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gg ez discussion will not be continued in GD following this post |
On May 27 2015 13:00 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2015 12:52 Sonnington wrote:On May 27 2015 12:11 JimmiC wrote:On May 27 2015 11:52 ticklishmusic wrote:On May 27 2015 11:32 Sonnington wrote:On May 27 2015 08:56 petered wrote:
Every time I hear the "inside story" about NA teams it furthers my opinion that team management/coaches are holding back NA more than the players. I think it is an environment rife with nepotism and incompetence.
This isn't to say that NA players are all superstars being held back, but I think the impact of management and coaches is vastly underrated. There was a reddit post not long ago about how most NA pros come from the west coast because they have low ping. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the newest entries into LCS that haven't been from the west coast are Quas, Meteos, Sneaky, Sheep, and Turtle. Three of them are number 1 best player at their position in the league without much debate. Turtle was a solo queue god. The newest entry from over a year ago, Sheep, is a support which isn't a mechanically demanding roll. Then there's this graph that shows the lower ping you have the higher rank you are. It also shows EUW averaging a much lower ping all around. http://www.elophant.com/league-of-legends/charts/tierNo wonder NA doesn't have any talent. The majority of the population is playing with high ping. lol @ support not being mechanically demanding Mechanics not restricted by role but by champ (I'm agreeing with you) Also anyone else having to log on twice because the first time it's failing and league shutting down? This started happening to me on the weekend. That's not untrue. Inherently the roll is less mechanically demanding than mid, top, or ADC. You can make the case jungle is less demanding. Mechanics is a rather broad term. When I talked about mechanics, I'm talking about accurately clicking the mouse and keys at the proper times. Because support isn't required to farm and isn't focused as heavily there are fewer opportunities to make bad mechanical decisions and they aren't punished as heavily. This is from someone who plays a lot of support. except a champ like thresh is super mechanically demanding where as Gareb is not, more about positioning and so on. I think people tend to say rolls they appreciate less are less mechanical or important or whatever. But its really a bad train of thought.
So what's my train of thought for being a support main who doesn't feel the roll is mechanically demanding? I main support and jungle specifically because they require less mechanics to do properly and more so planning. The only thing mechanically difficult on Thresh is using his flay to knock an enemy out of an ability. Other than that his kit isn't very stringent. His hook has a huge hitbox and requires planning to hit, not precision. Most support champs are like this.
@ticklishmusic
Yes, inherently having to click more frequently does make a roll more mechanically demanding, exhaustive, or taxing. No, a supports mechanics aren't as important as other rolls. For instance, if Thresh dies because he wasn't able to flay Leona out of an E that's less important than if Ezreal fails to E away from a Leona and dies.
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No roles are more mechanically demanding than the others.There might be some differences depending on meta at the moment but they are never big.League is a game where decision making is infinite times more important.
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As another support main, I dont either find the role as mechanically demanding as the others. It feels a lot more like a thinking mans role, if that makes any sense.
On May 27 2015 11:51 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2015 11:45 Gahlo wrote:On May 27 2015 11:32 Sonnington wrote:On May 27 2015 08:56 petered wrote:
Every time I hear the "inside story" about NA teams it furthers my opinion that team management/coaches are holding back NA more than the players. I think it is an environment rife with nepotism and incompetence.
This isn't to say that NA players are all superstars being held back, but I think the impact of management and coaches is vastly underrated. There was a reddit post not long ago about how most NA pros come from the west coast because they have low ping. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the newest entries into LCS that haven't been from the west coast are Quas, Meteos, Sneaky, Sheep, and Turtle. Three of them are number 1 best player at their position in the league without much debate. Turtle was a solo queue god. The newest entry from over a year ago, Sheep, is a support which isn't a mechanically demanding roll. Then there's this graph that shows the lower ping you have the higher rank you are. It also shows EUW averaging a much lower ping all around. http://www.elophant.com/league-of-legends/charts/tierNo wonder NA doesn't have any talent. The majority of the population is playing with high ping. + streaming culture. Out of curiosity, who do you think is being held back from going pro because they're streaming? Voyboy is really the only one I can think of. I don't pay much attention to streaming though.
Wingsofdeath had quite a few offers before he decided to go full time streamer. That's years ago tho, so I suppose it doesn't really count as beng held back any longer.
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I don't know what game you're playing if you think the support doesn't run the entire fucking show botlane for the first 10 minutes of the game. ADC does nothing but braindead last hitting, while the support carries you kicking and screaming to that 300 cs 3.1kda you think you actually earned.
the support role is right behind midlane in terms of being mechanically demanding.
Mid > Support > Top = ADC > Jungle
If you think support is not hard to play, you're doing it 100% wrong.
a janna that can or cannot stop a leona zenith blade every time wins or loses that lane. a thresh that can flay a leesin mid ward hop to deny his escape over a wall is infinitely harder to do than it is to right click someone as a 6item adc. a flash sona ult hitting 4 people wins games.
unless you're playing vayne(please don't), adc and jungle are by far last place in terms of how hard they are to play.
if you're teaching new people by having them support you, you're much worse off than had you supported them.
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other roles have to last hit and trade/fight while support only focuses on trading so i dont see in what world support is the more mechanically demanding role -.-
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On May 27 2015 16:45 ItsFunToLose wrote:
I don't know what game you're playing if you think the support doesn't run the entire fucking show botlane for the first 10 minutes of the game. ADC does nothing but braindead last hitting, while the support carries you kicking and screaming to that 300 cs 3.1kda you think you actually earned.
the support role is right behind midlane in terms of being mechanically demanding.
Mid > Support > Top = ADC > Jungle
If you think support is not hard to play, you're doing it 100% wrong.
a janna that can or cannot stop a leona zenith blade every time wins or loses that lane. a thresh that can flay a leesin mid ward hop to deny his escape over a wall is infinitely harder to do than it is to right click someone as a 6item adc. a flash sona ult hitting 4 people wins games.
unless you're playing vayne(please don't), adc and jungle are by far last place in terms of how hard they are to play.
if you're teaching new people by having them support you, you're much worse off than had you supported them.
That's not what mechanics means. At all. Mechanics literally means how well you can right click and control your champion.
If you actually think that the adc role requires very little mechanical skill than you either don't play the role much or don't realize the difference between an adc with shit mechanics and one with good mechanics. The adc role in general is by far the role with the most mechanical skill, and it's not even close.
Note I never said that it was the hardest role to play either. Just the most mechanical demanding.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Lol janna, mechanically demanding. I want some of your good shit because I've never tripped like that before.
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I'm more against the idea of saying that support or jungle are less mechanically demanding than other role. Saying so just means that you're speaking from inexperience, no offense. The margin of error for supports is very small, you have much less resources, so it's relatively more important to spend them wisely. Also, you screw up, you made it a 3v5 not a 4v5.
If you're defining mechanics in the same sense weight/reps are used in weightlifting, I can buy that. But the problem with that is that weight/reps doesn't translate to actual performance or "strength" in a lot of things.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Jungling is definitely less mechanically demanding than laning. After that it depends on what champions you play, but right now junglers tend to be less mechanically demanding champions (Sejuani, Rek'Sai...) Doesn't necessarily have to be the case though, damned Elise was hard as hell.
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idk before all the nerfs she was super easy to dominate the game, u didnt even have to land stun with how ridiculous her E range and Q base dmg was, i used to have top dmg in every match now i barely have more than support with her
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Hmm, I think almost no champion in League is really that mechanically demanding. I personally suck at everything mechanical (most played champions Sejuani and Garen lol), but still after 5 games I too could play Elise, Zed and LB at a decent level.
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Decent level does not mean very top level, there is a huge difference between what you can do with zed and leblanc and what Faker can do with zed and leblanc. However there is little difference between what you can do with nunu and what faker can do with nunu. It's not that hard to understand :^)
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On May 27 2015 19:27 RouaF wrote:
Decent level does not mean very top level, there is a huge difference between what you can do with zed and leblanc and what Faker can do with zed and leblanc. However there is little difference between what you can do with nunu and what faker can do with nunu. It's not that hard to understand :^)
If I had played Zed and LB as much as Faker had played those two, I would still come very close.
The difference in skill between Faker and us plebs isn't that much in the mechanics I think.
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Discussions about mechanics in GD always make me sad because they go in circles forever talking about what is more or less mechanical when in actuality everybody just has a different opinion of what the word mechanics means.
Nobody thinks Thresh isn't a relatively hard to play champion and nobody thinks Janna Qing Leona E isn't a good skill toi have, the only thing that's being argued is whether or not accurate right clicking counts as "mechanics" and whether or not timing things well counts as "mechanics" and it is really dumb.
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I've actually been wondering how hard that Faker's Azir maneuver was so I tried it in a custom game and did it on 3rd try (never played a game of Azir in my life). Perfect insec kick is still probably the hardest maneuver in league :p
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As far as mechanics go, it goes: adc > mid > top > support/jungle (i think they're both about equal).
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Well yeah, the "Azir montage" consisting of 2/3rd WEQ + some autos to kill an underfarmed enemy champion that got linked here a month or two back wasn't impressive at all because of that (and showing the 3v5 when he's severals levels and a bunch of kills ahead, rather than how he got there, classic montage trap).
The difficulty is pulling it off in the context of a fight, and stuff like planning ahead for your cooldowns to align without losing opportunities, positioning, reaction time if you failed to plan, etc. but the execution it self is super simple. That's why you'd need full games or longer clips to get maneuvers you'd be able to truly appreciate.
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On May 27 2015 17:53 Scip wrote:
Jungling is definitely less mechanically demanding than laning. After that it depends on what champions you play, but right now junglers tend to be less mechanically demanding champions (Sejuani, Rek'Sai...) Doesn't necessarily have to be the case though, damned Elise was hard as hell.
Don't understand what is hard about laning?If you can teamfight you can lane.The hard part of lane is knowing when you should trade and w/e not actually doing it.Even for example flaying a leona e as thresh is incredibly easy the hard part is being in position to do it if she lands her e on your adc.
On May 27 2015 16:45 ItsFunToLose wrote:
I don't know what game you're playing if you think the support doesn't run the entire fucking show botlane for the first 10 minutes of the game. ADC does nothing but braindead last hitting, while the support carries you kicking and screaming to that 300 cs 3.1kda you think you actually earned.
the support role is right behind midlane in terms of being mechanically demanding.
Mid > Support > Top = ADC > Jungle
If you think support is not hard to play, you're doing it 100% wrong.
a janna that can or cannot stop a leona zenith blade every time wins or loses that lane. a thresh that can flay a leesin mid ward hop to deny his escape over a wall is infinitely harder to do than it is to right click someone as a 6item adc. a flash sona ult hitting 4 people wins games.
unless you're playing vayne(please don't), adc and jungle are by far last place in terms of how hard they are to play.
if you're teaching new people by having them support you, you're much worse off than had you supported them.
Rofl thanks for the laugh mate.10/10 comedy
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Mechanics depend on the champ you're playing. All ADC's have some element of kiting/"orbwalking" that makes them a bit harder mechanically, but besides that, it's just the champ.
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On May 27 2015 20:50 IMoperator wrote:
As far as mechanics go, it goes: adc > mid > top > support/jungle (i think they're both about equal).
Making a tier list doesn't really make sense considering mechanical difficulty depends primarily of champion choice.
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EPT
