahead of Fizz. Not that he is bad with it or anything. I don't think fervor inherently breaks anything, even champs better than Fizz. I don't think Fervor is the problem.
I also don't think the actual nerfs are that huge. I can't believe fizz' original hitbox was smaller than Teemo's. o.O
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Giving ranged champions the same effectiveness on double edged sword is a baaaad idea.
Also reducing cooldowns on every summoner in ARAM is really dumb, half the game revolves around blowing the flashes of the threats on the other team, now they're going to be back up after one round of ults if there's any gap between major engagements. I suppose your flash will be up too, but everyone is going to have flash up so fast nearly all the time is going to suck. Galio, Annie, and Amumu are already all obnoxious as hell in ARAM, now they're going to have flash up even more? JOY.
At least they made snowball more visible with a slightly longer cooldown.
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So if I haven't played since 6.5 or so, what are the major things I may have missed during this time?
I realized there was a mage update a while back that I still need to catch up on (as I primarily play mid), but what else have I missed?
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On June 15 2016 10:20 rebdomine wrote:
So if I haven't played since 6.5 or so, what are the major things I may have missed during this time?
I realized there was a mage update a while back that I still need to catch up on (as I primarily play mid), but what else have I missed?
not really look at the champion changes and the mage item changes.
edit like what champs you play mid
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Pootie too good!4331 Posts
On June 15 2016 10:28 MuddyJam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 10:20 rebdomine wrote:
So if I haven't played since 6.5 or so, what are the major things I may have missed during this time?
I realized there was a mage update a while back that I still need to catch up on (as I primarily play mid), but what else have I missed? not really look at the champion changes and the mage item changes. edit like what champs you play mid
Uhhh you should look into the rift herald changes and the dragon changes, those are pretty big. Make sure you read up on the new (and old) mage items. Things like zhona and abysal were changed (+cdr -dmg passives/actives changed a bit)
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On June 15 2016 10:36 JonGalt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 10:28 MuddyJam wrote:On June 15 2016 10:20 rebdomine wrote:
So if I haven't played since 6.5 or so, what are the major things I may have missed during this time?
I realized there was a mage update a while back that I still need to catch up on (as I primarily play mid), but what else have I missed? not really look at the champion changes and the mage item changes. edit like what champs you play mid Uhhh you should look into the rift herald changes and the dragon changes, those are pretty big. Make sure you read up on the new (and old) mage items. Things like zhona and abysal were changed (+cdr -dmg passives/actives changed a bit)
o yeah forgot dragons :x
Eldar dragon is the new baron but kinda not. It doesn't do aoe dmg so people don't throw there like baron. Also in my experience you can trade baron for eldar and just stall them out if needed.
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Alright thanks I will look into those.
I suppose I will just see in action what other people build/do for other roles and just wing it in a couple of unranked games for a bit.
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On June 15 2016 10:44 MuddyJam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 10:36 JonGalt wrote:On June 15 2016 10:28 MuddyJam wrote:On June 15 2016 10:20 rebdomine wrote:
So if I haven't played since 6.5 or so, what are the major things I may have missed during this time?
I realized there was a mage update a while back that I still need to catch up on (as I primarily play mid), but what else have I missed? not really look at the champion changes and the mage item changes. edit like what champs you play mid Uhhh you should look into the rift herald changes and the dragon changes, those are pretty big. Make sure you read up on the new (and old) mage items. Things like zhona and abysal were changed (+cdr -dmg passives/actives changed a bit) o yeah forgot dragons :x Eldar dragon is the new baron but kinda not. It doesn't do aoe dmg so people don't throw there like baron. Also in my experience you can trade baron for eldar and just stall them out if needed.
Depends on game.
If they have like 4 drakes and theey take Elder you insta lose. That true damage burn on autos is 45+45*N where N = number of elemental drakes taken. SO like, their support with 4 drakes will do 225 true damage on hit burn effect over 3 seconds. You have to hard derp to lose fights with that. Pretty huge. If you have a tank you can straight up dive 3 or 4 towers.
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Elder Drake buff only lasts 90 seconds. If the team isn't decisive (solo queue) it can end up doing a whole lot of nothing.
If you have four drakes you're in a pretty good spot to begin with.
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few thoughts
-veteran scars buff seems really silly? its used alot already. I thought vet scars / runic mastery was in an ok place atm. its not a crazy buff so its fine, but of all things to change I'm surprised they chose vet scars lol
-im sad the fizz nerf wasn't harder. what an annoying champion. he should still be played in pros albeit slightly less
if i was on eu i may have believed you gave me ptsd in the kayle vs irelia slayer
insta ban if i ever want to play kayle top
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On June 15 2016 12:18 JonnyLaw wrote:
Elder Drake buff only lasts 90 seconds. If the team isn't decisive (solo queue) it can end up doing a whole lot of nothing.
If you have four drakes you're in a pretty good spot to begin with.
I mean, depends. Could be 3 cloud drakes, and they pushed in for towers / rift herald and you took the free objective on the map just because it was better than losing a tower for nothing.
Could be you are smashing the game.
Could be the other teams bot lane just has real untimely recalls and you are a Kindred and thus do dragon in 0.5 seconds.
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On June 15 2016 05:00 Slusher wrote:
I also loathe the double edged sword change, the inherent strength of being ranged isn't penalized enough in this game as is.
riot bias towards ranged is showing, they also added AD to 6 item crit builds which was already ridiculous with fervor everything melts in seconds at later stage of the game, add 3% extra dmg its going to be even more stupid, few days ago i watched IWD play full tank gragas and he was literally getting 1 shot during stunlock by 1-7 kennen late game who got his items it was retarded
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On June 15 2016 13:54 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 05:00 Slusher wrote:
I also loathe the double edged sword change, the inherent strength of being ranged isn't penalized enough in this game as is. riot bias towards ranged is showing, they also added AD to 6 item crit builds which was already ridiculous with fervor everything melts in seconds at later stage of the game, add 3% extra dmg its going to be even more stupid, few days ago i watched IWD play full tank gragas and he was literally getting 1 shot during stunlock by 1-7 kennen late game who got his items it was retarded
Then you're missing the point of the changes.
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and u are missing the fact that they buffed a late game scaling build so it outperforms OP mid game build in meta where midgame is important , yes its probably going to be fine midgame but completely nuts late game
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you also have to take into account it actually makes the damage taken higher for melee vs ranged match ups where you have to endure a lot of unreturnable harass, since before no ranged champions were taking it.
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Why don't people play Gnar?
Every time I see him he pops right off and he kills everything. That TP transform E engage is probably the best engage in the game right now. His team gets deep vision mid lane when you guys posturing around baron and he can just wreck your whole team with the wallstun.
Not to mention, with the strength of the Cleaver/Ghostblade type items right now and how much AD ratio he has in his kit you'd think he'd be all over the place. Mini Gnar Q is like what, 1.15 total AD? Big Gnar Q is 120% total AD, Big Gnar E is 100% total ad, and R is 0.6 bonus AD.
I bet a Cleaver + Steraks / Maw Gnar would one shot an ADC and support for most of if not all of the midgame.
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I mean, if you land your mega-Gnar combo, yeah. But his combo is pretty slow and not easy to hit if the enemy team plays around it properly. His base stats are pretty god awful too if you're not in mega-Gnar, he has the lowest armor in the game at level 18 besides Thresh (who is a special case, due to the souls raising his armor over time, though I suppose Gnar is too in his own way), the lowest health in the game (and with it up, he's still just middle of the pack), lower third or so in base AD at level 18 (ahead of most ADC's and some utility mages), And you have to coordinate mega-Gnar with your team, which can be very hit or miss.
He's just not very reliable unless you're really good at him and your team plays with him well.
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On June 15 2016 15:35 zer0das wrote:
I mean, if you land your mega-Gnar combo, yeah. But his combo is pretty slow and not easy to hit if the enemy team plays around it properly. His base stats are pretty god awful too if you're not in mega-Gnar, he has the lowest armor in the game at level 18 besides Thresh (who is a special case, due to the souls raising his armor over time), the lowest health in the game (and with it up, he's still just middle of the pack), lower third or so in base AD at level 18 (ahead of most ADC's and some utility mages), And you have to coordinate mega-Gnar with your team, which can be very hit or miss.
He's just not very reliable unless you're really good at him and your team plays with him well.
Follow up, same reason he was never popular out of pro play: he needs amazing coordination to work 9/10 times. Plus pro play is mostly kite comps now it seems.
Gnar is one of Riot's quintessential "fun idea, doesn't work in the game they imagined" champs. The rage mechanic is simply not very good (assuming he is not otherwise OP in ranged form) if your team is uncoordinated, or if the other team is coordinated. So, he was relevant when ranged Gnar could win lane (while mega was super good in teamfights), but now that range mode is not OP, he is only theoretically good. Needs a rework of some sort, probably like the Shyvana model.
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On June 15 2016 16:01 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 15:35 zer0das wrote:
I mean, if you land your mega-Gnar combo, yeah. But his combo is pretty slow and not easy to hit if the enemy team plays around it properly. His base stats are pretty god awful too if you're not in mega-Gnar, he has the lowest armor in the game at level 18 besides Thresh (who is a special case, due to the souls raising his armor over time), the lowest health in the game (and with it up, he's still just middle of the pack), lower third or so in base AD at level 18 (ahead of most ADC's and some utility mages), And you have to coordinate mega-Gnar with your team, which can be very hit or miss.
He's just not very reliable unless you're really good at him and your team plays with him well. Follow up, same reason he was never popular out of pro play: he needs amazing coordination to work 9/10 times. Plus pro play is mostly kite comps now it seems. Gnar is one of Riot's quintessential "fun idea, doesn't work in the game they imagined" champs. The rage mechanic is simply not very good (assuming he is not otherwise OP in ranged form) if your team is uncoordinated, or if the other team is coordinated. So, he was relevant when ranged Gnar could win lane (while mega was super good in teamfights), but now that range mode is not OP, he is only theoretically good. Needs a rework of some sort, probably like the Shyvana model.
They'd have to nerf the shit out of mega to make up for being able to activate it on command at full fury though. You can't have him sit in mini with mega ready and zone the crap out of a melee simply with the threat of being able to instantly mega and trade back.
Riot did want the tradeoff from mega to mini to be severe.
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On June 15 2016 16:21 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 16:01 cLutZ wrote:On June 15 2016 15:35 zer0das wrote:
I mean, if you land your mega-Gnar combo, yeah. But his combo is pretty slow and not easy to hit if the enemy team plays around it properly. His base stats are pretty god awful too if you're not in mega-Gnar, he has the lowest armor in the game at level 18 besides Thresh (who is a special case, due to the souls raising his armor over time), the lowest health in the game (and with it up, he's still just middle of the pack), lower third or so in base AD at level 18 (ahead of most ADC's and some utility mages), And you have to coordinate mega-Gnar with your team, which can be very hit or miss.
He's just not very reliable unless you're really good at him and your team plays with him well. Follow up, same reason he was never popular out of pro play: he needs amazing coordination to work 9/10 times. Plus pro play is mostly kite comps now it seems. Gnar is one of Riot's quintessential "fun idea, doesn't work in the game they imagined" champs. The rage mechanic is simply not very good (assuming he is not otherwise OP in ranged form) if your team is uncoordinated, or if the other team is coordinated. So, he was relevant when ranged Gnar could win lane (while mega was super good in teamfights), but now that range mode is not OP, he is only theoretically good. Needs a rework of some sort, probably like the Shyvana model. They'd have to nerf the shit out of mega to make up for being able to activate it on command at full fury though. You can't have him sit in mini with mega ready and zone the crap out of a melee simply with the threat of being able to instantly mega and trade back. Riot did want the tradeoff from mega to mini to be severe.
Yes I know, but that doesn't really work well with the TP top meta or with the strength of mega being teamfights vs. mini being slitpush.
If you keep the rage system as is you're always going to have the issue of Baron/dragon dances neutering the character, or you somehow make both phases good at the same thing so its not such a big role change. Like he goes from sliptter to mega-slippusher or teamfighter into super teamfighter. The swap is the issue, mostly.
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I think it's interesting the way it is.
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On June 15 2016 14:08 kongoline wrote:
and u are missing the fact that they buffed a late game scaling build so it outperforms OP mid game build in meta where midgame is important , yes its probably going to be fine midgame but completely nuts late game
I'm not sure a shift of 10-15AD outperforms to the extent that GB/BC did in addition to it being open to the full array of ADs as opposed to the limited few.
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Pootie too good!4331 Posts
On June 15 2016 12:18 JonnyLaw wrote:
Elder Drake buff only lasts 90 seconds. If the team isn't decisive (solo queue) it can end up doing a whole lot of nothing.
If you have four drakes you're in a pretty good spot to begin with.
It's 120 second buff, not 90.
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On June 15 2016 15:08 iCanada wrote:
Why don't people play Gnar?
Every time I see him he pops right off and he kills everything. That TP transform E engage is probably the best engage in the game right now. His team gets deep vision mid lane when you guys posturing around baron and he can just wreck your whole team with the wallstun.
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because doing that consistently vs good player is REALLY hard. Like that is not something you can practise over and over. Lee sin's kick, azir's shuffle, gangplank triple barrels and rivens aa cancelling are all things you can practise in customs and easy in comparison. The champion is designed that if you can do that it will win the teamfight but otherwise if you teamfight in mini form your useless
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So, what is the new ADC meta? what I will see every game now?
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On June 15 2016 17:13 Slusher wrote:
I think it's interesting the way it is.
It is interesting, just not stable.
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On June 16 2016 01:35 M2 wrote:
So, what is the new ADC meta? what I will see every game now?
As of late it's been champions that can abuse the GB/BC combo for a strong early/mid game or more utility based ADs. Typically Lucian, Twitch, MF, Ashe, and Sivir.
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Couldn't Gnar be a good decent support?
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the challenger adc obviously
what the fuck is a challenger support going to do with a bronze adc
the thing about playing supports is you only have to get bronze 3 adcs if you play against bronze 3 adcs
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Maybe you could get out of bronze faster with a challenger support because it's easier to snowball the lane as a support but the challenger adc's duo should definitely climb higher
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On June 16 2016 03:54 JimmiC wrote:
Ok here is a experiment.
You take a bronze 3 support and get him to duo with a challenger adc.
Then you take a Bronze 3 adc and get him to duo with Challenger support.
See who climbs higher!
i mean the challenger adc just needs his support to pick soraka and heal him until they get to like, plat+
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
It's like that old reddit discussion: if you had to have a Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Diamond player on your team, who would you assign to each role?
My view was that you'd want:
Bronze top
Diamond jungler
Platinum mid
Gold ADC
Silver support
provided that you could tell your players things like: "BronzieBob, play Malphite, SilverSam, play Sona". If you couldn't, then maybe swap the Bronze player to support and stick the Silver player in top.
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On June 16 2016 04:42 Sent. wrote:
Maybe you could get out of bronze faster with a challenger support because it's easier to snowball the lane as a support but the challenger adc's duo should definitely climb higher
Pretty sure a challenger ad can straight up 1v2 bot lane in bronze.
On June 16 2016 05:48 GrandInquisitor wrote:
It's like that old reddit discussion: if you had to have a Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Diamond player on your team, who would you assign to each role?
My view was that you'd want:
Bronze top
Diamond jungler
Platinum mid
Gold ADC
Silver support
provided that you could tell your players things like: "BronzieBob, play Malphite, SilverSam, play Sona". If you couldn't, then maybe swap the Bronze player to support and stick the Silver player in top.
As long as the 2 best players are on mid/jg the rest don't matter.
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On the other had, with how bot focused the game is right now, I think if you had the best 2 players bot lane they'd prolly just go ape shit on the bad bottom lane and hard carry.
I mean like... Pantheon is the highest winrate top laner right now and considering how popular shit like Maokai, Irelia, Darius, tank Fizz and Swain are there is a pretty high chance he lost lane come the 15 minute mark and all he really accomplished was winning bottom lane. When you look at OP.gg he has a relatively even keel winrate against them all.
And thats ignoring the champions he bodies like Fiora, Teemo, Trundle, Vlad, etc. I hope SmashGizmo is soft when he has to nerf Spartan.
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On June 16 2016 05:48 GrandInquisitor wrote:
It's like that old reddit discussion: if you had to have a Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Diamond player on your team, who would you assign to each role?
My view was that you'd want:
Bronze top
Diamond jungler
Platinum mid
Gold ADC
Silver support
provided that you could tell your players things like: "BronzieBob, play Malphite, SilverSam, play Sona". If you couldn't, then maybe swap the Bronze player to support and stick the Silver player in top.
sounds like our go4lol squad
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Sounds risky to put your shit player toplane just because I've seen so many people just get stomped and constantly zoned, then get 1v2d when the jungler comes. But, I suppose its hard to lose that hard if you just pick Maokai.
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On June 16 2016 06:56 cLutZ wrote:
Sounds risky to put your shit player toplane just because I've seen so many people just get stomped and constantly zoned, then get 1v2d when the jungler comes. But, I suppose its hard to lose that hard if you just pick Maokai.
It is very easy to get bopped with maokai wtf. It is just even easier to be useful even after you do it.
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who is this hypothetical team playing? If its vs the same you have to put the diamond player mid. The game would just be about elo boosted and thats easiest from mid lane (hi apdo).
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On June 16 2016 07:16 MuddyJam wrote:
who is this hypothetical team playing? If its vs the same you have to put the diamond player mid. The game would just be about elo boosted and thats easiest from mid lane (hi apdo).
I believe it is for a theoretical unranked to diamond
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On June 16 2016 06:40 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2016 05:48 GrandInquisitor wrote:It's like that old reddit discussion: if you had to have a Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Diamond player on your team, who would you assign to each role? + Show Spoiler +My view was that you'd want:
Bronze top
Diamond jungler
Platinum mid
Gold ADC
Silver support provided that you could tell your players things like: "BronzieBob, play Malphite, SilverSam, play Sona". If you couldn't, then maybe swap the Bronze player to support and stick the Silver player in top. sounds like our go4lol squad
A while back, I formed a team for a local LAN that had ELO/rank restrictions and won the thing. This was my recipe for success:
Bronze top
Plat jungle
Gold mid
Diamond ADC
Silver support
Put the Bronze player on a low skillcap tank like Malphite or Sion that can just soak damage and be a frontline. Never plays aggressive, tries to survive top as best as possible. Only engages when the team tells him to.
Put the Silver player on a easy peel support like Janna or Braum and just protect the ADC whos going to be our best player.
Put the Gold player with a waveclear control mage and focus on saving the tower and making sure the other mid laner doesnt roam, Ziggs, Lux, Viktor, Azir, Anivia with TP all work here.
Put the Plat player on an aggressive jungler like Lee sin or Elise and focus on containing the enemy jungle, counterjungling or getting deep wards in enemy jungle, and camping for bot lane to snowball.
Put the Diamond player on the most micro intensive role so he can hard carry on hyper-carry like Kalista or Twitch with good positioning in the mid to late game.
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On June 16 2016 07:27 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2016 07:16 MuddyJam wrote:
who is this hypothetical team playing? If its vs the same you have to put the diamond player mid. The game would just be about elo boosted and thats easiest from mid lane (hi apdo). I believe it is for a theoretical unranked to diamond
I assumed it was against a mirrored comp.
I guess it depends on how your team plays around your high elo player. Also probably depends on how much of a micromanager the high elo player is. I've played a normal with masters level players that don't communicate shit, I've also played a normal game with Hai and he straight up told me what kind of jungle pathing I should be taking every 30 seconds while managing to tell bot and top how to win their lanes and when they should be fighting while tracking their jungler... was pretty intense actually.
Also depends how receptive the plebs are to team play and getting carried. In my experience there are low elo players that suck at all variety of things while being pretty good at all variety of things as well.
Hell, in mid plat I see players all the time that refuse to get carried at all; I've also seen players who literally have no idea how to carry when they popping off and they only know how to enable carries. lol.
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The answer is that you put your mechanically strong relative to rank player at AD and your mechanically weak relative to rank at support and then the rest you can prioritize how you want.
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After playing some Nocturne I feel like if he received some mana buffs he would become fotm/op until nerfs. he just feels really strong until you cast your full suite of spells and spend 60% of your mana pool
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So, interesting tab added to the new alpha client this in this mornings update.
+ Show Spoiler +
Training mode eh? Sandbox mode inc?
The new rune pages are hella nice. It is intuitive to tell what each rune type is, and they are all different. Seems like they removed the old limited edition runes, but I think it is for the best. Like instead of Frosty HP Quints I have 2 sets of HP quint runes. Clarity is too stronk.
+ Show Spoiler +
Would be nice too if they made it immediately obvious for new players which runes in which slots had the most value (ie armor yellows > Armor reds) the way they did before, but I like it a lot.
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The lulu buffs look cool.
RIP Kindred though. Them Armor nerfs in conjunction with the heal loss takes away like 300 eHP in early game duels.
Last patch riot told kindred players they had to contest marks to be relevant. I have no idea how a kindred contests any marks against any of the top tier / popular junglers now. Like i think you just straight die to Reksai / Lee / Kha / Hec / Voli... and those champs combined are in a solid 70% of all games as per op.gg. I dunno man they seem huge.
I don't really think the clear would suffer at all even if they didn't add the monster slow on W, but removing the heal and chopping the armor so much at level 1 is looks kinda gross. Although the Nidalee nerfs seemed huge too, and tbh she actually feels about the same (if perhaps a touch clunky before level 6), maybe 10s slower in her clear.
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the Lulu buffs seem weird, when I read Faeny's post I assumed they were changing it to attack speed, but just adding it on top is kinda lol. Also a huge buff to her Q scaling.
seems like too much to me, but I'll take it.
I feel like Kindred is already def not op, can't comment much on the hero specifics but if they are nerfing her again I'm surprised.
Tham Kench looks like nerfs across the board not sure what the deal there is.
Leona looks.. interesting I actually clicked the link to read Smash's comments and the extended auto range does not work with Q so I'm not sure how this helps her get into games. She's already not popular, while this isn't a nerf numbers wise I'm not sure why making her burst lower in return for some move speed and auto range would do anything. It seems like it makes her worse at what she is good at without making her even average at something else. (sustain/poke)
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Doesn't seem like Kindred loses her ability to full clear while barely taking any damage for the people who know how to play her though
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Leona is going to be pretty neat. If you can land an E>W on 2 people, coupled with the root duration change you can probably auto>Q rather than straight up stunning if the E goes through to get off even bigger burst damage.
Tahm top is going to be pretty gross unfortunately 
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I don't think it changes her clear at all. Heal does basically nothing for the clear anyway. Maybe you need to start talisman instead of machete. I don't even think she needed the monster slow.
It's the skirmishing that scares me. When your all in loses two heals for 50 hp, and 7 armor (down to 20) across the 600 hp you have at low levels... this patch compared to next patch kindred will have like 300 less ehp at level 3-4. Even less if they run armor pen runes / masteries.
Kindred next patch would almost effectively be 1shot by a pantheon with tlords at level 3.
It looks like a huge nerf for a champion who has a real early game power curve. Kindreds lategame is pretty mediocre / bad depending on teamcomp.
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exp changes to limit snowballing and carry potential even more zzz
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On June 16 2016 13:11 Slusher wrote:
the Lulu buffs seem weird, when I read Faeny's post I assumed they were changing it to attack speed, but just adding it on top is kinda lol. Also a huge buff to her Q scaling.
seems like too much to me, but I'll take it.
Lulu buffs also seem odd to me. Glitterlance buff seems so odd considering the previous nerfs. To me it seems almost like a Riot intern has been living at the SKT house and every night Bang and Faker go into his room and talk to him in his sleep about the merits of a Lulu meta.
Also the AS buff seems totally out of line with their "less hidden power" stance.
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yea the challenger ad vs support isn't even a question. ad hands down. even diamond ad's can straight up 1v2 in bronze. hell sometimes i wished my support would actually afk so he wouldn't risk feeding kills and i just 1v2.
lulu buff makes no sense. even as someone who abused lulu to climb, those buffs are unnecessary. just some base stats would be nice so that she doesn't get 1 shot by irelia every time.
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On June 16 2016 15:25 dsyxelic wrote:
yea the challenger ad vs support isn't even a question. ad hands down. even diamond ad's can straight up 1v2 in bronze. hell sometimes i wished my support would actually afk so he wouldn't risk feeding kills and i just 1v2.
lulu buff makes no sense. even as someone who abused lulu to climb, those buffs are unnecessary. just some base stats would be nice so that she doesn't get 1 shot by irelia every time.
Even if they don't snowball off kills (which they will), the pure CS difference would mean they would be so far ahead as well.
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On June 16 2016 13:34 ticklishmusic wrote:
Doesn't seem like Kindred loses her ability to full clear while barely taking any damage for the people who know how to play her though
Yeah, but that same thing could be said to Elise players who know how to get the spiderlings to tank damage for her in the early clear, or knowing how to kite mobs back when Kayle Devourer jungle was a meta thing (admittedly for like 5 seconds, but it did exist at one point in time).
If you want to nerf Kindred (yet again, this is like the third or fourth nerf in a row she could get hit with) then have the heal scale with the marks or nerf the base armor, like they have right now. It does put a bit of too much weight on her getting the marks, but it emphasizes just how important they are for her to get. Otherwise people are just going to go full tank with her after getting Bloodrazor, be super annoying in team fights, darting around and taking no damage (while still dealing some thanks to the mark system), and then pop their ulti when they're about to die or kite through the enemy front line again and pop the ulti to save her team's ADC/mid.
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The Lulu Q change in my eyes is a nerf, not a buff, since it now deals only 70% dmg to targets after the first. It nerfs her waveclear but also her damage to champions in most cases - there are plenty of scenarios where your damage on champions isn't the first target hit, especially in teamfights.
On the surface it seems the intention is to make support Lulu stronger (more base mana and the new AS effect is not AP scaled) and mid Lulu weaker (weaker waveclear, and mids are likely to build Morello which has plenty of mana now). But my initial guess would be that both are weaker since both rely on Q to harass in lane and you'll need some kind of different build to take advantage of the new AS effect.
I'm interested in the Leona passive change - giving movement speed to her and her ally when her passive is proc'd sounds pretty powerful, actually. Helps both pursuit and disengage.
As a support player, I think I'll like the XP changes. It's pretty dangerous later in the game to be 5, 6 levels behind fed opposing solo laners.
The Tahm Kench changes reduce both the initial size of his active shield and the passive sustain. Given that his shield starts out smaller I don't think the "doesn't fall off over duration" is enough compensation and the CD reduction isn't that meaningful either, since you usually build up gray health over an extended period of time.
(passive sustain: ) new 70% x 25% < old 20% (at level 1 E), new 75% x 30% < old 26% (at level 2 E), etc.
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On June 16 2016 08:45 Goumindong wrote:
The answer is that you put your mechanically strong relative to rank player at AD and your mechanically weak relative to rank at support and then the rest you can prioritize how you want.
terms like mechanics are pretty pointless in league though
they dont help us at all
you dont have a mechanically strong player or mechanically weak player or what the the fuck you're talking about
realistically you put everyone on their main role and tell them to play passively with champs who can do that easily and have the best players try to carry
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With all this talk about Bronze ADC / Challenger Support vs Challenger ADC / Bronze Support, I pulled out an unranked smurf account I had.
Tanked as many placement matches as I could, went 3-7 actively feeding. Got placed in Bronze II.
I've played an additional 8 games as support. My research concludes a challenger Support would climb hella fast. LOL.
As an aside, I've noticed low Elo players respond and follow up much better to Blitz picks than literally any other pick. Its mid game, their mid pushed up past their tower with no wards, you have vision on the rest of their team derping around. As Blitz:
+ Show Spoiler +Your mid comes running. Jungler burns flash to get there. Dude dies instantly. Your whole team listens to your call to push an objective.
Ally Top: [ALL] THE MAGIC CALLS TO ME!
Ally Top: [ALL] GG EZ NUBS
Ally ADC: [ALL] This blitz is so beast wtf.
Ally Mid: [ALL] Is blitz Madlife? o.o
Ally Mid: [ALL] the hardest carry holy shit
Enemy Team: [ALL] Wow this is the worst bot lane I've ever seen.
Same play as any other support:
+ Show Spoiler +Junglers stays at raptors. Mid finishes pushing out wave that is being pulled towards him. You nearly kill the mid laner.
Ally mid signals that enemies are missing
Ally mid signals that enemies are missing
Ally mid signals that enemies are missing
Ally mid signals that enemies are missing
Ally mid signals that enemies are missing
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally top: [ALL] This -insert champ- LUL
Ally adc: not sure how I got this fed with such a bad sup player wtf.
Your mid laner finally shows up and kills their mid laner after 15 seconds.
No one listens to your objective call.
Games are easily carryable regardless, but its honestly the difference between a 17 minute game and a 30 minute game. I don't understand what exactly in their brain makes the big switch in attitude, but it is there. rofl.
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Blitz picks are better than any other pick...Maybe Urgot is similar in quality. So, there you have it.
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I agree Blitz picks are generally better than most champs picks, but I don't think they difference between blitz and the average support champ is that different in reality.
I've only played Blitz, Thresh, Ali, and Zyra. They all lock up the other guy for about the same time minus Zyra who just flat kills him. Especially in an elo where you can literally walk behind a guy and W delayed Q him so he is effectually hooked and Knocked up for longer than Blitz can hook a guy.
I assume blitz pull is just a more visceral "letsgobitches" skill. I just think its weird that they don't recognize how another support can do the same thing.
Also, skillshots are hard in bronze. No one jukes shit.
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On June 17 2016 06:24 iCanada wrote:With all this talk about Bronze ADC / Challenger Support vs Challenger ADC / Bronze Support, I pulled out an unranked smurf account I had. Tanked as many placement matches as I could, went 3-7 actively feeding. Got placed in Bronze II. I've played an additional 8 games as support. My research concludes a challenger Support would climb hella fast. LOL. As an aside, I've noticed low Elo players respond and follow up much better to Blitz picks than literally any other pick. Its mid game, their mid pushed up past their tower with no wards, you have vision on the rest of their team derping around. As Blitz: + Show Spoiler +Your mid comes running. Jungler burns flash to get there. Dude dies instantly. Your whole team listens to your call to push an objective.
Ally Top: [ALL] THE MAGIC CALLS TO ME!
Ally Top: [ALL] GG EZ NUBS
Ally ADC: [ALL] This blitz is so beast wtf.
Ally Mid: [ALL] Is blitz Madlife? o.o
Ally Mid: [ALL] the hardest carry holy shit
Enemy Team: [ALL] Wow this is the worst bot lane I've ever seen.
Same play as any other support: + Show Spoiler +Junglers stays at raptors. Mid finishes pushing out wave that is being pulled towards him. You nearly kill the mid laner.
Ally mid signals that enemies are missing
Ally mid signals that enemies are missing
Ally mid signals that enemies are missing
Ally mid signals that enemies are missing
Ally mid signals that enemies are missing
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally mid signals to be careful
Ally top: [ALL] This -insert champ- LUL
Ally adc: not sure how I got this fed with such a bad sup player wtf.
Your mid laner finally shows up and kills their mid laner after 15 seconds.
No one listens to your objective call. Games are easily carryable regardless, but its honestly the difference between a 17 minute game and a 30 minute game. I don't understand what exactly in their brain makes the big switch in attitude, but it is there. rofl.
yeah well blitz hook is an obvious way to gain kills so
well nobody said a challenger support wouldn't climb fast as fuck
we're saying if you burdened him with a bronze ADC in EVERY game regardless of elo he'd be fucked compared to the challenger adc with a bronze support
you can be a passable support if you don't take any risks do your warding decently and peel
you won't carry but it's passable and if you follow a challenger adc everywhere it's not that bad compared to a bronze adc who can't last hit dodge skillshots teamfight or position
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Yeah, tbh I think the Chalenger support + Bronze ADC probably hits a wall around high gold / low platinum where ADC's and teams start to get competent.
I bet the Challenger ADC probably skyrockets when he hits that same mark too.
I think the Challenger Supp prolly climbs to that point faster, would be my guess. I don't care how good an ADC is if a fed Master Yi (who probably feasted on the souls of a Malphite in some unimaginable terror lane phase) with a Taric are on your nuts you're dead.
I'd bet the ADC player loses 10 to 20% more games than the Support player just off of random shit ADC's can't deal with alone snowballing in ungodly ways on the way to around mid gold where players start to peel.
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lol i dont think the bronze yis are going to cause too much trouble
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"Bronze players aren't as awful" my experience with how bad people are in diamond would say otherwise.
Also pls picking a peel support in that elo if you are challenger is the most braindead thing you can do. Picking tf for the first time would make the game easier to win than picking soraka.
Support is an overvalued role if anything.
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On June 17 2016 07:16 iCanada wrote:
Yeah, tbh I think the Chalenger support + Bronze ADC probably hits a wall around high gold / low platinum where ADC's and teams start to get competent.
I bet the Challenger ADC probably skyrockets when he hits that same mark too.
I think the Challenger Supp prolly climbs to that point faster, would be my guess. I don't care how good an ADC is if a fed Master Yi (who probably feasted on the souls of a Malphite in some unimaginable terror lane phase) with a Taric are on your nuts you're dead.
I'd bet the ADC player loses 10 to 20% more games than the Support player just off of random shit ADC's can't deal with alone snowballing in ungodly ways on the way to around mid gold where players start to peel.
no.
If the support is the master they will have to play some blitz/apsupport and be on mic with there adc. You underestimate how bad you have to be to get stuck in bronze. We talking missing most cs, having no understanding on spacing/zoning plus missing skillshots.
If you flip it you can just dump the bronze player on soraka and the adc will just 1v2 the lane with caitlin. which they can probably do till low diamond. if you do mean a challenger level player. If they are mic'ed up and can back the support away from stupid shit they can just solo carry the tf as they will out huge amounts of damage.
Like people elo boost as ADC for a reason. Because you can solo win the game, its right up there with mid. You overestimate how good low elo players. And if a enemy low elo player gets fed they are way more prone to tilt/feed/throw/misplay than our adc. Do you think that gold yi has any idea how to play vs a good vayne? Like i play at low plat and people still cant insec kick or gangplank triple barrel.
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or play a cheesy mage support like brand and just farm champs instead of creeps
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For top lane if you kill your opponent pre 6 with ignite what should you do? This is happening often when I play Teemo. But they tp back to lane and end up getting a cs lead :/ If the lane is shoving into me what should iI do when I kill the laner?
Should I recall?
push? (teemo pushes v slowily pre 6)
sit and just lane with them having bought
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On June 17 2016 09:32 MuddyJam wrote:
For top lane if you kill your opponent pre 6 with ignite what should you do? This is happening often when I play Teemo. But they tp back to lane and end up getting a cs lead :/ If the lane is shoving into me what should iI do when I kill the laner?
Should I recall?
push? (teemo pushes v slowily pre 6)
sit and just lane with them having bought
Sounds to me like you need help with wave management. Give this playlist a watch:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzHaU28zdQ4GAMfVf_aASyiB4dheLsONx
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I know that Manco runs tp because he says it's too hard to gain an advantage with ignite vs. tp with teemo, although he isn't a top main.
the other challenger teemo otp ipav I haven't ever talked to, but his history shows all ghost.
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anybody thinking that the challenger playing support is better is underestimating the massive difference in cs/farming ability between bronze players and basically everyone in Plat+
in addition to the mechanical last hitting difference, most players at that level don't even really understand the concept that letting towers get waves full of solo gold and experience is bad.
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On June 17 2016 06:45 iCanada wrote:
I agree Blitz picks are generally better than most champs picks, but I don't think they difference between blitz and the average support champ is that different in reality.
I've only played Blitz, Thresh, Ali, and Zyra. They all lock up the other guy for about the same time minus Zyra who just flat kills him. Especially in an elo where you can literally walk behind a guy and W delayed Q him so he is effectually hooked and Knocked up for longer than Blitz can hook a guy.
I assume blitz pull is just a more visceral "letsgobitches" skill. I just think its weird that they don't recognize how another support can do the same thing.
Also, skillshots are hard in bronze. No one jukes shit.
Its not how long a person is locked up its where that makes blitz hooks so impactful. Its the difference between Headbutt>Pulv and Pulv>Headbutt. When the player is on your side of a wall, or knocked into your lap it is just sooo much easier to assess how to react than when it looks like your support might be overreaching, or just poking. Particularly if you aren't great at reading the minimap.
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I don't think the support is better, I think the support would climb slightly faster till about mid gold.
<_<
Not the same thing.
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implying either would lose a single game before that point, seems unlikely
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it isn't really that interesting actually considering we know how bad challenger level dynamic is and riot already admits it (even if they have overly elaborate ideas for fixing it). It would actually be more interesting if it focused different elo range or pretty much anything where the results aren't basically already known.
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On June 17 2016 12:12 iCanada wrote:
I don't think the support is better, I think the support would climb slightly faster till about mid gold.
<_<
Not the same thing.
Also wrong.
Source: every booster ever.
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On June 17 2016 11:33 Slusher wrote:
I know that Manco runs tp because he says it's too hard to gain an advantage with ignite vs. tp with teemo, although he isn't a top main.
the other challenger teemo otp ipav I haven't ever talked to, but his history shows all ghost.
who is Manco? Like i would vs a good player its hard to get an advantage but tp gank/flanks are useless on teemo has you have no cc. If you in a split push situation you are almost always better of pushing for the tower anyway as teemo shreds towers.
I've seen Korean teemos start taking it for bad match ups or are currently experimenting. At sub diamond though i imagine ignite is better as you will kill your laner because they never played the champion before. That or they definitely don't know the teemo matchup.
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On June 17 2016 18:57 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 12:12 iCanada wrote:
I don't think the support is better, I think the support would climb slightly faster till about mid gold.
<_<
Not the same thing. Also wrong. Source: every booster ever.
What? Pretty sure boosters play neither ADC nor Support.
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On June 17 2016 16:55 Slusher wrote:
it isn't really that interesting actually considering we know how bad challenger level dynamic is and riot already admits it (even if they have overly elaborate ideas for fixing it). It would actually be more interesting if it focused different elo range or pretty much anything where the results aren't basically already known.
Well the first part is that 5 man stacks rarely face other 5 man stacks and tend to destroy everything -- that we know and Riot has put bandaid fixes on. However, it looks like the bandaid fixes don't quite work -- even by limiting to 3 man stacks, it's still very difficult to match 3 man vs 3 man, where instead you have 3+X vs 5 solos almost half the time.
Also Riot's transparency on this issue has been abysmal, both in terms of communication, and in terms of attempted justification. They say "we have the numbers that say this is ok" without giving out what the actual numbers are, and this is at least one indication that those numbers aren't as great as Riot wants you to pretend they are. It also makes you question whether at more populated elos how well matchmaking actually happens, because even when they limit to 3 man stacks you have ~ 1/20 games of a pretty large mismatch. Maybe even in elo brack J with orders of magnitude more players, a 5 man stack will quite often be matched against not-a-5-stack with high chance to win.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On June 17 2016 21:33 Mikau wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 18:57 nafta wrote:On June 17 2016 12:12 iCanada wrote:
I don't think the support is better, I think the support would climb slightly faster till about mid gold.
<_<
Not the same thing. Also wrong. Source: every booster ever. What? Pretty sure boosters play neither ADC nor Support.
Definitely played with an ADC getting boosted yesterday. If you average 18/4/5 on Draven with a 100% winrate, you probably are not the same player that averages 4/7/5 on their main champ (Annie) with a 27% winrate.
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On June 18 2016 00:16 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 21:33 Mikau wrote:On June 17 2016 18:57 nafta wrote:On June 17 2016 12:12 iCanada wrote:
I don't think the support is better, I think the support would climb slightly faster till about mid gold.
<_<
Not the same thing. Also wrong. Source: every booster ever. What? Pretty sure boosters play neither ADC nor Support. Definitely played with an ADC getting boosted yesterday. If you average 18/4/5 on Draven with a 100% winrate, you probably are not the same player that averages 4/7/5 on their main champ (Annie) with a 27% winrate.
Nah. You just played with Fabbbyyy. :^)
I honestly dont think there'd be much of a difference inbetween win ratios for boosters playing the various roles. The games would just take longer as a support than the others. Time is money.
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On June 17 2016 09:32 MuddyJam wrote:
For top lane if you kill your opponent pre 6 with ignite what should you do? This is happening often when I play Teemo. But they tp back to lane and end up getting a cs lead :/ If the lane is shoving into me what should iI do when I kill the laner?
Should I recall?
push? (teemo pushes v slowily pre 6)
sit and just lane with them having bought
after you get a kill with teemo pre 6 against someone with TP there are a few options you can take but I'll only talk about the one I think is the most important:
->blue pill
->buy a dorans ring
->uninstall the game because you're a teemo player and you deserve better for yourself
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On June 17 2016 18:57 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 12:12 iCanada wrote:
I don't think the support is better, I think the support would climb slightly faster till about mid gold.
<_<
Not the same thing. Also wrong. Source: every booster ever.
Yea, as a support main, the idea that you can climb faster as a support is ridiculous. You're more at the mercy of other players even when you do play carry supports.
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You can climb just as fast as the other roles when you severely outclass your opponents(eg. diamond vs. bronze/silver) since there are 2 kills for you to get in lane instead of 1.
A carry support simply won't get the level of farm needed to 1v3 or 1v4 most games though once the skill differential lessens.
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On June 18 2016 00:16 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 21:33 Mikau wrote:On June 17 2016 18:57 nafta wrote:On June 17 2016 12:12 iCanada wrote:
I don't think the support is better, I think the support would climb slightly faster till about mid gold.
<_<
Not the same thing. Also wrong. Source: every booster ever. What? Pretty sure boosters play neither ADC nor Support. Definitely played with an ADC getting boosted yesterday. If you average 18/4/5 on Draven with a 100% winrate, you probably are not the same player that averages 4/7/5 on their main champ (Annie) with a 27% winrate.
Let's be real, Annie is so much harder to play than Draven.
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On June 18 2016 04:35 Amui wrote:
You can climb just as fast as the other roles when you severely outclass your opponents(eg. diamond vs. bronze/silver) since there are 2 kills for you to get in lane instead of 1.
A carry support simply won't get the level of farm needed to 1v3 or 1v4 most games though once the skill differential lessens.
Yea clearly you being tryndamere with 4 kills at 10 is the same as your ad having 4 kills at 10.
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would be trynd having 2 kills at 10 because half as many nubs to kill
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On June 18 2016 06:09 Slayer91 wrote:
would be trynd having 2 kills at 10 because half as many nubs to kill
Still better.
Also arguable cuz of junglers. Much easier to hold tower 2v2 compared to 1v1.
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I don't want to play Volibear anymore, but he is such freelo right now.
<_<
I can't even remember the last time I lost a game on him. Its been a couple months.
Speaking of which, has anyone done the math % health runes? How do those scale with Cinderhulk?
EDIT: Quick dirty math, Scaling HP is better except for before level 4, and after you already have 5 items (like Cinderhulk, DMP, Boots, SV, Randiuns) & SoA completed. And this is on Volibear. 90% of the game and most games you just straight up better with scaling.
When you consider like finished DMP early is the strongest you get in relative power terms, I think Scaling way better.
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Iirc when they were created or shortly after, people's math showed that they were pretty much always between flat health and health per level, as in you'd need an egregious amount of HP to beat scaling HP runes, while having worse efficiency for most of the game, to the point that it was more likely better to stick to scaling.
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On June 19 2016 06:30 Alaric wrote:
Iirc when they were created or shortly after, people's math showed that they were pretty much always between flat health and health per level, as in you'd need an egregious amount of HP to beat scaling HP runes, while having worse efficiency for most of the game, to the point that it was more likely better to stick to scaling.
Yeah, I made a spreadsheet, and tore some average XP/minute and GPM stats from op.gg on Volibear.
You straight up are better off having scaling HP till real far in the game unless you get real fed. On average gold/xp, Scaling is better after level 3 (2:30 minute mark) till the 33 minute mark. The average champion has less base HP, so it would take even longer and even more gold and time than it would for Volibear.
I think you can win most soloqueue games during that time, so I'd rather have the scaling HP runes. At this time I don't think are good. Unless you pick up like 4 kills early, and then you will outpreform the scaling HP, but at that point you could have AP runes and it don't matter.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I think that there might be some data collection issues on either Champion.gg, OP.GG, or both.
For example, Champion.gg lists Nunu as ranked dead last (#47) in jungle win rate with 45%: http://champion.gg/champion/Nunu/Jungle
While OP.GG lists Nunu as ranked #7 in jungle win rate with 52%: http://na.op.gg/champion/nunu/statistics/jungle
I understand that if they're harvesting different data there might be some small discrepancies in the overall results, but this is too big of a difference to attribute to just different samples.
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cause its NA data vs kr+eu+na data
non americans know nunu is garbage
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Just like how ranged supports are garbage. Who would pick Saraka or Nami?
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On June 20 2016 06:20 Slayer91 wrote:
cause its NA data vs kr+eu+na data
non americans know nunu is garbage
That's even more hilaroius. 52% in NA, 47% in KR, and 46% in EUW.
You could make an interesting League site based off of regional champ winrate differences.
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To be honest, i think the Nunu winrate is kind of statistically insignificant in either direction.
The 1500 games with Nunu across all regions is literally 10% of the total games with Kindred in just NA. The sample size is quite low.
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I honestly don't see how he could be good given the ADC meta we have. Plus, consume doesn't do a big enough % of big monsters HP to dick people hard enough.
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He can get tanky, deny the enemy jungle farm, and apply AS buffs/debuffs still right?
Seems plenty valuable to me if your team already has engage somewhere else.
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On June 20 2016 12:01 Goumindong wrote:
He can get tanky, deny the enemy jungle farm, and apply AS buffs/debuffs still right?
Seems plenty valuable to me if your team already has engage somewhere else.
The most popular ADCs don't get as much from Bloodboil, or lose as much from snowball as in most metas. Also his ability to deny farm is much lower now than any time in the past because most the other popular junglers now have very fast clears, and he needs to auto several times to clear big monsters so he can't just walk up> Snowball> Consume > walk away.
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AD isn't able to carry as well as last season, and a lot of AD"s now are more AD casterish with the auto-spell weaving style. AS is nice, but it's not as much of a priority as seen with the ghostblade + cleaver combo. Plus there's just too many other good picks out there.
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I think a lot of people underestimate how hard adcs carry.
Your adc has an item and a half advantage you win every fight straight up.
Pantheon is one of the winningest top lanes in the game right now while literally every other popular top laner in the game is shit that beats him in lane that I wouldn't have picked him into in the past. And yet he is still strong as hell because he auto wins bot lane and enables an ADC main to carry with item advantages. Irelia? Darius? Swain? Maokai? get me the fuck out of here I don't want to be against these champions. <_< Magically he loses lane wins game against all these champs by winning bot lane.
ADCs are real good and in a great spot right now. They don't 1v5 or 1v1 well, but they have a ridiculously huge effect on the game. It is real hard to win with a behind adc.
Hell, tank supports are much better than ranged supports for most of the game, but ranged support's win lane and largely most teams all over the world pick ranged supports. At 20 minutes if I have a choice between a godly thresh and a godly nami I take the thresh every time.
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On June 20 2016 07:22 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2016 06:20 Slayer91 wrote:
cause its NA data vs kr+eu+na data
non americans know nunu is garbage That's even more hilaroius. 52% in NA, 47% in KR, and 46% in EUW. You could make an interesting League site based off of regional champ winrate differences.
Sounds like na doesn't go to the disco as much.
Pretty sure thresh isn't a melee champ but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
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Wasn't Pantheon said to beat Darius? I'm pretty sure Neo and Loci said that before. Or maybe he's got too much sustain/base armour since the rework?
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The game in general is in a great state at the moment.
Alot of things work for competitive and every lane has potential to carry if needed.
I think Pantheon can maybe snowball pre 6, but as soon as Darius gets a phage/post 6 it shouldn't even be close. You'll just get run down from then on.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On June 20 2016 12:07 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2016 12:01 Goumindong wrote:
He can get tanky, deny the enemy jungle farm, and apply AS buffs/debuffs still right?
Seems plenty valuable to me if your team already has engage somewhere else. The most popular ADCs don't get as much from Bloodboil, or lose as much from snowball as in most metas. Also his ability to deny farm is much lower now than any time in the past because most the other popular junglers now have very fast clears, and he needs to auto several times to clear big monsters so he can't just walk up> Snowball> Consume > walk away.
He's definitely quite niche. You need a good teamcomp for him - his raison d'être is making your ADC huge through his obnoxious peel and big attack speed steroid. But it doesn't work if a) your ADC is Ezreal, or b) their divers are Malphite/Zac/etc. Ideally he's playing with a Vayne while against a Trundle / Shyvana / etc.
He is still great at controlling neutral objectives, but the whole counterjungling thing has been cut back a bit since his glory days when you could take all the big monsters and leave the other jungler struggling to hit level 2.
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On June 20 2016 15:38 iCanada wrote:
I think a lot of people underestimate how hard adcs carry.
Your adc has an item and a half advantage you win every fight straight up.
Pantheon is one of the winningest top lanes in the game right now while literally every other popular top laner in the game is shit that beats him in lane that I wouldn't have picked him into in the past. And yet he is still strong as hell because he auto wins bot lane and enables an ADC main to carry with item advantages. Irelia? Darius? Swain? Maokai? get me the fuck out of here I don't want to be against these champions. <_< Magically he loses lane wins game against all these champs by winning bot lane.
ADCs are real good and in a great spot right now. They don't 1v5 or 1v1 well, but they have a ridiculously huge effect on the game. It is real hard to win with a behind adc.
Hell, tank supports are much better than ranged supports for most of the game, but ranged support's win lane and largely most teams all over the world pick ranged supports. At 20 minutes if I have a choice between a godly thresh and a godly nami I take the thresh every time.
mate you just get one shot with adc if your team isn't protecting
nunu doesn't exactly provide useful peel for someone who's going to jump past your ult range and one shot adc
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On June 21 2016 02:32 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2016 15:38 iCanada wrote:
I think a lot of people underestimate how hard adcs carry.
Your adc has an item and a half advantage you win every fight straight up.
Pantheon is one of the winningest top lanes in the game right now while literally every other popular top laner in the game is shit that beats him in lane that I wouldn't have picked him into in the past. And yet he is still strong as hell because he auto wins bot lane and enables an ADC main to carry with item advantages. Irelia? Darius? Swain? Maokai? get me the fuck out of here I don't want to be against these champions. <_< Magically he loses lane wins game against all these champs by winning bot lane.
ADCs are real good and in a great spot right now. They don't 1v5 or 1v1 well, but they have a ridiculously huge effect on the game. It is real hard to win with a behind adc.
Hell, tank supports are much better than ranged supports for most of the game, but ranged support's win lane and largely most teams all over the world pick ranged supports. At 20 minutes if I have a choice between a godly thresh and a godly nami I take the thresh every time. mate you just get one shot with adc if your team isn't protecting nunu doesn't exactly provide useful peel for someone who's going to jump past your ult range and one shot adc
Who said anything about Nunu being good? I was just being an edgelord re the range support shit [G2-8 and all], and am just tired of people saying ADC's suck because they are really really good and are often what wins the game, in my experience.
Tbh I have no comment or real idea how good Nunu is. I havn't even seen one in a game in like 3 months.
On June 20 2016 21:50 Alaric wrote:
Wasn't Pantheon said to beat Darius? I'm pretty sure Neo and Loci said that before. Or maybe he's got too much sustain/base armour since the rework?
Matchup is way better now than before. Now Pantheon can snowball on Darius early, but if Pantheon doesn't snowball get away from him or he'll kill you. His base damages now aren't as ridiculous and his slow isn't as absurd, and they cut his base stats quite a bit. Certainly a much more manageable matchup now. You could probably dick him pretty hard with some jungler love to get you going.
Release Darius just kind of dicked all over Pantheon in that Darius hard killed Panth in all in's, and Pantheon couldn't just not fight Darius because at some point you would get pulled and auto-W'd then you can't run away and you're dead as shit. You had to somehow spear the minions to farm, harrass him so that he didn't want to fight, all while staying outside of Darius' 550 Apprehend range... even just spearing minions, if Darius wanted you he could get you. Even if you QWQE'd a Darius that EQ cancel>autoW'd you lost the trade by quite a bit in terms of both HP and mana.
If he didn't kill you pre-level 9, and you somehow were able to farm, Pantheon did alright against Darius, I guess. Honestly, I think I'd lose to a Darius in those days who was a full league and a half below my skill level. Maybe when you a god like Loci and everyone is a league and a half below your skill level it was okay. Literally I can't think of a single laning level where old Darius didn't just win fights.
I actually stopped playing Pantheon because of how oppressive that Matchup was. So did Smash, if I recall correctly. I think that is when he started to do the Nunu top shit.
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Look at them Taliyah Winrates.
http://www.op.gg/champion/taliyah/statistics/mid
http://na.op.gg/champion/taliyah/statistics/mid
http://euw.op.gg/champion/taliyah/statistics/mid
Looking at the mid matchups on Korean OP.GG.... Only lanes she doesn't completely take behind the wood shed pre-6 is Fizz, Zed, and Anivia (which I never though of, but makes sense. If she using threaded volley it is pretty easy to know where to shoot the ice ball... wherever you running to.). Everyone else she just bodies till they get ultimate. Looking at the CS vs gold graphs too, it kind of looks like she wins those lanes too, but them assassins just out roaming her pre-6.
Look them curves, I told you guys; She is old AP Sion, not Twisted Fate. Highest winrate in the game pre-30 minutes, falls off hard.
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I like it. Also her surfing passive is cool.
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as one trick panth (d5) my opinion on the darius match up is that it is actually winnable for panth if you take DFT and max Q. Up to lvl 4 you have to avoid fights at all costs, if he pulls you are are going to be shit on, your goal is to throw spears and farm as safe as possible and as much as you can. However, lvl 5 spear starts to wear him off and as absurd as it may sounds, you can poke and all in him at many points after lvl 5. Even after he is 6 you can poke him down if you are careful. This lasts for a long time, you can beat him until lvl 12-13 or even more, but if he doesnt get too much behind he counters panth in late teamfights, so the tables turn to darius side at the this point
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Yeah, he is pretty manageable right now. I think Tlords is better, even if you lose lane because of it, the extra gank power better imo. But you could be right that against Darius it the way to go. I'll try it out.
I just still have PTSD from release Darius whose bleed did like 40 magic damage over time from one auto / spell.
I'd still rather be shitting on a Fiora, or Fizz or something.
On June 21 2016 06:30 cLutZ wrote:
I like it. Also her surfing passive is cool.
Hell ya.
I like her a lot actually. Her combo still feels weird though.
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On June 22 2016 21:17 JimmiC wrote:
What is siege mode all about?
It's basically a mix of Black Market Brawlers and the escort mode in Overwatch.
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On June 22 2016 23:34 JimmiC wrote:
What's the escort mode?
Can't tell if serious or making a joke how nobody escorts the payload.
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at what elo do players understand basic minion wave control?
Running around in low plat and the number of junglers i'm seeing who screw over there top laner by pushing the lane is insane. This is only countered by most top laners also not know when it would be fine to freeze and instead will happy freeze the lane in front of your turret and get themselves ganked over and over.
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On June 23 2016 01:41 MuddyJam wrote:
at what elo do players understand basic minion wave control?
Running around in low plat and the number of junglers i'm seeing who screw over there top laner by pushing the lane is insane. This is only countered by most top laners also not know when it would be fine to freeze and instead will happy freeze the lane in front of your turret and get themselves ganked over and over.
mid/high diamond on NA.
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On June 23 2016 02:15 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2016 01:41 MuddyJam wrote:
at what elo do players understand basic minion wave control?
Running around in low plat and the number of junglers i'm seeing who screw over there top laner by pushing the lane is insane. This is only countered by most top laners also not know when it would be fine to freeze and instead will happy freeze the lane in front of your turret and get themselves ganked over and over. mid/high diamond on NA.
That must explain why after two videos about it from SRO I was shitting on kids farmwise.
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People understand the concept lower than that, we just bad at it. LOL.
It is also tilting off the face of the earth when you go to reset a wave and a guy spam back pings you 30 times to stop farming his shit.
I dunno, to me its kind of like taking TP on a top laner. I think all top laners should be able to take ignite, and chances are if a guy takes ignite and can win his lane with it he is doing good things even if the other guy makes a good TP gank bot. But your average bot lane will legit tilt out of the game if you dick their top laner by 50 creeps and take their tower if he just TP's bot and gets a kill.
Half the time, having a lane bitch about tax or some shit after a gank is not worth properly reseting lanes after ganks and shit. Just plat things.
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ignite isn't as useful as you think
like with junglers and shit you lose a lot not being able to tp back t olane
its good on some champs who cant tp gank well anyway though
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On June 23 2016 02:55 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2016 02:15 Frolossus wrote:On June 23 2016 01:41 MuddyJam wrote:
at what elo do players understand basic minion wave control?
Running around in low plat and the number of junglers i'm seeing who screw over there top laner by pushing the lane is insane. This is only countered by most top laners also not know when it would be fine to freeze and instead will happy freeze the lane in front of your turret and get themselves ganked over and over. mid/high diamond on NA. That must explain why after two videos about it from SRO I was shitting on kids farmwise.
i'm convinced his videos are the only reason that anyone below mid masters even knows about it
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Solo Renekton Only.
Challenger Renekton OTP on NA since S2.
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few renekton players have the strength of will to not always push the lane no matter what
im blessed by this fact
and yeah you dont need to watch videos to understand lane control
just use your brain mates
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United States37500 Posts
On June 23 2016 03:55 Slayer91 wrote:
few renekton players have the strength of will to not always push the lane no matter what
im blessed by this fact
and yeah you dont need to watch videos to understand lane control
just use your brain mates
Have you seen silver/gold elo games? l0l
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You should spectate my games.
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On June 23 2016 03:50 Slayer91 wrote:
ignite isn't as useful as you think
like with junglers and shit you lose a lot not being able to tp back t olane
its good on some champs who cant tp gank well anyway though
Honestly ignite is only good if your opponent is a retard. Which to be fair has a good chance of happening cuz soloq but still.
On June 23 2016 05:50 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2016 03:55 Slayer91 wrote:
few renekton players have the strength of will to not always push the lane no matter what
im blessed by this fact
and yeah you dont need to watch videos to understand lane control
just use your brain mates Have you seen any League of Legends games? l0l
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Protobelt Elise is hilarious.
100 to 0'ing a 200 MR Tree with EQW>Belt>RWQ is about as beast as it gets. Cocoon makes landing that 800 magic damage shotgun blast retard proof.
Its also beast because it allows you to E people from like 50 range, and any retard can hit E from 50 range. Including me.
On June 23 2016 07:55 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2016 03:50 Slayer91 wrote:
ignite isn't as useful as you think
like with junglers and shit you lose a lot not being able to tp back t olane
its good on some champs who cant tp gank well anyway though Honestly ignite is only good if your opponent is a retard. Which to be fair has a good chance of happening cuz soloq but still. Show nested quote +On June 23 2016 05:50 NeoIllusions wrote:On June 23 2016 03:55 Slayer91 wrote:
few renekton players have the strength of will to not always push the lane no matter what
im blessed by this fact
and yeah you dont need to watch videos to understand lane control
just use your brain mates Have you seen any League of Legends games? l0l
What kind of soloqueue player sees his lane opponent has a combat summoner when he doesn't and then proceeds not to all in and die? They like mythical unicorns, don't exist.
Then in chat:
LOL
Fuck i woulda killed that noob if he didn't exhaust.
Unlucky.
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Just had an ARAM where I never died on Ezreal but only got an A+ because my damage was shit due to only having Tear/Boots. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIP.
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On June 23 2016 09:13 iCanada wrote:Protobelt Elise is hilarious. 100 to 0'ing a 200 MR Tree with EQW>Belt>RWQ is about as beast as it gets. Cocoon makes landing that 800 magic damage shotgun blast retard proof. Its also beast because it allows you to E people from like 50 range, and any retard can hit E from 50 range. Including me. Show nested quote +On June 23 2016 07:55 nafta wrote:On June 23 2016 03:50 Slayer91 wrote:
ignite isn't as useful as you think
like with junglers and shit you lose a lot not being able to tp back t olane
its good on some champs who cant tp gank well anyway though Honestly ignite is only good if your opponent is a retard. Which to be fair has a good chance of happening cuz soloq but still. On June 23 2016 05:50 NeoIllusions wrote:On June 23 2016 03:55 Slayer91 wrote:
few renekton players have the strength of will to not always push the lane no matter what
im blessed by this fact
and yeah you dont need to watch videos to understand lane control
just use your brain mates Have you seen any League of Legends games? l0l What kind of soloqueue player sees his lane opponent has a combat summoner when he doesn't and then proceeds not to all in and die? They like mythical unicorns, don't exist. Then in chat: LOL Fuck i woulda killed that noob if he didn't exhaust. Unlucky.
I'm a unicorn! :D
When I'm not supporting "Always play like a wimp, never not play like a wimp" is my motto, not making plays is the easiest way to win sololanes.
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On June 23 2016 12:05 Gahlo wrote:
Just had an ARAM where I never died on Ezreal but only got an A+ because my damage was shit due to only having Tear/Boots. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIP.
gotta suicide into turrets git gud
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On June 23 2016 22:55 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2016 12:05 Gahlo wrote:
Just had an ARAM where I never died on Ezreal but only got an A+ because my damage was shit due to only having Tear/Boots. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIP. gotta suicide into turrets git gud
Was trying to see how long I could go without dying.
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In this case the score was correct, not dying in ARAM is actually bad play.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On June 24 2016 05:20 Slusher wrote:
In this case the score was correct, not dying in ARAM is actually bad play.
top 3 ARAM skills
3. knowing how to play champions (and how to reroll) pre-6 and post-6
2. knowing how and when to die
1. making sure someone on the team has locket
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Also, if you melee buy the minion execute gold item.
If you don't buy that shit you confirmed bad. Targons embrace sustain procs and wave clear is sooo good for 90% of melee champs pre-6 phase.
You don't need rerolls near as bad if you just buy the item. It also gives extra gold, so I don't get why people don't buy it. Dumb.
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I don't think Targons is that cut and dry. Pre-6 doesn't matter nearly as much as it used to because of the speed buff after respawning and the actual stats Targons gives without counting the gold generation are pretty garbage. The health gained with the execute is nice, but it also tends to be a trap because you're probably going to have to take damage to ever get it in the first place.
So unless your team's waveclear is utter trash, I'd rather just spend the money elsewhere 80% of the time. If anything I see too many people tunnel onto it when they desperately needs actual stats.
Although if you have good strong carries Face of the Mountain is never bad, so meh.
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targons is good if you'll build some sort of tankiness. assassin and fighter champs shouldnt.
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No there are a lot of comps where you straight up need the execute. I don't think you build Targons on a Fighter, but IMO you should atleast be getting the Relic Shield and extra pots in lieu of one of your Doran's Items. 80 HP per minute is huge for a 350 HP item, especially when your champ personally doesn't want to fight early.
I think it depends more on skirmishing / waveclear. If you are Pantheon / Lee Sin you don't need. However if you are like Riven / Vi / Jax I think you want it because you are only fighting on those champs if your opponent fucks up real hard, otherwise you can't trade without fully commiting and probably dying because your engage sucks. So mean while you just getting poked and poked.
Its better to buy it and waste maybe 150 gold worth of stats than to not buy it and lack the waveclear / sustain. Even if your champ doesn't need it nothing else is near as good for the gold. 75 HP is worth what, 200 or so gold? I'd pay easily double 150 gold just for the execute / heal. It is that good. Straight up Spoils of War gives your team more healing than a potion every minute! if you don't die for 4 waves it pays for itself in potion sustain, and it gives you gold to pay for itself after just 5 waves.
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But you still have to auto minions, which exposes you to more damage than you would be facing otherwise more often than not. So if you care about surviving against poke, a refillable flask is arguably much better early on because you're not opening yourself up to more damage. 200 gold is a lot early when that's 2/3rds a cloth armor or about half a null magic mantle. Targon's is great sometimes, but it is not a "you must buy this with every melee champion" item.
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If you have melee champs and they don't, the other team probably has much more waveclear than you and you will be under your tower.
It is very much a must buy.
The gold you spend on the passive is only 150. Its 1/2 a cloth or 1/3 of a null magic. Legit Relic Shield gives you more eHP as a melee when you want to fight than if you bought anything else for 350 gold. Except maybe 5 potions.
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Honestly, all of the T1 support items should be bought in ARAMs.
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Everyone start relic shield in ARAM, including adcs and mages, and you yell at them if they dont. You legit double the gold generated from creeps, save a ton of mana, push harder and the sustain really adds up when you have 5 members spam procing it.
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being the harder pushing team in the first few levels of aram is actually really meaningful, the tower chip can end up being very significant.
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i legit cant remember the last time i played aram on purpose
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how come shen is perma pick/ban in LCS again? he was not touched for months, if anything tank items/masteries were kind of nerfed and suddenly he is a top pick
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He's not perma picked/banned, but he got some popularity for splitpush/pick comps, because his ult can be used for ambushes or to try and force dragons early since you don't need TP and don't commit if you ult down bot.
Also in protect the AD comps (such as the Jhin ones).
Seeing less full tanks and more bruisers top, pick junglers like Elise, and generally more emphasis on marksmen (not in a "camp their lane to get them ahead" sense and more a "keep them alive to do the job") is what made his utility useful again.
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Recently saw skarner in a few LPL games. Casters didn't like it, but I do notice he has very high win rates in solo queue. Whats up with him and what makes him good right now?
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On June 26 2016 06:45 General_Winter wrote:
Recently saw skarner in a few LPL games. Casters didn't like it, but I do notice he has very high win rates in solo queue. Whats up with him and what makes him good right now?
Soloq probably hates QSS now because it doesn't get rid of debuffs anymore.
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i mean it doesn't work on skarner ult anymore..
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He is a tank who doesn't auto get destroyed by trinity carries / Trundle (shen)
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Does anyone else find duo-queuing really hard nowadays? I'm in Gold, with a friend in Silver. When we play by ourselves, we tend to have a positive win-rate (like 60-70%), but when we team up, it feels like we win 40% at best. I tend to play Mid/Top, while he Jungles. Any ideas/tips?
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On June 26 2016 11:51 Tal wrote:
Does anyone else find duo-queuing really hard nowadays? I'm in Gold, with a friend in Silver. When we play by ourselves, we tend to have a positive win-rate (like 60-70%), but when we team up, it feels like we win 40% at best. I tend to play Mid/Top, while he Jungles. Any ideas/tips?
i have the same problem.
i climb the ladder quite easily on my own and the moment i duo with my friend (whos in silver) i lose all my lp points and i end up back where i started.
ive just started assuming its because my friend is shit, though i dont understand why the opposing team doesnt have someone as bad as him if the teams are supposed to be even
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rito punishes duo q and trio q's really hard to compensate for people super tryharding or boosting with duos to climb elo
we've all had the same experience
if you play with your friends you are punished a lot
your team will be much worse than the enemy team
like people say 50 elo points means nothing but it fucking does
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Wtf, the enemy team has duo trio etc., as well, why you should be the punished team, but not the enemies? whats the difference, what you are saying doesn't make sense
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Sometimes it matches two duos. You and your friend on your team and boosted Bob plus smurfing challenger on the other team.
When people Elo boost, duos are one of the ways it happens and it screws up the system and the calibration of the system. Bob + surfing challenger look like silver and gold but they crush all the even Elo teams, to riot algorithm learned that there is massive synergy between silver and gold duos and so it matches them against much stronger opposition.
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This isn't very reassuring haha. So basically we just have to accept we will struggle to win games if we want to play together?
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On June 26 2016 21:36 M2 wrote:
Wtf, the enemy team has duo trio etc., as well, why you should be the punished team, but not the enemies? whats the difference, what you are saying doesn't make sense
if you are duo queue theres a chance you play against other duos as a duo which is fair
if you go solo queue there is a higher chance that you are 5 solos vs duos which is good for your winrate
or you get matched with duos vs duos both lower than your skill level making it easier to personally carry
this shit is real my solo q winrate whne im not playing like ass is much higher even discounting how bad my duos tend to be
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the real victims are the players that get stuck with the duo/trio on their team, they get the harder opposition but none of the communication or social benefits of playing with their friends.
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On June 26 2016 21:50 Tal wrote:
This isn't very reassuring haha. So basically we just have to accept we will struggle to win games if we want to play together?
I have a slightly higher win ratio playing premade, but I play very different when solo vs premade. I dont find it harder at all.
Are you playing with a soloQ mindset or pre-made mindset? Playing with premades is an entirely different beast. If you're premade you abuse voicecom and focus everything on snowballing each other, two fed premades can make much bigger plays than two fed soloQs.
It's much easier for premade botlane compared to soloQ botlane to 2v5 since the adc can rely 100% on the support to do everything to keep him safe, while the support can rely on the adc to man up and do adc things. Likewise if you're jungling+X your ganks are so much stronger in that lane, just like your roams from mid to your premade.
Abuse being coordinated as hard as humanly possible, your premade opponents are going to too and if you dont you are putting yourself and your team on a huge disadvantage.
It's a way different game the more premades you are, and why I miss ranked 5s so much. :'(
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On June 26 2016 21:50 Tal wrote:
This isn't very reassuring haha. So basically we just have to accept we will struggle to win games if we want to play together?
you guys will just have to git gud
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On June 26 2016 22:48 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 21:50 Tal wrote:
This isn't very reassuring haha. So basically we just have to accept we will struggle to win games if we want to play together? I have a slightly higher win ratio playing premade, but I play very different when solo vs premade. I dont find it harder at all. Are you playing with a soloQ mindset or pre-made mindset? Playing with premades is an entirely different beast. If you're premade you abuse voicecom and focus everything on snowballing each other, two fed premades can make much bigger plays than two fed soloQs. It's much easier for premade botlane compared to soloQ botlane to 2v5 since the adc can rely 100% on the support to do everything to keep him safe, while the support can rely on the adc to man up and do adc things. Likewise if you're jungling+X your ganks are so much stronger in that lane, just like your roams from mid to your premade. Abuse being coordinated as hard as humanly possible, your premade opponents are going to too and if you dont you are putting yourself and your team on a huge disadvantage. It's a way different game the more premades you are, and why I miss ranked 5s so much. :'(
Can't say I have the same experience. I honestly can't tell the difference if people are premade or not unless it is at least a mid master premade. Especially bot lane is the same shit.
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you can't tell who the premades are but you can definitely tell your teammates on average are doing much worse than they usually do
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On June 27 2016 00:35 Slayer91 wrote:
you can't tell who the premades are but you can definitely tell your teammates on average are doing much worse than they usually do
Well mostly been duoing with killerdog this season so wouldn't say that is a surprise.
Every other time I played premade we just go on a turbo trolling spree.
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On June 26 2016 22:48 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 21:50 Tal wrote:
This isn't very reassuring haha. So basically we just have to accept we will struggle to win games if we want to play together? I have a slightly higher win ratio playing premade, but I play very different when solo vs premade. I dont find it harder at all. Are you playing with a soloQ mindset or pre-made mindset? Playing with premades is an entirely different beast. If you're premade you abuse voicecom and focus everything on snowballing each other, two fed premades can make much bigger plays than two fed soloQs. It's much easier for premade botlane compared to soloQ botlane to 2v5 since the adc can rely 100% on the support to do everything to keep him safe, while the support can rely on the adc to man up and do adc things. Likewise if you're jungling+X your ganks are so much stronger in that lane, just like your roams from mid to your premade. Abuse being coordinated as hard as humanly possible, your premade opponents are going to too and if you dont you are putting yourself and your team on a huge disadvantage. It's a way different game the more premades you are, and why I miss ranked 5s so much. :'(
This seems like great advice for two players who are at roughly the same level. But it's very hard for my friend to snowball, as most of the time he will be playing against people as good as if not better than himself. We almost never both get fed, even when we win.
Cool to hear about your winrate - we will try communicating better...there's always room for improvement.
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Im with Faeny the dmg drop off deletes her from solo lanes. Do these buffs make her a good support? Maybe if the top tier ranged supports get nerfed but not as is i don't think.
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Wasn't Ryze just updated like last year? What's up with this?
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United States15536 Posts
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Zzz. That is not Ryze. That is a new champion. I suppose, at least, that they realized that they needed to change Q from being the worst spell in the game to not the worst spell in the game.
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United States37500 Posts
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r1wbd30.png)
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