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On December 15 2015 04:48 Purge wrote:
I think its a bit more than just squishy supports - at the end of the day, if a champion doesn't have enough mobility to counter frontline aggression from tanks and enough damage and/or utility to be relevant then that champion is useless. Sona and Zyra don't offer enough on a limited gold budget to be relevant at all. Syndra (which I am mad salty about rn because shes not getting the love Rito promised :/) Had all of her items nerfed and now just gets jumped on and merced if she cannot kill anyone. Just goes to show that if you buff tanks by buffing all of their underlying support systems as a class you just phase out all the champions that don't deal well with high hp heroes.
That and if you give diving fighters buffs as well. What a rough preseason dawg.
I think the go to Syndra build at the moment is RoA then Morello. From there you build situationally. Grail just seems really sucky nowadays, and like you said, you just get jumped on. RoA health helps in that regard, but you need/want CDR so badly.
Riot shouldn't have savaged her Q so much. 20 damage at level 1 was massive. Not to mention her stun still only functions 80% of the time.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On December 15 2015 11:12 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2015 10:59 ticklishmusic wrote:On December 15 2015 08:48 Gahlo wrote:On December 15 2015 08:42 GrandInquisitor wrote:How does Strength of the Ages work? Siege minions and large monsters that you or nearby allies kill grant you 20 and 10 permanent Health respectively (300 max). After reaching the max bonus further nearby Siege minion kills restore 100 Health. Do you get 20HP for the siege minion and 10HP for the large monster, or 20HP for killing and 10HP for watching it die? It used to not trigger on large monsters, so I'm going to assume it's talking about the you/nearby split. 20 on large monsters/ siege minions, so basically kill 15 camps and you max out the 300. 10 is for when a monster/siege is killed near you, so as a jungler you theoretically could pick up extra 10's if you walk by a lane when the siege minion dies. Err, shit, well now I'm unsure. No it's 20 for siege minion and 10 for large monsters if you or a teammate near you kills them. And 0 if the tower or your minions kill them. So it's 30 camps to max it
Well that sort of contradicts what the wiki says, but it's also the more intuitive reading of that sentence. Also if that's the case, how come everyone says it stacks too slowly in lane? Does 15 siege minions take longer than 30 camps?
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On December 15 2015 13:16 JazzVortical wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2015 04:48 Purge wrote:
I think its a bit more than just squishy supports - at the end of the day, if a champion doesn't have enough mobility to counter frontline aggression from tanks and enough damage and/or utility to be relevant then that champion is useless. Sona and Zyra don't offer enough on a limited gold budget to be relevant at all. Syndra (which I am mad salty about rn because shes not getting the love Rito promised :/) Had all of her items nerfed and now just gets jumped on and merced if she cannot kill anyone. Just goes to show that if you buff tanks by buffing all of their underlying support systems as a class you just phase out all the champions that don't deal well with high hp heroes.
That and if you give diving fighters buffs as well. What a rough preseason dawg. I think the go to Syndra build at the moment is RoA then Morello. From there you build situationally. Grail just seems really sucky nowadays, and like you said, you just get jumped on. RoA health helps in that regard, but you need/want CDR so badly. Riot shouldn't have savaged her Q so much. 20 damage at level 1 was massive. Not to mention her stun still only functions 80% of the time.
Don't you just build FQC on everyone? 
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I think you go FQC first on Syndra yes, so much easier to setup your stun
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On December 15 2015 23:51 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2015 11:12 Dan HH wrote:On December 15 2015 10:59 ticklishmusic wrote:On December 15 2015 08:48 Gahlo wrote:On December 15 2015 08:42 GrandInquisitor wrote:How does Strength of the Ages work? Siege minions and large monsters that you or nearby allies kill grant you 20 and 10 permanent Health respectively (300 max). After reaching the max bonus further nearby Siege minion kills restore 100 Health. Do you get 20HP for the siege minion and 10HP for the large monster, or 20HP for killing and 10HP for watching it die? It used to not trigger on large monsters, so I'm going to assume it's talking about the you/nearby split. 20 on large monsters/ siege minions, so basically kill 15 camps and you max out the 300. 10 is for when a monster/siege is killed near you, so as a jungler you theoretically could pick up extra 10's if you walk by a lane when the siege minion dies. Err, shit, well now I'm unsure. No it's 20 for siege minion and 10 for large monsters if you or a teammate near you kills them. And 0 if the tower or your minions kill them. So it's 30 camps to max it Well that sort of contradicts what the wiki says, but it's also the more intuitive reading of that sentence. Also if that's the case, how come everyone says it stacks too slowly in lane? Does 15 siege minions take longer than 30 camps?
24 minute mark would be the spawn of your last seige minion, assuming you are perfect.
Its kind of late, but also you are losing laning power, which junglers worry less about. Also, a jungler ends up with more passive stacks when teammates kill siege minions than a top does in a typical game.
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To get SotA full stacked, you'd need 15 siege minions* 1.5 minutes +1.5 minutes, so 24 minutes. That's a similar time to when I finish stacking it in the jungle, and presumably how Riot attempted to balance it. Kind of hard to miss a jungle camp, but there's always the chance you miss a siege minion when back or zoned though. Potentially losing a siege minion is a pretty hefty opportunity cost for backing, roaming, etc. when you have SotA.
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On December 15 2015 23:58 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2015 13:16 JazzVortical wrote:On December 15 2015 04:48 Purge wrote:
I think its a bit more than just squishy supports - at the end of the day, if a champion doesn't have enough mobility to counter frontline aggression from tanks and enough damage and/or utility to be relevant then that champion is useless. Sona and Zyra don't offer enough on a limited gold budget to be relevant at all. Syndra (which I am mad salty about rn because shes not getting the love Rito promised :/) Had all of her items nerfed and now just gets jumped on and merced if she cannot kill anyone. Just goes to show that if you buff tanks by buffing all of their underlying support systems as a class you just phase out all the champions that don't deal well with high hp heroes.
That and if you give diving fighters buffs as well. What a rough preseason dawg. I think the go to Syndra build at the moment is RoA then Morello. From there you build situationally. Grail just seems really sucky nowadays, and like you said, you just get jumped on. RoA health helps in that regard, but you need/want CDR so badly. Riot shouldn't have savaged her Q so much. 20 damage at level 1 was massive. Not to mention her stun still only functions 80% of the time. Don't you just build FQC on everyone?
Yeah I think FQC first item is actually really good right now on a lot of champions.
RoA still seems like a noob trap on everything not named Ryze to me.
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I kinda like FQC into ROA on Karma Mid/Top (with cdr boots and cdr/lvl blues). Sounds really stupid, but plays nice because you never run out of mana, even without blue.
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On December 15 2015 13:16 JazzVortical wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2015 04:48 Purge wrote:
I think its a bit more than just squishy supports - at the end of the day, if a champion doesn't have enough mobility to counter frontline aggression from tanks and enough damage and/or utility to be relevant then that champion is useless. Sona and Zyra don't offer enough on a limited gold budget to be relevant at all. Syndra (which I am mad salty about rn because shes not getting the love Rito promised :/) Had all of her items nerfed and now just gets jumped on and merced if she cannot kill anyone. Just goes to show that if you buff tanks by buffing all of their underlying support systems as a class you just phase out all the champions that don't deal well with high hp heroes.
That and if you give diving fighters buffs as well. What a rough preseason dawg. I think the go to Syndra build at the moment is RoA then Morello. From there you build situationally. Grail just seems really sucky nowadays, and like you said, you just get jumped on. RoA health helps in that regard, but you need/want CDR so badly. Riot shouldn't have savaged her Q so much. 20 damage at level 1 was massive. Not to mention her stun still only functions 80% of the time.
Yeah those nerfs stomped her into irrelevancy. I play her and after im done maxing E i just fall off if I fall behind. Not fun.
I also tried that build after i snooped the 3 top KR ladder players using it but maybe imo i leaves you weaker than u should be when you should be a god because its charging.
When I next get a chance I'll be testing FQC-> Guise-> Needlessly. FQC is broken efficient and just stacking gold efficient items on it seems like only way to give yourself options. Getting Guise stacks your midgame damage, gives you hp and makes Liandries cheaper when people start hitting the 3k hp mark.
Edit: The only reason why I suggested Lia is that apparently according to Rito NLR items were nerfed down to the gold efficiency of Liandries and other such items. So All mages are just to get it if they need counters to health stacking.
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FQC is getting nerfed on the PBE for mid laners. The tribute passive is disabled after killing a minion (like the previous two items in the spellthief line). I can't see it being worth it after that.
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I have not touched the game since 5.20. Is it just me or Graves feels like he's totally gimped now?
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On December 16 2015 07:07 JazzVortical wrote:
FQC is getting nerfed on the PBE for mid laners. The tribute passive is disabled after killing a minion (like the previous two items in the spellthief line). I can't see it being worth it after that.
As it should be and probably just an oversight. Its a gold steroid for free right now that makes Morellos and grail irrelevant w/ the amount of mana it gives. After this I see just like grail again.... although even after the nerfs ill be checking because its pretty efficient w/o the passive.
re Graves dude:
Just give it some more games, his gameplay is alot more strange but frankly its way more interesting. There is a whole thread on reddit rn on this topic w/ ppl discussing the pros and cons (its incredibly biased, but not as bad as usual). there a couple good comments in there that i dont have time to link, but ppl were talking about animation cancels that open up more autos for graves.
I personally find him way more fun to play with and against.
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On December 16 2015 00:55 Prog wrote:
I kinda like FQC into ROA on Karma Mid/Top (with cdr boots and cdr/lvl blues). Sounds really stupid, but plays nice because you never run out of mana, even without blue.
you dont really go oom without roa either. Played her mid vs anivia with blue while I didnt have one still cleared easily without going oom.
Just play graves in the jungle. Check out "jungle graves" on euw he is insane with it.
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On December 16 2015 08:45 Purge wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2015 07:07 JazzVortical wrote:
FQC is getting nerfed on the PBE for mid laners. The tribute passive is disabled after killing a minion (like the previous two items in the spellthief line). I can't see it being worth it after that. As it should be and probably just an oversight. Its a gold steroid for free right now that makes Morellos and grail irrelevant w/ the amount of mana it gives. After this I see just like grail again.... although even after the nerfs ill be checking because its pretty efficient w/o the passive. re Graves dude: Just give it some more games, his gameplay is alot more strange but frankly its way more interesting. There is a whole thread on reddit rn on this topic w/ ppl discussing the pros and cons (its incredibly biased, but not as bad as usual). there a couple good comments in there that i dont have time to link, but ppl were talking about animation cancels that open up more autos for graves. I personally find him way more fun to play with and against.
Eh. Its always going to be a biased thing. If you liked old Graves (I did for a while, was pretty meh about him at the end, and fine the change to be equally meh) you were inevitably going to be disappointed. If you thought he was too much like Lucian you are going to appreciate the change. The same is, more or less, true with the Trist and Kog remakes (the ones I actually disliked quite a bit).
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I can see FQC still being used mid after that nerf.
Might be more matchup specific where the active has really high value than just a brain dead choice because of gold gen, though.
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On December 16 2015 09:02 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2015 00:55 Prog wrote:
I kinda like FQC into ROA on Karma Mid/Top (with cdr boots and cdr/lvl blues). Sounds really stupid, but plays nice because you never run out of mana, even without blue. you dont really go oom without roa either. Played her mid vs anivia with blue while I didnt have one still cleared easily without going oom.
Sure if you are just clearing, but I'm referring more to situations in which you constantly spam your shield as well.
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On December 16 2015 09:02 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2015 00:55 Prog wrote:
I kinda like FQC into ROA on Karma Mid/Top (with cdr boots and cdr/lvl blues). Sounds really stupid, but plays nice because you never run out of mana, even without blue. you dont really go oom without roa either. Played her mid vs anivia with blue while I didnt have one still cleared easily without going oom. Just play graves in the jungle. Check out "jungle graves" on euw he is insane with it.
The mana regen on FQC is pretty obscene, IMO it's still probably worth it just for utility + mana regen even with the PBE nerf.
Ranged champs are stupid good in jungle right now, the ability to kite + the healing talisman thingy lets them clear so easily.
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You lose a great advantage of going FQC though. The gold gen allows you to make up for the low AP value on the item by going like second item DCap (which is insanely expensive) in a more than reasonable amount of time.
The active is great. Maybe if you are completely utility focused (Lulu maybe?) you'll still get it.
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Probably still good on pick mids but we'll see
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On December 16 2015 10:02 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2015 09:02 nafta wrote:On December 16 2015 00:55 Prog wrote:
I kinda like FQC into ROA on Karma Mid/Top (with cdr boots and cdr/lvl blues). Sounds really stupid, but plays nice because you never run out of mana, even without blue. you dont really go oom without roa either. Played her mid vs anivia with blue while I didnt have one still cleared easily without going oom. Just play graves in the jungle. Check out "jungle graves" on euw he is insane with it. The mana regen on FQC is pretty obscene, IMO it's still probably worth it just for utility + mana regen even with the PBE nerf. Ranged champs are stupid good in jungle right now, the ability to kite + the healing talisman thingy lets them clear so easily.
Yup. You just go meditate+this shit and you can't go oom on any support. It is just stupid.
Meditate is such a stupid mastery in general. Same as vampirism. Dunno why do riot add so much sustain in masteries.
I know a mastery the same as meditate existed in s5 but you had to actually trade other useful points for it not get it for free like this.
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EPT
