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CDR is especially important early on, when you don't have a bunch of points in Q (cd is 18s -> 8s, but 13/10s when you use your first ults) and when your ult has a whooping 150s cooldown.
Later on, your ult has a more manageable cooldown, and when you have full-blown fights you can't really sit in melee range of everyone and try fully charging Q, so it's more of a walk out -> go back in with Q -> repeat pattern ideally (or people are running away and then you chase with QautoE combos).
Having CDR on 6-item Vi is nice but not as important. Taking the 1.5s to fully charge Q (let's round to 2s 'cause you're gonna aim and reaction times and stuff) also reduces the impact from CDR a bit (like how CDR isn't too hot for Garen's E).
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On August 18 2015 21:15 Ketara wrote:
Liandry's damage is way more complicated than that actually.
It ticks once each half second for 1% current HP (with the first tick being instant) and calculates a new damage number with each tick.
So it's actually 5.8519850599% current HP damage total, not 6%. On Lux this is how much it would do for her R and her passive autos.
The extra damage from Lux E slow only counts for the first tick, so for that it would do 6.8029751098%, while for Q it would do 9.5986966384% since the damage would be doubled for 4 of the 6 ticks.
You see why I want a spreadsheet.
0.2% current hp damage would be on the scale of 4 hp. Don't split hairs over that.
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OH MY GOD.
Gahlo has delivered unto me a wonderful spreadsheet, that will allow me to compare Liandry's vs. some other item against a target with specific MR, and then state how much HP the target has to have for Liandry's to outdamage the other item.
THANK YOU GAHLO, YOU ARE AN CHAMPION.
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It's splitting hairs mostly because it dances around the #1 problem facing any attempt to math out the value Liandry's. Current Health effects are a pain in the butt to theorycraft.
If you really want to exercise the patience required it's best to just take a Lux VoD with Liandry's and straight up measure the tick damage done, then calculate/estimate how much damage the extra AP/whatever from a different item would have yielded. It won't be perfect (items like Lich Bane or Hourglass modify plays), but it'll be easier to judge and more approachable than 10 digit decimals.
On August 19 2015 00:08 Ketara wrote:
OH MY GOD.
Gahlo has delivered unto me a wonderful spreadsheet, that will allow me to compare Liandry's vs. some other item against a target with specific MR, and then state how much HP the target has to have for Liandry's to outdamage the other item.
THANK YOU GAHLO, YOU ARE AN CHAMPION.
I'm curious what scenario the spreadsheet is assuming.
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Uhm, all it did was let you calculate the ticks easily lol. Also, don't look behind the curtain, the math was very shoddy given my rush out the door.
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Yeah, easily, as opposed to so difficult that I was just not going to bother doing it at all.
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On August 19 2015 00:10 Seuss wrote:It's splitting hairs mostly because it dances around the #1 problem facing any attempt to math out the value Liandry's. Current Health effects are a pain in the butt to theorycraft. If you really want to exercise the patience required it's best to just take a Lux VoD with Liandry's and straight up measure the tick damage done, then calculate/estimate how much damage the extra AP/whatever from a different item would have yielded. It won't be perfect (items like Lich Bane or Hourglass modify plays), but it'll be easier to judge and more approachable than 10 digit decimals. Show nested quote +On August 19 2015 00:08 Ketara wrote:
OH MY GOD.
Gahlo has delivered unto me a wonderful spreadsheet, that will allow me to compare Liandry's vs. some other item against a target with specific MR, and then state how much HP the target has to have for Liandry's to outdamage the other item.
THANK YOU GAHLO, YOU ARE AN CHAMPION. I'm curious what scenario the spreadsheet is assuming.
I'm not assuming any scenario.
It's like this.
If I have a void staff against a 30 MR target, my spell will do X damage. Lets say X is 100.
If I have a Liandry against a 30 MR target, my spell will do Y damage + Z burn damage. Lets say Y is 90 and Z is 20.
This will tell you which is doing more damage. But then you have to make a judgement call because the Liandry's burn damage is not really as valuable per point as normal damage is, because it can't kill people, and can be reduced by a host of factors such as other people hitting them or their allies / regen saving the day because it's delayed, blah blah blah.
So in this particular case, one might decide that 100 is still better than 90+20.
But 100 is probably not better than 90+50.
When doing this kind of comparison, the X and the Y are pretty easy to just math out on a windows calculator. The Z is not, it's convoluted and complicated and takes way too much time if you want to do it for a lot of different enemy stat values.
Gahlos wonderful, WONDERFUL spreadsheet will calculate the Z for me, and then I can actually do the comparison 
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I personally would love to see Captains Mode, and would like to see it for both pro games and for normal ranked 5v5 queues, but not for solo/duo queue.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
On August 19 2015 00:18 Ansibled wrote:Give Captain's Mode.
I'd love Ability draft more >D
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Yango you should write up an official TL opinion on Captains Mode and put it on Reddit for Ghostcrawler.
I would sign such a letter.
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United States15536 Posts
On August 19 2015 00:23 Ketara wrote:
Yango you should write up an official TL opinion on Captains Mode and put it on Reddit for Ghostcrawler.
I would sign such a letter.
Here here.
Yango to the rescue.
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On August 19 2015 00:23 Ketara wrote:
Yango you should write up an official TL opinion on Captains Mode and put it on Reddit for Ghostcrawler.
I would sign such a letter.
Unfortunately people are too ignorant about the subject. They still think that having interwoven bans limits diversity instead of increases it. They look at things from a surface pov then make up their mind on how it works. Doubt anything would change that.
One thing I do love is how he mentions that they don't have to use the same system for both pro and non-pro play. This is a change from their previous stance in that solo q must be the same as pro play. I still have my doubts about League ever getting a draft system worthy of the competitive play.
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We could put statistics in it like percentage of heroes used in TI vs. percentage of champions used in League, etc.
Is there a way to get statistics on how often pros get banned out of their signature champion in League vs. DotA?
Are signature champions even a thing in League anymore? It's been a long time since I've remembered somebody having some specific thing that nobody else plays banned out like Froggen Anivia or whatever.
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On August 19 2015 00:27 Ketara wrote:
We could put statistics in it like percentage of heroes used in TI vs. percentage of champions used in League, etc.
Is there a way to get statistics on how often pros get banned out of their signature champion in League vs. DotA?
Are signature champions even a thing in League anymore? It's been a long time since I've remembered somebody having some specific thing that nobody else plays banned out like Froggen Anivia or whatever.
I guess draven is one of the champs that often gets banned just because of said mains but pretty rare otherwise.Generally "signature" champs are just really good performance on current meta champs.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
I remember reddit whining and complaining about lack of bans in competetive games and now, where a thread appears on front page, saying Riot is considering an option to add more bans, people are most against it.
Screw reddit logic, srsly.
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http://www.datdota.com/ has all your stats you want. Some people have signature heroes like Fy Rubick or Burning AM but it's not like it was back in League where they would be gods on that hero but kind of alright on others. Fy is a god on anything :D. Dota is also different in that the community has had good drafting for so long that the concept of Fy not getting Rubick is merely good drafting by the enemy team and not some kind of shitty situation for the viewers. Also the signature picks aren't blank strong picks like Anivia was.
As for league, there hasn't been signature heroes in awhile. If you can't play what is strong now you are just not good enough. Certain players have niche picks they bust out like Pawn mid Fizz but it's not really the same as Froggen Anivia.
So yea can't really compare the two in that regard but it doesn't seem like an issue anymore anyway.
On August 19 2015 00:31 739 wrote:
I remember reddit whining and complaining about lack of bans in competetive games and now, where a thread appears on front page, saying Riot is considering an option to add more bans, people are most against it.
Screw reddit logic, srsly.
Welcome to League of Legends. Same thing with patching. Bitch about fast patch cycle then bitch about slow patch cycle.
The best outcome is Riot ignores them and improves the draft system anyway next season. I again have my doubts. Pro players are pretty dumb when it comes to drafting. Maybe because they never had to think about it like Dota has had to. Would we see the PPD/Puppey/Xiao8 come out of the woodwork with a change? Prob not as coaches are there during draft lol.
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Some guys are much better on particular champions, but usually the champions themselves are ban-worthy anyway (Hyllisang's Morgana Thresh, Aphromoo's Alistar, Fenix's Azir) so the "signature" isn't that strong.
There was that one guy's Diana at MSI, XWX's Yasuo is you will, Keane's pocket picks got banned for awhile till teams learnt how to deal with them (or not to pick something vulnerable to it), etc.
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On August 19 2015 00:31 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2015 00:27 Ketara wrote:
We could put statistics in it like percentage of heroes used in TI vs. percentage of champions used in League, etc.
Is there a way to get statistics on how often pros get banned out of their signature champion in League vs. DotA?
Are signature champions even a thing in League anymore? It's been a long time since I've remembered somebody having some specific thing that nobody else plays banned out like Froggen Anivia or whatever. I guess draven is one of the champs that often gets banned just because of said mains but pretty rare otherwise.Generally "signature" champs are just really good performance on current meta champs.
I guess you'd need to look at what is banned against what teams, and see if there is a champion that is consistently banned against a certain team, and is not banned against other teams.
I'm pretty sure that would be a lot of work and end up with the result of "This hasn't actually happened since seasons 2/3" though.
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EPT
