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On January 13 2016 09:18 Kinie wrote:
Jhin's ult looks to have a longer range than Caitlyn's ult range, so that's kinda bullshit. Why can't we just move his ult over to Cait's and have his ult be something else?
Without seeing numbers we don't know how the stuff scales. I think I like the 4 shot ammo system, and his W is literally a longer range Lucian Q. The lane phase for him looks like it'll be rough, but team fights will probably be him doing shit loads of damage so long as the reload time/animation isn't too long.
Edit:
Spitballing an idea out for a better Jhin ult: he marks them with a flower, dealing increased damage to the target over an increasing scaling duration (so like 4/8/12s at level 6/11/16). If the marked target is killed, the flower explodes in a AoE burst around them, dealing more damage if Jhin's the one who killed the marked target.
Inverted old Poppy ult would be neat. Target someone, Jhin does no damage to anyone else until target dies, but jhin gains vision over the target and greatly increased range when attacking them Could even do something like grant 100% bonus armor pen or 50/65/80 or whatever.
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Talking about facts while waving around a vague "marksmen item" to reach your arbitrary high number of 20 isn't necessarily the best way to make the discussion progress, though. I could just throw a bunch of names around with a role moniker but it wouldn't resolve anything.
BT has been nerfed and is basically only bought before 3rd item when a fed Draven or MF wants to have fun, BotRK has fallen off the face of the earth, PD isn't seen at all, ER is only the common choice because it provides better stats than IE as a 1st item while having a smoother build path and basically providing free capped CDR, so even if you aren't Lucian, Corki or Ezreal, why pass it up?
You still sometimes get IE 1st because it'll be stronger at the 2-items timing (and stuff like Cait doesn't get much out of CDR outside of fringe W/E cases).
Kalista and Kindred, who used to be able to get by without crit, can't not have it now.
Plus calling LW and its upgrades 3 different items is stretching it, they're the only %ArPen item with a very specific case for one variant over the other, considering they have the same stats.
Or at this rate BC is also a marksman item, and Morello is a support item since it has the same stats as FQC, and void staff is a mage item even though you'll pretty much only build it on carries.
"Inverted Poppy ult" wouldn't work well on a carry I feel. It's basically an insurance that you're gonna destroy that guy who's trying to dive you, even on tanks just trying to stall you it'd be very effective and ensure you'd be 5v4 if an ally does the same.
If you're ahead, such an ult means that as long as you team can prevent a Rengar from being pulled on you, it would be really really hard to shut you down.
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New champ's W looks absurdly broken. An ADC should not be able to snare someone for that long from that kind of range.
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chest system sounds neat on paper but i really want to see what their solutions is for people that already have all the characters
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On January 13 2016 11:33 Frolossus wrote:
chest system sounds neat on paper but i really want to see what their solutions is for people that already have all the characters
as a player who owns all characters what I want more than anything is an authentication app for my phone, similar to blizzard.(basically the same thing) That shits worth a lot of my time or a stupid amount of money.
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That new Jihn passive - feels like lol has really jumped the shark with that one. Why the fuck does a stat need to be changed into another stat, then you get bursts of that original stat with another condition, and so many layers of vague, unclear, interacting variables...
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On January 13 2016 14:32 Faeny wrote:
That new Jihn passive - feels like lol has really jumped the shark with that one. Why the fuck does a stat need to be changed into another stat, then you get bursts of that original stat with another condition, and so many layers of vague, unclear, interacting variables...
Can I be honest? I don't mind. As long as they utilize this kind of unique scaling to make him either a hypercarry or a 1-item timing powerspike type character. The only thing I don't like is his sound effects. But, if he is basically a weirdo Lucian-Graves-Cait mashup just give up Riot.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
You guys have to remember that Rito mentioned in champion reveal that Jhin's attack range is AVERAGE at best, so he won't be a lane dominant champ, unless he have some bonkers numbers on his skills.
Also crafting and looting, LOL. Seems like Rito is going Valve's way and aims for more $$ income.
Edit : Also apparently Gypsy claims that he was oryginally designed for duo bot lane but he has a feeling it might be a mid lane champ too.
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>ninja that tanks
>sword that gives a shield.
>ninja that now uses mystical sword to magically cause attacks to miss in a zone.
jesus, what a terrible character design.
At least the old Shen was just "ninja that tanks". this one is just awful.
this is the epitome of terrible character design.
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Why friggin %max HP damage again? Geez.
Apparently he can only move his blade around through Q and R, and the plan seems to be "have your blade near you -> E an enemy so you pass through them -> Q to hit them and get the increased damage", and you can W if they decide to stay here and trade with you.
If you didn't push the wave too hard, then the blade will end up in the back of your opponent, forcing them to move around to prevent a quick Q from you. He's also more about stopping damage than sustaining it back, and in lane it's reliant on him actually hitting his Q.
See, apart from the %max HP damage spam, that's actually a kit that's both clear and simple, with depth to its usage, and W is easy to balance because of the levers (cost, duration, radius, possible cast time, or simply making the blade harder to move around so you're punished if you misposition/commit too deep and your allies end up needing the buff).
I also assume his blade will be harder to position properly than Orianna's ball, since with all the damage loaded onto it Riot can't afford to give it too short a cooldown. If you Q just to reposition the blade, you'll have to wait a bit before you can commit to a trade.
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Shen's W could have used a slight buff because it's a pretty useless ability but I was pretty happy with old Shen honestly
Great, another special snowflake champion with his own unique mechanic/ minigame
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I mean obviously we complain a lot, but that is a legitimately terrible rework. Kept the most frustrating thing about him (his R) in the game and turned his Q and W into another generic 3 hit thing and they brought Jax's old E back into the game except its AOE?
Seems more like an olddate instead of an update, like shen went back to the stone age or something.
How is getting a shield when you use abilities and having less control over its activation more "skill intensive" then a shield you activate on reflex?
that just scratches the surface of the hypocrisy in this rework.
as a side note, looks strong. They kept everything that made shen really good and gave his bad abilities more hidden power
Edit - Say hi to morgana/shen + hypercarry btw, Cant hit with spells or auto attacks HURRDURR
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Their own fucking highlight text is "we wanted to give Shen and his opponent more things to do and think about during each game". I mean, okay. Make his old W apply the shield if he takes damage in the next 1 second, you know, like a feint. make his Q a skill shot. Boom, now he has more to think about and so his his opponent, he also has more to do, and doesn't lose depth. Yes his depth was subtle, but it still was there. Now it's very blunt, very shallow. a big puddle instead of a deep well. Instead of "well this is a hard matchup, so i'll need to use my Q for it's healing, and feint exactly the right ability, and preferably do so during an auto attack so i get the passive bonus" it's "well i guess i'll make myself immune to auto attacks when they go in and then pull my sword to me afterwards to block their next attacks and when they retreat use my E" Oh, and what if the matchup is bad? well i guess i'll make myself immune to auto attacks when they go in, then pull my sword to me for the shield and trade back and retreat with my E" Yeah that's totally something new to think about.
Giving a character a bunch of different sized and shaped clubs doesn't make a character more deep riot. they still are bashing something with a club over and over.
His Q is binary as well. Either it's dangerous enough that an opponent will back off from him if they can't trade with abilities vs it, resulting in a passive lane, or it's weak enough that his opponent will just trade through it and be fine, and never care about the positioning ignoring it completely. that'll make balancing it a nightmare.
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They used a Jian sword design for a NINJA, a historically chinese sword design.
Pretty triggered by this champ change.
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Wait so they're giving a support an ability that makes his ADC dodge all autos? That seems pretty broken for laning lol.
His new Q seems really clunky, although I guess when we see numbers it'll probably end up in such a way that even if you dont hit Q you can still outtrade with just the %max HP autos.
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This also means jungle Shen is probably dead : (
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Wait. His old Q had some neat interactions with other champions, but ultimately it was basically a point-and-click damage ability with some bells and whistles attached.
His new Q is an auto attack steroid with some bells and whistles attached.... riot plz.\
Old: point and click damage, has 2 different ways to heal, whether you kill with it for a small burst heal, or follow up with attack to heal more over time.
New: Auto attack steroid, even more of a steroid if you play the mini-game and pass it through the opponent.
Old one had choices to be made about its use, new one has a clear best use and a clear failed use.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Welcome to LiquidLegends, where no one knows what the fuck we're talking about, except that we all know that every new thing from Riot is literally garbage all the time.
On January 14 2016 04:18 VayneAuthority wrote:
I mean obviously we complain a lot, but that is a legitimately terrible rework. Kept the most frustrating thing about him (his R) in the game and turned his Q and W into another generic 3 hit thing and they brought Jax's old E back into the game except its AOE?
The fact that you wanted Riot to remove Shen's ultimate makes me really glad you aren't in charge of reworks. What the shit would be the point of Shen without his most defining ability? May as well rework Twisted Fate to remove his ultimate too.
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EPT
