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On September 09 2015 05:19 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2015 05:10 Caiada wrote:On September 09 2015 03:50 cLutZ wrote:On September 08 2015 23:56 Caiada wrote:
The current system would be great if confirmation bias didn't exist and telling people the system will eventually put them in the right place actually worked. Unfortunately, well, reality.
It's still better than Elo. If people understood the system and allowed for variance, it'd be perfect. But it's underexplained and trying to tell people that Gold V guy in your Silver II game isn't any better than you are and probably isn't the reason you lost doesn't work. Why is it better than ELO if the ELO system can be easily just pasted on top of the Bronze V - Diamond I system (sans promos and demotion) with a +/- variance number like any statistical study has? Personal feelings of progress, keeping people playing, all the people posting 'hey, I finally got Gold V' on forums who'd get to whatever Elo that was equivalent to beforehand and be a lot more scared of playing. More delineated tiers instead of faceless numbers. Ups and downs across playing instead of the flat grind of getting one number higher. yea this system is much better for the people who don't actually understand the system. It is definitely focused around the casual playerbase. Even the promos make basically meaningless games feel like they matter.
I wouldn't say it's just the casual player base, that's overestimating the average knowledge/intelligence of high ladder people. Most of them don't even understand how the system works either.
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This might sound retarded but just being high ranked doesn't make you not a casual. There are a lot of people who basically play the game casually they just happen to be insanely good lol. Pretty much everyone who gives a shit knows.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Had a confusing troll in my game last night on the other team. He sold all his items 25 minutes into the game yet continued playing seriously. What's the point? At the very least stack mobi boots or just straight up AFK. Selling all your items and then continuing to play seriously just seems boring.
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if only you could buy bunkers
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On September 08 2015 12:26 Goumindong wrote:
I wonder if the system was the same as it was now, but instead of LP you just were in the division and promoted when you promoted, people would like it better
I know that would cure 100% of every complaint I ever had about this shitty ranked system.
Whether or not it's true, my perception of promo series is that they are disproportionately filled with trolls, feeders and shitty S5/G1 Duos.
It also REALLY sucks to keep going 4-3 or 5-3 (2-3 wins to enter promo, 2 wins 3 losses to lose promo) for a week and never advance past a promo series even though I'm actually winning more than I'm losing. Which is really the crux to this whole argument. I want to know that simply winning more than I lose is enough to advance, but the reality is that timing of wins is equally, or even more important than simply winning 55% of my games.
I'm not some ELO-Hell whiner complaining that I should be Plat, if only my shit feeding teammates wouldn't suck so much. My 50/50ish win rate tells me S1/G5 is where I belong, which is really just a few MMR points. The reality is I really just want that Gold border just to show off to my friends, but more than 10 times this season haven't been able to secure that third win in a promo series. It's annoying as fuck.
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The league system is very frustrating when you're maintaining a 55-60% winrate but it still takes you 50 games to get promoted because you have bad luck in promo series 3 or 4 times in a row.
Even if your winrate is 60%, advancing requires 66% or 75% during the promo series, so it probably only takes 1 out of your control game to cost you the series and make you repeat it.
And then after that hurdle your LP gains have to be inflated specifically because the promo series screwed it up.
In general I like the league system, but I don't like promo series.
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On September 09 2015 08:39 Ketara wrote:
The league system is very frustrating when you're maintaining a 55-60% winrate but it still takes you 50 games to get promoted because you have bad luck in promo series 3 or 4 times in a row.
Even if your winrate is 60%, advancing requires 66% or 75% during the promo series, so it probably only takes 1 out of your control game to cost you the series and make you repeat it.
And then after that hurdle your LP gains have to be inflated specifically because the promo series screwed it up.
In general I like the league system, but I don't like promo series.
That's not true. If your MMR is higher than your current league tier, you can get to promo winning fewer games than losing due to how LP works.
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And then if you keep losing games during the promo series and winning games outside of them you stay the same division while your mmr goes up and its super frustrating, and then when you finally win a series you skip a division or start getting 30 LP on a win or whatever which feels hollow and makes you disillusioned with the system.
I have played thousands of league games sufficiency. I know how the system makes me feel. Don't be that guy.
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On September 09 2015 09:10 Ketara wrote:
And then if you keep losing games during the promo series and winning games outside of them you stay the same division while your mmr goes up and its super frustrating, and then when you finally win a series you skip a division or start getting 30 LP on a win or whatever which feels hollow and makes you disillusioned with the system.
I have played thousands of league games sufficiency. I know how the system makes me feel. Don't be that guy.
It's just your anecdote. The fact of the matter is that it works. A Gold I player from Season 4 takes significantly fewer games to return to Gold than a Gold V player, for example.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4vKLCyt.png)
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I'm not saying it doesn't work.
I'm saying based off of my personal experience it frustrates me.
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On September 09 2015 09:52 Ketara wrote:
I'm not saying it doesn't work.
I'm saying based off of my personal experience it frustrates me.
So...... you got unlucky. The system works, you were simply unfortunate.
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Just because the system works doesn't mean they can't tweak it to make it a less frustrating experience. The reality is that really, everything is based off your "hidden" MMR, it's what the system actually shows you that becomes annoying.
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I don't think anybody thinks the system doesn't work.
We would just like a system that works, that creates fewer stressful situations. The game is already stressful enough by itself.
That said, they have been slightly modifying it to make it less stressful every season, so it's improving over time.
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Maybe it's your fault that you are being frustrated by the system because you are latching on to rare occurrences with the full force of cognitive biases 
I still think the league system is dumb though -- if they didn't want people to fixate on peak MMR they should'vd displayed a moving average MMR for ranking poitns, or they could change the league system so that there aren't intentional systems in place that hinder convergence. Instead, now we have a system that incentivizes fixation on peak performance where you get frustrated that your baseline doesn't match your now inflated perception of skill.
Although, I was Gold 5 last season and got Gold 5 again this season in 20 wins which puts me in the top 10% of shitters. King of trash!
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I don't know how you could make it better than it is. The reality is that Riot has a bunch of PHD mathematicians and psychologists who work on this shit, and none of us are going to come up with something better.
That said, one thing I'd like to see is if your profile listed your highest and lowest LP in the past 50 games or so. That would give you a lot more information than what you get currently. It'd be much easier to see if somebody is a smurf or a guy being boosted, or somebody who is having a winstreak/losing streak, etc.
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They have a bunch of Really Smart People With Fancy Labels working on creating a system to incentivize you to play more through obfuscation. I thought you problem was with that part, in which case the current system sucks?
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So I checked out a replay of that Zilean jungle guy. He went golems, red, waited a few seconds, then did wolves before backing. It worked out pretty well. You get level three then just start ganking like crazy. I think you pretty much have to start on red buff to get the passive hp regen.
I tried it out and a wrecked during laning phase, hard. I went something like 4-0-4 in the first 15-20 minutes. Then I kinda licked balls because I suck at landing bombs and I was bad at applying the ult properly.
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On September 09 2015 11:40 Zess wrote:Maybe it's your fault that you are being frustrated by the system because you are latching on to rare occurrences with the full force of cognitive biases I still think the league system is dumb though -- if they didn't want people to fixate on peak MMR they should'vd displayed a moving average MMR for ranking poitns, or they could change the league system so that there aren't intentional systems in place that hinder convergence. Instead, now we have a system that incentivizes fixation on peak performance where you get frustrated that your baseline doesn't match your now inflated perception of skill. Although, I was Gold 5 last season and got Gold 5 again this season in 20 wins which puts me in the top 10% of shitters. King of trash!
MMR is already a moving average
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EPT
