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HyperST
Canada279 Posts
On June 24 2015 13:45 Gahlo wrote: Keep in mind that TSM with Amazing was good enough to take a game off of SSW and nobody is SSW right now. I don't recommend using that game as an example for anything, ever. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On June 24 2015 14:02 HyperST wrote: I don't recommend using that game as an example for anything, ever. China and Korea, while the clear favorites, are overrated. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
I think he's just tilting. It's one thing for your mechanics and champ mastery to decline or fall behind, but it's impossible to just simply forget positioning. The argument could be made that the change in the meta has some impact, but it's not enough to explain everything. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On June 24 2015 14:08 Gahlo wrote: China and Korea, while the clear favorites, are overrated. Hey man, anyone can take a single game off someone with a little bit of luck but to say they're overrated. Nah especially when it comes to a best of. Let the best team win. | ||
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
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LimpingGoat
898 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 25 2015 06:35 LimpingGoat wrote: I can put up with people overrating Eastern scenes, what I am always really doubtful of is when people suggest the players are simply more talented. I'm pretty sure the results pretty much prove that. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On June 25 2015 06:36 wei2coolman wrote: I'm pretty sure the results pretty much prove that. And yet Hai can hit Challenger during a bootcamp. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 25 2015 06:37 Gahlo wrote: And yet Hai can hit Challenger during a bootcamp. Too bad he can't hit skillshots. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On June 25 2015 06:37 Gahlo wrote: And yet Hai can hit Challenger during a bootcamp. Pobelter got Challenger in Korea, proceeded to have worst split in his LCS career. Dun dun dun. I'm pretty sure that part of community who understands things (or tries to do it) have already agreed that infrastructure > players at this point, therefore Korea can be still relevant even after losing like 50 players to other regions and so on. But saying that Faker, Mata, Meiko, Koro1 and at least like 20-30 players ain't more talented than their LCS counterparts? Oh, please. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
(Skill)Shots fired pewpewpew + Show Spoiler + and missed | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 25 2015 06:47 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: Pobelter got Challenger in Korea, proceeded to have worst split in his LCS career. Dun dun dun. I'm pretty sure that part of community who understands things (or tries to do it) have already agreed that infrastructure > players at this point, therefore Korea can be still relevant even after losing like 50 players to other regions and so on. But saying that Faker, Mata, Meiko, Koro1 and at least like 20-30 players ain't more talented than their LCS counterparts? Oh, please. Yeah, I'm not saying Western players are some how innately unable to play at that level, the problem is that there's no good way of developing that talent in the West, and considering how fucking stacked talent is on the top team of the East compared to the West, it's just easier to say "Eastern players are more talented". | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On June 25 2015 07:12 Ansibled wrote: They have more players, so they have more talent. They are also better at making that talent play well enough so we can see it. This is bullshit, holy shit. There is a common rhetorical question in Russia when our national team is losing. "Hey, we have almost 150 millions people here but somehow we still have same 3 defenders as dozen years ago, how can it happen, can't we grow at least, 5-10 more?" If Western regions lack infrastructure, they're not willing to train harder and harder and streaming culture is way more cool, it's not problem of less amount of players. I don't think people legit can argue that Froggen, Bjergsen, Doublelift or WildTurtle ain't talented enough to be world contenders. It's not problem of talent, it's other things. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On June 25 2015 07:17 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: This is bullshit, holy shit. There is a common rhetorical question in Russia when our national team is losing. "Hey, we have almost 150 millions people here but somehow we still have same 3 defenders as dozen years ago, how can it happen, can't we grow at least, 5-10 more?" If Western regions lack infrastructure, they're not willing to train harder and harder and streaming culture is way more cool, it's not problem of less amount of players. I don't think people legit can argue that Froggen, Bjergsen, Doublelift or WildTurtle ain't talented enough to be world contenders. It's not problem of talent, it's other things. And Korea alone has more ranked players than EUW or NA. If Joe Random has a .05% chance of being pro quality(complete out of the ass statistic, the actual value doesn't matter.) having more players will provide more talent. That's why Korea is able to stay in a decent shape when most of their tier 1 players leave. EU has talent, but can't cultivate it well because the orgs there are barely even trying with coaching staff. NA doesn't have talent for a variety of reasons, but the orgs here are more likely to be at least trying to figure out coaching. Meanwhile Korea has about a decade head start when it comes to scouting talent and is past a lot of the trial and error of how to coach effectively. The West doesn't lack support staff because it isn't trying, it's because they're trying to build a boat while they sail it. Streaming is the result of the lack of non-endemic sponsors. Why do you think challenger 1 trick ponies stream? Because it's more fun, and usually, they can make more money doing that as opposed to going pro. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
i thought this was pretty hilarious. | ||
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Mensol
14536 Posts
On June 25 2015 08:54 wei2coolman wrote: https://twitter.com/Thooorin/status/613288152984260608 i thought this was pretty hilarious. Worth to mention that TSM announcement video got 4.955 likes and 8.712 dislikes. Some people really hate Keith right now, especially WT fanboys l o l. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On June 25 2015 08:58 Mensol wrote: https://twitter.com/liquidkeith/status/613400872895143936 Worth to mention that TSM announcement video got 4.955 likes and 8.712 dislikes. Some people really hate Keith right now, especially WT fanboys l o l. There's always a giant backlash against Regi/TSM when somebody is getting booted. | ||
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LimpingGoat
898 Posts
On June 25 2015 07:01 wei2coolman wrote: Yeah, I'm not saying Western players are some how innately unable to play at that level, the problem is that there's no good way of developing that talent in the West, and considering how fucking stacked talent is on the top team of the East compared to the West, it's just easier to say "Eastern players are more talented". East develops its talent the same way the West does, kids just playing Soloq. This game is not so insanely complex that like, our players are just getting outplayed individually. People stupidly just see one team doing better than another and then think that must mean the players on the winning team are individually better, which at the highest level at least is actually very rarely the case. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 25 2015 09:15 LimpingGoat wrote: East develops its talent the same way the West does, kids just playing Soloq. This game is not so insanely complex that like, our players are just getting outplayed individually. People stupidly just see one team doing better than another and then think that must mean the players on the winning team are individually better, which at the highest level at least is actually very rarely the case. The difference is soloqueue stars in the East get picked up by teams and developed. When was the last time being #1 in NA meant you got a shot into a team? The closest thing we've seen was Rhux winning a 1v1 tourney. | ||
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