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United States47024 Posts
On July 23 2015 07:24 Sufficiency wrote:
No. He is in NYC speculating on what happens in China.
You're doing the exact same thing.
Your claim that the Chinese League community actually cares about elo boosting is just as speculative as his claim that it doesn't, except his is backed by more demonstrable evidence (such as the fact he pointed out that Elo boosting is actually rampant among many high-profile players, with no significant ill will toward them from the community for it, or any action from Tencent).
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On July 23 2015 07:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 07:24 Sufficiency wrote:
No. He is in NYC speculating on what happens in China.
You're doing the exact same thing.
Except I have explained my rationales in multiple directions on why XWX won't be competing in LPL. He just pretends to be an expert of everything and go herp derp China power.
I think he has a case of internalized racism where he just automatically assumes a Chinese company will do scummy and stupid things. The fact of the matter is, Tencent is not stupid and there is no way Tencent will allow XWX to compete in LPL should he be suspended by Riot - they have nothing to gain and everything to lose should they make such decision.
Can XWX play in unofficial tournaments like Demacia's Cup? It's hard to say. But LPL implies that XWX can compete in World's, which won't happen.
On July 23 2015 07:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 07:24 Sufficiency wrote:
No. He is in NYC speculating on what happens in China.
You're doing the exact same thing. Your claim that the Chinese League community actually cares about elo boosting is just as speculative as his claim that it doesn't, except his is backed by more demonstrable evidence (such as the fact he pointed out that Elo boosting is actually rampant among many high-profile players, with no significant ill will toward them from the community for it, or any action from Tencent).
My claim is based on that my belief that eloboosting is unfair and every single human, regardless of race, ethnicity, and upbringing, fundamentally feel strongly about things that are unfair - especially when they get victimized by it.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 23 2015 07:33 Sufficiency wrote:
Except I have explained my rationales in multiple directions on why XWX won't be competing in LPL.
This is your post presenting your actual argument in a way that's not just vaguely saying "Tencent isn't stupid" without actually saying why
On July 23 2015 06:43 Sufficiency wrote:
First, let's assume XWX is going to get suspended for a year. During this time, if XWX is able to play for LPL, it would send a strong message that Riot's ruling has no effect on LPL. This is very different from your supposed theory of LPL turning a blind eye on eloboosting issues so it's not even remotely comparable.
Secondly, this will be a huge shitstorm and a PR nightmare, both for Tencent and for Riot. You have to delusional to think Tencent want to have this kind of shitstorm just for a single player - XWX. Tencent gains NOTHING from letting XWX play in LPL and everything to lose from it. Tencent has to be absolutely retarded to think this is a good move.
The problem here is that you take it as a given that enough people will actually care about this "bad PR" for it to be a problem for anyone. There's two potential dimensions to this:
1) Chinese audiences/players will be angry at Tencent for implicitly condoning Elo boosting
2) Western audiences will be angry at Tencent/Riot for LPL not upholding Western rules
Point 1 runs counter to currently accepted ideas about how Elo boosters are viewed in China. The fact that there are many high profile players who are known Elo boosting, and who have even streamed themselves doing so with absolutely no repercussions or backlash from the community suggests that China as a whole largely does not care about Elo boosting. You have not presented any evidence contrary to this, while multiple people who watch Chinese League have confirmed this to be the case.
Point 2 runs counter to what generally happens when the West gets news about things that happen in China, which is that nobody cares after like a week. The number of people in the Western league community who have nonzero interest in what goes on in China is absurdly small, and this is generally reflected by how little Western viewership/discussion Chinese events get relative to Western or Korean counterparts. Add onto this the general short attention span of online drama, and you have the likelihood of any long-term Western backlash being very low. Again, you have not demonstrated any solid reasoning as to why this would not be the case.
Your entire argument is based around the idea that it is in the interest of Tencent to uphold this for PR reasons without having sufficiently argued why significant bad PR would arise from this.
On July 23 2015 07:33 Sufficiency wrote:
My claim is based on that my belief that eloboosting is unfair and every single human, regardless of race, ethnicity, and upbringing, fundamentally feel strongly about things that are unfair - especially when they get victimized by it.
Again, the general ubiquity and acceptance of elo boosting in China runs counter to the idea to the idea that people care about it.
You have repeatedly failed to address this. Literally your only argument is saying that Cheep/Redox/Wonderful/myself are either lying to you or horribly misinformed when we say that the Chinese community does not care about Elo boosting when you have no evidence yourself to support that other than groundless faith.
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On July 23 2015 07:43 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 07:33 Sufficiency wrote:
Except I have explained my rationales in multiple directions on why XWX won't be competing in LPL. This is your post presenting your actual argument in a way that's not just vaguely saying "Tencent isn't stupid" without actually saying why Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 06:43 Sufficiency wrote:
First, let's assume XWX is going to get suspended for a year. During this time, if XWX is able to play for LPL, it would send a strong message that Riot's ruling has no effect on LPL. This is very different from your supposed theory of LPL turning a blind eye on eloboosting issues so it's not even remotely comparable.
Secondly, this will be a huge shitstorm and a PR nightmare, both for Tencent and for Riot. You have to delusional to think Tencent want to have this kind of shitstorm just for a single player - XWX. Tencent gains NOTHING from letting XWX play in LPL and everything to lose from it. Tencent has to be absolutely retarded to think this is a good move.
The problem here is that you take it as a given that enough people will actually care about this "bad PR" for it to be a problem for anyone. There's two potential dimensions to this: 1) Chinese audiences/players will be angry at Tencent for implicitly condoning Elo boosting 2) Western audiences will be angry at Tencent/Riot for LPL not upholding Western rules Point 1 runs counter to currently accepted ideas about how Elo boosters are viewed in China. The fact that there are many high profile players who are known Elo boosting, and who have even streamed themselves doing so with absolutely no repercussions or backlash from the community suggests that China as a whole largely does not care about Elo boosting. You have not presented any evidence contrary to this, while multiple people who watch Chinese League have confirmed this to be the case. Point 2 runs counter to what generally happens when the West gets news about things that happen in China, which is that nobody cares after like a week. The number of people in the Western league community who have nonzero interest in what goes on in China is absurdly small, and this is generally reflected by how little Western viewership/discussion Chinese events get relative to Western or Korean counterparts. Add onto this the general short attention span of online drama, and you have the likelihood of any long-term Western backlash being very low. Again, you have not demonstrated any solid reasoning as to why this would not be the case. Your entire argument is based around the idea that it is in the interest of Tencent to uphold this for PR reasons without having sufficiently argued why significant bad PR would arise from this.
You can argue that the PR damage is small, but can you argue that the PR damage is 0?
Instead of doing your PR calculus, just suspend XWX instead. Done.
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On July 23 2015 07:43 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 07:33 Sufficiency wrote:
My claim is based on that my belief that eloboosting is unfair and every single human, regardless of race, ethnicity, and upbringing, fundamentally feel strongly about things that are unfair - especially when they get victimized by it. Again, the general ubiquity and acceptance of elo boosting in China runs counter to the idea to the idea that people care about it. You have repeatedly failed to address this. Literally your only argument is saying that Cheep/Redox/Wonderful/myself are either lying to you or horribly misinformed when we say that the Chinese community does not care about Elo boosting when you have no evidence yourself to support that other than groundless faith.
Can you show me a case where an LPL player openly advertises for eloboosting and get away with it? Just out of curiosity, not saying that you are wrong.
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United States47024 Posts
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I think the lovelin one is definitely problematic. Pomelo sounds like he is just joking.
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I guess what it boils down to is, how big of a deal is it? If the community cares enough about the issue, then it becomes problematic. Read, if XiaoWeiXiao dodging Riot's ban by playing in China makes the front page of Reddit and the community makes a big fuss out of it, Riot will probably apply pressure there to save face and XiaoWeiXiao will become more trouble than he's worth.
If XiaoWeiXiao managed to slip between the cracks and play in China without the community noticing / making a big deal about it, no one would care enough to enforce this (theoretical) ban.
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On July 23 2015 09:01 Zato-1 wrote:
I guess what it boils down to is, how big of a deal is it? If the community cares enough about the issue, then it becomes problematic. Read, if XiaoWeiXiao dodging Riot's ban by playing in China makes the front page of Reddit and the community makes a big fuss out of it, Riot will probably apply pressure there to save face and XiaoWeiXiao will become more trouble than he's worth.
If XiaoWeiXiao managed to slip between the cracks and play in China without the community noticing / making a big deal about it, no one would care enough to enforce this (theoretical) ban.
XWX can't realistically "slip in" LPL. Not only does he have a chance to play at World's as part of LPL, LPL is English casted and he will be seen (on camera, too).
Whether or not he can play in LSPL or Demacia Cup is a different story.
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Hm. Why would he do that? I really have difficulty comprehending. People really take such huge risks for such a minimal reward? He could just stream for that amount of time and make more money.
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his team has an exclusive with Azubu iirc, so he probably wouldn't get many viewers
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On July 23 2015 09:19 Shikyo wrote:
Hm. Why would he do that? I really have difficulty comprehending. People really take such huge risks for such a minimal reward? He could just stream for that amount of time and make more money.
Yeah it's really stupid. The risks definitely do not match the reward. Maybe he thought if he made the dealing in Chinese no one would notice. He thought wrong, of course.
I think Alex Gu and Rush may get suspended too, since they probably know about it:
1. It seems that Alex Gu's Paypal account is used for the boosting, so he is basically an accomplice.
2. Rush duo'ed with XWX while XWX is boosting. In a way, Rush probably knows about the boosting and by duoing with XWX Rush facilitated the process. While Rush wasn't boosting per se, I can see this resembling the C9T ringer issue that got the entire team suspended (even though it was probably Kannigit's idea and no one else took part in the decision process).
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Even if XWX moves back to China he'll go from top 4 NA LCS to LSPL bottom feeder.
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On July 23 2015 10:05 Zess wrote:
Even if XWX moves back to China he'll go from top 4 NA LCS to LSPL bottom feeder.
Call me a biased hater, but I don't think XWX is that good and I am not sure if LSPL wants him.
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Even as an Impulse fan, yeah, no. XWX is not that great at all. He was great S4 when you could just farm and outplay, but his decision-making and play right now are just mediocre. He's wildly inconsistent. He just happens to have Apollo, Impact and Rush to take all the pressure off. It's NA or nowhere for him.
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I don't have any valid insight or anything really useful to say, it;s just that for some reason I found the conversation between XWX and that other guy hilarious
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On July 23 2015 10:17 Caiada wrote:
Even as an Impulse fan, yeah, no. XWX is not that great at all. He was great S4 when you could just farm and outplay, but his decision-making and play right now are just mediocre. He's wildly inconsistent. He just happens to have Apollo, Impact and Rush to take all the pressure off. It's NA or nowhere for him.
He also has communication problems. Maybe Apollo can't speak Korean, but at least he can speak English well. XWX is in a double bind that he can't speak Korean or English well.
I think Impulse will just get another two Koreans for next season after Impact and Rush becomes native players.
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On July 23 2015 07:33 Sufficiency wrote:
I think he has a case of internalized racism where he just automatically assumes a Chinese company will do scummy and stupid things. The fact of the matter is, Tencent is not stupid and there is no way Tencent will allow XWX to compete in LPL should he be suspended by Riot - they have nothing to gain and everything to lose should they make such decision.
Riot can only ban from LCS (and internation events than organize).
When CLG members were banned from competing in OGN for 2 years, Riot didn't stopped them from competing in the LCS. I see no reason at all Tencent would act otherwise.
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If a team in China (LSPL or LPL) that is reputable actually wants XWX he would have been long gone just like his teammates (Godlike, Vasilii, TcT)
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EPT
