On December 11 2015 00:36 GrandInquisitor wrote: Ten TLD is probably a sign of groupthink more than actual OPness.
For example I don't see enough people taking Grasp of the Bullshit despite it being simultaneously one of the best sustain and damage masteries in lane. On Trundle at level one, it's +15AD and 25% lifesteal for that AA. That's insane! Imagine if the tooltip said, every four seconds, your next AA against a champion is empowered as if you had two Doran's Blades plus the lifesteal of two BotRKs -- at level one!
its because you're biased, trundle and nasus are some of the champs it is extremely good on aka outliers.
very few champs want to go 18 into resolve, its incredibly bad if you arent an auto attacking bruiser.
but yes grasp is pretty much the only good mastery left. but who would ever take that besides top laners and a few junglers..?
Thunderlords is good on everyone and everything, hell i've even seen trundle and nasus' take it and do just fine.
That is the problem.
See I think Resolve actually has by far the best keystone masteries. The three are all meant for tanky champs only, but there are compelling reasons for nearly every tank to take any of the three. (Or there will be, as soon as Strength of Ages is buffed a bit w/r/t siege minions.) It's a question of playstyle, and Grasp/Strength/Bond are all nice in their own ways.
Cunning is not terrible in that regard, except for the fact that Windspeaker's Blessing is completely useless on the vast majority of champs. But the Stormraider's Surge vs. Thunderlord's Decree is in theory a great tradeoff - were it not for the fact that your average player will never really care about anything other than damage, since so long as there is any option that reads DO EXTRA DAMAGE they will always take it.
Ferocity is the worst in the regard, insofar as BOTH Warlord's Bloodlust and Fervor are useless on the vast majority of champs. But I suspect that even if Precision hadn't been buffed, and Deathfire Touch nerfed, you'd still see Thunderlord's Decree on the vast majority of masteries, simply because it has a cool damage effect.
Ultimately the only way to fix this is is to get rid of pure damage keystones. Replace TLD with something like Expose Weakness, and replace Deathfire Touch with Spellblade, and I think you will see a lot more variety in keystones than if you just straight-up nerf TLD.
This makes a lot of sense and seems like a rather good solution to the problem. I assumed that Keystone masteries were going to be more about "altering play through weird effects" but instead they just put a bunch of pure damage ones in which felt really weird.
I agree that resolve has the best overall tree for keystones but overall its a terrible tree for the majority of champs.
and I completely disagree with your assessment of thunderlords, the NA vs EU all stars game they were NOT fucking around minus dyrus and there was a billion thunderlords. they aren't taking it cause "lol leet damages" people are taking it because it is the best option to win...
Praise be to Thunderlords. This is not a balance problem, its a balance solution. No more wasting time on out of game choices aside from whether I play Olaf or Jax.
I super agree with the idea that resolve has the best keystones and Ferocity has the worst.
Warlords is fine, but Fervor and DFT work in such a way that they're fairly identical and a given champ is probably only going to want one of them and never want the other. So, with a couple exceptions, its sort of like Ferocity only has two keystones ATM.
I don't think looking at pro games, especially NA vs EU, is going to prove to be a great indicator of mastery strength. Progamers have historically not been great at optimizing masteries outside of Korea.
I think having keystones that do damage is fine. But having masteries with huge amounts of hidden power like Precision is counterintuitive to their design goals.
Precision is stronger than both tier 5 Ferocity masteries put together, and that's not immediately clear till you do math to find it out. And due to the early game impact of Precision, its not just stronger, its much stronger.
Its also not immediately clear whether it's Thunderlords making the big damage difference or precision. I'd wager I could do a lot of math to show you that Thunderlords and DFT are adding similar amounts of damage on a majority of champions, but it won't seem like that in a live game due to how overtuned Precision is.
Unfortunately for Riot, the solution I think is likely to nerf Precision a lot, and then subsequently buff every Assassin in the game.
The other solution might be to remove DFT from the game, put Thunderlords in Ferocity, and add another utility keystone to Cunning, but I don't think that's what they want to do. Even if they did that I think it might just make Stormraider surge super popular just because Precision.
I'm interested in seeing what they actually end up doing.
The assassin problem is peel is too strong in this game. Excluding a few champs like rengar/talon/leblanc(if ahead) none of the assassins have a kit good enough to deal with it. They need items to do that job or hard nerfs to every single peeler. Also exhaust... And at any point that assassins start becoming relevant people are just gonna start picking kayle and zilean again who are both viable with some changes now....
Why do you keep talking like nobody knows precision is broken?
Speaking of pros being bad at masteries I just saw febiven take 5% cdr over precision on vayne. Maybe people are that retarded.
Pretty sure it was. The shurima shift was way too inconsistent before, and after removing a lot of Azir's straight power, they probably want to give him some more hidden power.
On December 12 2015 06:34 Nos- wrote: Just play against your friends and shit on them so they know they're not good instead of having some excuse to blame other people.
Nah, people with external locus of control just continue making excuses as to why they're stuck in the ELO they're in.
They'll bitch about rng when you crit, or they'll bitch about luckerdog minion damage, or whatever bullshit they can make up.
Lost lane to Draven as Irelia when he crit me on his fourth auto at level 1 (then later during an all-in at level 6 that turned a kill into a death), can confirm. o/ Well to be fair he had 5% crit in his runes. And our Elise got crit twice in three attacks from that a bit later, so he can def' bitch more than me.
On December 12 2015 07:03 Alaric wrote: Lost lane to Draven as Irelia when he crit me on his fourth auto at level 1 (then later during an all-in at level 6 that turned a kill into a death), can confirm. o/ Well to be fair he had 5% crit in his runes. And our Elise got crit twice in three attacks from that a bit later, so he can def' bitch more than me.
I mean, JimmiC was being nice, trying not to out you as his crappy bronze friend....
EPT
