EPTI'm gonna miss XWX. Still hoping they're lenient.
XiaoWeiXiao is Suspended - Page 7
| Forum Index > LoL General |
|
Caiada
United States3052 Posts
I'm gonna miss XWX. Still hoping they're lenient. | ||
|
niukasu1990
1007 Posts
Now Alex Gu just get rid of all responsibilities and abandon XWX. | ||
|
Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
On July 25 2015 23:55 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Riot already did that with the league system so I think we're a bit past that concern, yea? what's wrong with the league system? I don't play ranked at all so I don't know much about how it works | ||
|
AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
Fucking league man. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
| ||
|
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 26 2015 02:31 TheYango wrote: The league system is still more or less tied to an Elo-based system--since if your league placement strays too far from your Elo, you get auto-promoted/demoted to get back in line, so the actual underpinnings aren't any different. The system solely exists to obscure/hide information from the player because the "hidden" Elo is still used for the purpose of actual matchmaking, and is still essentially tied to your visible ranking. It's just a massive loss of information/resolution relative to just having a visible Elo, without any functional benefit in return. That's not true and you know it. | ||
|
Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
What is the functional benefit? | ||
|
Kaneh
Canada737 Posts
On July 25 2015 23:55 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Riot already did that with the league system so I think we're a bit past that concern, yea? snarky jabs at riot aside, you can still see how boosting is ~morally~ worse. also, from a purely technical standpoint, no benefit to leagues in ranking. from a psychological standpoint, there's a ton of benefits | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The only thing I could possibly think of is pacifying whiners who don't know how to read their own visible Elo correctly due to not understanding how much variation it's subject to naturally. A system like the current one obscures away that variance, sure. I don't really see that as a benefit because ultimately people who whine about ranked will find *something* to whine about. Taking away that one thing isn't going to change anything for the better. | ||
|
Caiada
United States3052 Posts
That's like 1 in 10 people on this forum at best so of course they can't see any benefit. | ||
|
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
First of all, showing the player his Elo isn't really that useful, since the difference of (say) 10-20 Elo doesn't mean much. It's much more useful to place players in (say) 100 Elo blocks - e.g. "Gold V", which actually has more meaning to the player. Also, there are differences between Gold V and Gold IV, for example. It's not a meaningless label. Secondly, a highly granulated Elo induces more ladder anxiety. If I just hit 1500 Elo, then I will stop playing since any loss will cause me to lose my perceived tier. If I cannot be easily demoted from Gold, then I will keep playing. Thirdly, the league system, due to its stability, is actually a more meaningful benchmark and bragging rights. It's very hard for an ordinary player to gauge the Elo system and provide himself an assessment of his skill level due to how much Elo can fluctuate. The league system is far more straight forward with this. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
| ||
|
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 26 2015 02:49 Caiada wrote: The league system is mostly to placate people in lower leagues who a) didn't care about Elo, and b) wanted something more tangible for getting better than looking at a mostly-contextless number. Hypercompetitive people just want to see where they're at, but the casual guy needs concrete progress and a reason to keep playing. It's also a big deal for guys who don't binge play the game and want a little more context for individual games. That's like 1 in 10 people on this forum at best so of course they can't see any benefit. That's like you ask a math major if calculus is hard - and he will tell you calculus is so easy he can do it in his sleep - even though for a vast majority of population it is still a challenging topic to tackle. Also, keep in mind if you are Master+, you are essentially operating on Elo. | ||
|
Caiada
United States3052 Posts
On July 26 2015 02:52 TheYango wrote: I fail to see how seeing a number go up is any more context-less than seeing an arbitrary precious metal + division number. Without looking up statistics on the spread of people across divisions/Elos, both are equally meaningless and arbitrary. Promotions, defined tiers, difficulty of demotion. It's a matter of perception. On July 26 2015 02:53 Sufficiency wrote: That's like you ask a math major if calculus is hard - and he will tell you calculus is so easy he can do it in his sleep - even though for a vast majority of population it is still a challenging topic to tackle. Also, keep in mind if you are Master+, you are essentially operating on Elo. Exactly. I think they've done a pretty good job of it, after a few seasons of cleanup. But tons of people just want hard, unassailable and clear numbers with tons of (imo completely worthless) exact info, so the argument goes nowhere. | ||
|
nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On July 26 2015 02:52 TheYango wrote: I fail to see how seeing a number go up is any more context-less than seeing an arbitrary precious metal + division number. Without looking up statistics on the spread of people across divisions/Elos, both are equally meaningless and arbitrary. because you aren't part of the people who don't use their brain | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 26 2015 02:50 Sufficiency wrote: Secondly, a highly granulated Elo induces more ladder anxiety. If I just hit 1500 Elo, then I will stop playing since any loss will cause me to lose my perceived tier. If I cannot be easily demoted from Gold, then I will keep playing. This argument was more valid at points in the past where demotion was harder/impossible. However, this ended up being subject to abuses like getting boosted to Platinum, and then being unable to be demoted so a bunch of people just hung out at Platinum V 0 LP. With the system as it is now after all the patching, I don't really think it's as different as you make it out to be. The only real "protection" from demotion at this point is the grace period post-promotion, but that in and of itself is not tied to the League system and could just as easily be implemented with numerical Elo. On July 26 2015 02:55 Caiada wrote: Promotions, defined tiers, difficulty of demotion. It's a matter of perception. None of these are inherently incompatible with fully visible Elo. They're not intrinsic features of the information-hiding aspect of the league system, but simply additions to it. They can all be implemented on top of visible Elo without intentionally obscuring away information. | ||
|
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 26 2015 02:55 nafta wrote: because you aren't part of the people who don't use their brain You might be giving people too much credit. The league system makes a lot of sense. Instead of giving the player the easy way in and out of an Elo bracket with the Elo system (which is way more important for Gold, which gets an end-of-season award), the league system will try to hold the player back until the system is reasonably confident that he can actually play in that bracket (via promotions, etc.). Once promoted, the player can stay in that bracket due to the confidence the system placed on the player. | ||
|
nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On July 26 2015 03:00 Sufficiency wrote: You might be giving people too much credit. The league system makes a lot of sense. Instead of giving the player the easy way in and out of an Elo bracket with the Elo system (which is way more important for Gold, which gets an end-of-season award), the league system will try to hold the player back until the system is reasonably confident that he can actually play in that bracket (via promotions, etc.). Once promoted, the player can stay in that bracket due to the confidence the system placed on the player. Well yeah exactly the system is aimed at people who give a shit about getting a pretty border not for the people who don't care about that stuff  .Say for me I value knowing where I actually stand a lot more than being in division one while playing only vs people in division 3. | ||
|
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 26 2015 02:56 TheYango wrote: This argument was more valid at points in the past where demotion was harder/impossible. However, this ended up being subject to abuses like getting boosted to Platinum, and then being unable to be demoted so a bunch of people just hung out at Platinum V 0 LP. With the system as it is now after all the patching, I don't really think it's as different as you make it out to be. The only real "protection" from demotion at this point is the grace period post-promotion, but that in and of itself is not tied to the League system and could just as easily be implemented with numerical Elo. None of these are inherently incompatible with fully visible Elo. They can all be implemented on top of visible Elo without the intentionally obscuring away information. Before the league system, players would just stop playing after getting 1500 Elo. It was more or less the same, except it is much harder to hit Gold V than 1500 Elo since the league system needs to be reasonably confident before it can place a player in Gold V. Previously, you just need to have one single lucky streak to do it. While it is true that you can still go down from (say) Gold IV to Gold V, it is still far harder than simply losing 100 Elo due to the promotion series that are built in place for the player to build confidence with the system. | ||
|
Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On July 26 2015 03:08 Sufficiency wrote: Before the league system, players would just stop playing after getting 1500 Elo. It was more or less the same, except it is much harder to hit Gold V than 1500 Elo since the league system needs to be reasonably confident before it can place a player in Gold V. Previously, you just need to have one single lucky streak to do it. While it is true that you can still go down from (say) Gold IV to Gold V, it is still far harder than simply losing 100 Elo due to the promotion series that are built in place for the player to build confidence with the system. Gold V is much easier, Plat is the new Gold. | ||
| ||
