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On July 15 2015 22:32 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 22:22 Seuss wrote:
As a software engineer I haven't the faintest idea how that kind of bug could happen. It's practically awe-inspiring. Every time something like this comes up I have that feeling. "How could those two things POSSIBLY be related?" It makes me want to look at Riot's code base. Or maybe not because it'll probably have a similar effect as the Ark of the Covenant.
For those too young for the reference.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 15 2015 22:22 Seuss wrote:
As a software engineer I haven't the faintest idea how that kind of bug could happen. It's practically awe-inspiring.
You are clearly inexperienced.
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I thought stuff like that was chalked up to being coded as minions. hehehe
I am wondering if any shield would produce that result. If so, more than likely there is probably some kind of accidental variable inside of the W mana cost script.
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On July 16 2015 00:12 lilwisper wrote:
I thought stuff like that was chalked up to being coded as minions. hehehe
I am wondering if any shield would produce that result. If so, more than likely there is probably some kind of accidental variable inside of the W mana cost script.
The script might be OK. It could be due to the underlying platform.
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On July 15 2015 22:22 Seuss wrote:
As a software engineer I haven't the faintest idea how that kind of bug could happen. It's practically awe-inspiring.
I spend my lunch discussing this bug 2 colleagues, the only two solutions we could arrive at were Zilean is either coded as a minion or that Riot accidently developed an immature AI which is now trolling everyone.
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In the vein of new stupid shit: How dumb is Sated Devourer on Vayne exactly? I played against one a bit ago, she got fed, she utterly fucking wrecked us. Maybe because she had a good start off of our jungler doing some creative jungling but the damage seemed bonkers.
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It's fantastic once you actually get 30 stacks. The problem is getting there as a Vayne with a shitty ignite and an expensive paperweight for 20 minutes. If she's winning while stacking a Devourer, you were fucked anyway.
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On July 16 2015 01:59 Kaethis wrote:
In the vein of new stupid shit: How dumb is Sated Devourer on Vayne exactly? I played against one a bit ago, she got fed, she utterly fucking wrecked us. Maybe because she had a good start off of our jungler doing some creative jungling but the damage seemed bonkers.
Wouldn't a fed Vayne fuck you up without Sated Devourer anyway?
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Every devourer vayne i've played with/against in ranked has gotten destroyed in lane and surrendered in 20. I'm not sure how people expect to get through laning AND get stacks without letting the other team free farm/get free towers.
Also has anyone been playing devourer skarner? I feel like he could be really strong as he farms pretty quickly and gets perma-Q once he has sated.
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On July 16 2015 02:28 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 01:59 Kaethis wrote:
In the vein of new stupid shit: How dumb is Sated Devourer on Vayne exactly? I played against one a bit ago, she got fed, she utterly fucking wrecked us. Maybe because she had a good start off of our jungler doing some creative jungling but the damage seemed bonkers. Wouldn't a fed Vayne fuck you up without Sated Devourer anyway?
Yes and no. Sated Devourer is easily the single highest DPS item for vayne in the game. Proccing silver bolts on 2 attacks instead of 3 is massive. 50% attack speed is the second largest single item attack speed boost in the game vayne can reasonably make use of and vayne has the hardest AS scaling in the game. 60 on hit-damage is massive in its own right before the bonus passive. There isn't a ~2000 gold item that comes close to comparing with the exception of maybe Sword of the Occult. So a fed vayne with sated will definitely fuck you a lot harder than a fed vayne without sated.
On July 15 2015 11:30 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 11:11 Slusher wrote:
pretty sure that list includes Lee, provided you can play him, which isn't true for all that pick him.
shaco, same caveat I honestly completely forgot Shaco existed. I also think that Lee might be better off with Cinderhulk.
Competitively probably, but i feel like soloqueue he is better with warrior. Soloqueue puts a lot more emphasis on snowballing and warrior snowballs harder and faster.
Cinderhulk for competitive however, is pretty necessary, since Lee needs to be tanky to be effective in a lategame team fight and Cinderhulk lets him do that
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On July 16 2015 02:44 Crazazyasian1337 wrote:
Every devourer vayne i've played with/against in ranked has gotten destroyed in lane and surrendered in 20. I'm not sure how people expect to get through laning AND get stacks without letting the other team free farm/get free towers.
Also has anyone been playing devourer skarner? I feel like he could be really strong as he farms pretty quickly and gets perma-Q once he has sated.
Scip has it seems quite strong.
On July 15 2015 08:01 sob3k wrote:
List of weirder onhit champions who you could go devourer on for fun:
Chagath: 80+.3AP maxed
Malph: 75+.1AP .1AR
Teemo: 50+.3AP
Udyr: 67+.15AP (if it was every hit, only procs every 3 hits for triple this)
Aatrox: 67+.33AD (if it was every hit, only procs every 3 hits for triple this)
Irelia: 75 true
Rumble: 120+.25 at 18
Volibear: 155+.3AP
On this note, what happens to draven with devourer? His spinning axe is an onhit effect, doubling axeplosion? Probably not.
How the hell is udyr a weird champ wtf. He used to go devourer quite a bit anyway.
I played devourer malphite prepatch and thought it was strong, it's stupidly good post patch.
chogath is doesnt work because he has no mobility to run around autoing people.
rumble obviously won't work
volibear its only with his ult
fuck teemo leave him in the trashcan where he belongs, why play a lane bully in the jungle might as well play vayne and 6 shot tanks
aatrox is just a worse version of irelia so we can disregard that
irelia jungle might be interesting, wonder how she does without trinity though, or just going devourer trinity might be too squishy.
On July 15 2015 11:32 Sufficiency wrote:
OK I don't think Devourer Udyr is any good, or at least not with Pheonix. I rather go Cinderhulk with Pheonix.
It was good before they changed devourer. Secondly tiger doesn't have any special synergy with the new devourer, its just more attack speed. Lastly it doesn't make any sense why you'd prefer to go cinderhulk on pheonix specifically. There's nothing wrong with cinderhulk on udyr but why are you acting like tiger and pheonix stances are very different when they're quite similar it's just tiger stance doesn't allow you to clear jungle but has the advantage of better burst damage.
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On July 15 2015 22:36 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 22:32 AsmodeusXI wrote:On July 15 2015 22:22 Seuss wrote:
As a software engineer I haven't the faintest idea how that kind of bug could happen. It's practically awe-inspiring. Every time something like this comes up I have that feeling. "How could those two things POSSIBLY be related?" It makes me want to look at Riot's code base. Or maybe not because it'll probably have a similar effect as the Ark of the Covenant. For those too young for the reference. + Show Spoiler +
Nobody is too young to reference that, man. Everybody's seen Indiana Jones >.>
On a different note, I've been spamming Miss Fortune to find that she's actually a really fun champion. A lot of people tell me to Max Q first, but Max E also seems to be pretty strong; is one better than the other?
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On July 16 2015 01:41 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 22:22 Seuss wrote:
As a software engineer I haven't the faintest idea how that kind of bug could happen. It's practically awe-inspiring. I spend my lunch discussing this bug 2 colleagues, the only two solutions we could arrive at were Zilean is either coded as a minion or that Riot accidently developed an immature AI which is now trolling everyone.
I lied, I actually have some idea of what may be going on.
+ Show Spoiler +The first step to debugging anything is to determine what the actual symptom is. We know that when Zilean walks past an inner turret W's cost increases from 35 to 70, but there's more than one way that can happen. - The cost could be subtracted twice from Zilean's mana.
- The cost could be doubled.
- The cost could be set specifically to 70 by the inner turret.
Knowing which of these is actually occurring helps point toward what's going on. I suspect that upon investigation it will be discovered that the cost has simply doubled, but that is not certain. Now, the most obvious cause of an integer doubling is a bitwise shift left. If you don't understand what that is flee, this spoiler is not for you. The question then is whether there's an explicit bitwise shift being called erroneously, or if an unintentional shift is occurring. My first guess, given how seemingly unrelated the inner turret is to Zilean's mana costs, is the latter. The problem from here is that both of the common causes of such shifts seem unlikely. An off by 1 error, causing the indexes used to grab the cost value to be one to the right of where they should be, is unlikely because none of that logic should have anything to do with turret shields. By the same token, a stray bit being removed from Zilean's data would result in far more than just doubled mana costs, so that seems unlikely as well. Whichever of the two, or possible some other option, is causing the problem probably was some sort of a bugfix or optimization, the consequences of which were not adequately considered or tested.
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On July 16 2015 03:55 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 01:41 Jek wrote:On July 15 2015 22:22 Seuss wrote:
As a software engineer I haven't the faintest idea how that kind of bug could happen. It's practically awe-inspiring. I spend my lunch discussing this bug 2 colleagues, the only two solutions we could arrive at were Zilean is either coded as a minion or that Riot accidently developed an immature AI which is now trolling everyone. I lied, I actually have some idea of what may be going on. + Show Spoiler +The first step to debugging anything is to determine what the actual symptom is. We know that when Zilean walks past an inner turret W's cost increases from 35 to 70, but there's more than one way that can happen. - The cost could be subtracted twice from Zilean's mana.
- The cost could be doubled.
- The cost could be set specifically to 70 by the inner turret.
Knowing which of these is actually occurring helps point toward what's going on. I suspect that upon investigation it will be discovered that the cost has simply doubled, but that is not certain. Now, the most obvious cause of an integer doubling is a bitwise shift left. If you don't understand what that is flee, this spoiler is not for you. The question then is whether there's an explicit bitwise shift being called erroneously, or if an unintentional shift is occurring. My first guess, given how seemingly unrelated the inner turret is to Zilean's mana costs, is the latter. The problem from here is that both of the common causes of such shifts seem unlikely. An off by 1 error, causing the indexes used to grab the cost value to be one to the right of where they should be, is unlikely because none of that logic should have anything to do with turret shields. By the same token, a stray bit being removed from Zilean's data would result in far more than just doubled mana costs, so that seems unlikely as well. Whichever of the two, or possible some other option, is causing the problem probably was some sort of a bugfix or optimization, the consequences of which were not adequately considered or tested.
I really don't think this is due to some awkward C++ behaviour. This is probably due to bad scripting.
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On July 16 2015 01:59 Kaethis wrote:
In the vein of new stupid shit: How dumb is Sated Devourer on Vayne exactly? I played against one a bit ago, she got fed, she utterly fucking wrecked us. Maybe because she had a good start off of our jungler doing some creative jungling but the damage seemed bonkers.
Jungle? Risking invades, but stupid when she hits Sated. Lane? Win lane or lose game.
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On July 16 2015 03:44 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 22:36 Gahlo wrote:On July 15 2015 22:32 AsmodeusXI wrote:On July 15 2015 22:22 Seuss wrote:
As a software engineer I haven't the faintest idea how that kind of bug could happen. It's practically awe-inspiring. Every time something like this comes up I have that feeling. "How could those two things POSSIBLY be related?" It makes me want to look at Riot's code base. Or maybe not because it'll probably have a similar effect as the Ark of the Covenant. For those too young for the reference. + Show Spoiler + Nobody is too young to reference that, man. Everybody's seen Indiana Jones >.> On a different note, I've been spamming Miss Fortune to find that she's actually a really fun champion. A lot of people tell me to Max Q first, but Max E also seems to be pretty strong; is one better than the other?
I'm confused,sometimes I dont even lvl up E once till I maxed q and w first.I think E is kinda useless and not needed early,expect maybe putting 1 point into it at lvl 4.
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shot in the dark but could be it something to do with the way tower is constantly updating zileans hp, so its jamming up whatevers running so it takes the mana off twice before it realizes rewind was already cast
i mean rewind is already doing a lot reducing cds, could also be some terrible thing where rewind still reduces its on CD but it gets set back by something else, so it sees its "on cd" twice so it takes mana off twice
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On July 16 2015 04:14 GiftPflanZe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 03:44 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On July 15 2015 22:36 Gahlo wrote:On July 15 2015 22:32 AsmodeusXI wrote:On July 15 2015 22:22 Seuss wrote:
As a software engineer I haven't the faintest idea how that kind of bug could happen. It's practically awe-inspiring. Every time something like this comes up I have that feeling. "How could those two things POSSIBLY be related?" It makes me want to look at Riot's code base. Or maybe not because it'll probably have a similar effect as the Ark of the Covenant. For those too young for the reference. + Show Spoiler + Nobody is too young to reference that, man. Everybody's seen Indiana Jones >.> On a different note, I've been spamming Miss Fortune to find that she's actually a really fun champion. A lot of people tell me to Max Q first, but Max E also seems to be pretty strong; is one better than the other? I'm confused,sometimes I dont even lvl up E once till I maxed q and w first.I think E is kinda useless and not needed early,expect maybe putting 1 point into it at lvl 4.
Q or E max are both viable
W should never be leveled before either. When leveling a skill you have to ignore that fact that it sounds good and actually look at the per level scaling.
W gets:
10% AS per level AND costs more, thats fucking it. That's absolutely abysmal. Like, absurdly bad scaling.
E gets:
a second off the CD
55 damage
10% slow
Never max W. Never.
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On July 16 2015 04:32 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 04:14 GiftPflanZe wrote:On July 16 2015 03:44 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On July 15 2015 22:36 Gahlo wrote:On July 15 2015 22:32 AsmodeusXI wrote:On July 15 2015 22:22 Seuss wrote:
As a software engineer I haven't the faintest idea how that kind of bug could happen. It's practically awe-inspiring. Every time something like this comes up I have that feeling. "How could those two things POSSIBLY be related?" It makes me want to look at Riot's code base. Or maybe not because it'll probably have a similar effect as the Ark of the Covenant. For those too young for the reference. + Show Spoiler + Nobody is too young to reference that, man. Everybody's seen Indiana Jones >.> On a different note, I've been spamming Miss Fortune to find that she's actually a really fun champion. A lot of people tell me to Max Q first, but Max E also seems to be pretty strong; is one better than the other? I'm confused,sometimes I dont even lvl up E once till I maxed q and w first.I think E is kinda useless and not needed early,expect maybe putting 1 point into it at lvl 4. Q or E max are both viable W should never be leveled before either. When leveling a skill you have to ignore that fact that it sounds good and actually look at the per level scaling. W gets: 10% AS per level AND costs more, thats fucking it. That's absolutely abysmal. Like, absurdly bad scaling. E gets: a second off the CD 55 damage 10% slow Never max W. Never.
I see,never noticed it has such a terrible scaling.Thanks!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://media3.giphy.com/media/L4caiF7GTkgJa/giphy.gif)
