EPT[Patch 5.9] Ashe Rework General Discussion - Page 15
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Gahlo
United States35150 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I'm surprised, I thought pawn played like shit pretty much that entire series. First game he lost lane hard after going all in when he knew the enemy junglers was behind him and nonsensically not using summoners to get away. Second game he missed ult over and over, died without ulting, etc. Third game his team carried him hard. He started the game what 1/0/2 (think that was game 3? Hard to check on my phone) and ended up not being impactful or really winning lane. Fourth game despite his team being ahead he completely fucked up multiple teamfights. I guess the morg was pretty good? I dunno. My impression of the series was in every game where Koro did well he carried EDG, and in every game where Koro didn't do well they lost. | ||
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
On May 16 2015 09:20 Ryuu314 wrote: Huh. I actually had the opposite reaction. I don't like that they're taking a ton of damage away from Karma Yeah, solo lane bully Karma doesn't sound very strong anymore. More due to removing the heal from her W than removing the bonus damage from the W and E. But her shield utility is going to go through the roof rivaling or even beating Lulu in raw eHP. In any event, her damage isn't nerfed in any significant way for her support. I have a friend who used to main Karma and I've played against her a number of times. She either snowballs the lane by level 6 and keeps snowballing or she's just a useless feeder. With her damage amp and her improved shield utility it sounds like she'll be better off post level 6 without having to snowball. | ||
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droserin
127 Posts
On May 16 2015 11:21 Sonnington wrote: Yeah, solo lane bully Karma doesn't sound very strong anymore. More due to removing the heal from her W than removing the bonus damage from the W and E. But her shield utility is going to go through the roof rivaling or even beating Lulu in raw eHP. In any event, her damage isn't nerfed in any significant way for her support. I have a friend who used to main Karma and I've played against her a number of times. She either snowballs the lane by level 6 and keeps snowballing or she's just a useless feeder. With her damage amp and her improved shield utility it sounds like she'll be better off post level 6 without having to snowball. They changed the W damage amp back to healing. | ||
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
On May 16 2015 11:35 droserin wrote: They changed the W damage amp back to healing. Oh, I see. So it would appear from Ricklessabandon's twitter that she's only losing the bonus damage from her empowered E. Not from her W. She should still be just as strong of a lane bully in that case. | ||
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OhTwoMise
United States164 Posts
On May 15 2015 06:23 Goumindong wrote: We will find out of her win rate goes up or down the next time we look at the stats. I actually think it's going to drop a bit because the power of the auto-crit burst and the item timing advantages due to her e* (as well as preferring the cheaper shiv to pd) were a lot stronger than people gave credit for. But the free 15% attack speed is really powerful (not much lategame effect because they took off 12 AS/18 levels) early game and her total dps did go up due to the free crit damage and she has a big dps spike for 5 seconds with her q so it's tough to say. *its only a few hundred gold by mid game but if that, combined with shiv, means you hit your 2 item timing 1 minute faster where you can auto IE-shiv crit to start a fight on a squishy that is a huge advantage compared to the other guy who hasn't combined his PD yet. I'm actually convinced Shiv was a trap on Ashe. Kind of a moot point now, but I had by far the most success with Brutalizer + BF + CDR boots (which is roughly the same price point as naked IE) into IE + Ghostblade. My guess is it's probably not right anymore with the gigantic Volley nerf and increased focus on autos. I'd also wager that new Ashe is worse for people who were very good at Ashe, but better for everyone else. And not just from the learning new mechanics angle. New Ashe's strengths are much more in-line with your average pub player's tendencies. Mostly the ability to manfight, but also less reliance on Volley in general. In my experience, whether someone was good at Ashe was completely independent of whether they were good at other AD carries. Which is probably why she got changed. That and Volley. Man that pisses me off. | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
I'd build so much stupid shit on Ashe (especially/mostly on ARAMs, but hey.) Triforce ashe at lvl9 was actually good for how stupid it sounds. Hell, it's probably at least as good now. There was also the '40% CDR and every pen item in the game' build to make sure the enemy team was never healthy enough to engage until you arrowed. Think new Ashe will take a bit to find a good niche. Can't be 'the ADC for bad ADCs' forever. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On May 16 2015 10:16 Gahlo wrote: If Faker is still the best player/mid in the world, then Kkoma is a bad coach. kkoma did fuck that last draft | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
kkoma also likes to pick blind xerath for faker :> | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
fucking up one draft =/= bad coach they have a few win under their belt.... | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On May 16 2015 12:53 OhTwoMise wrote: I'm actually convinced Shiv was a trap on Ashe. Kind of a moot point now, but I had by far the most success with Brutalizer + BF + CDR boots (which is roughly the same price point as naked IE) into IE + Ghostblade. My guess is it's probably not right anymore with the gigantic Volley nerf and increased focus on autos. I'd also wager that new Ashe is worse for people who were very good at Ashe, but better for everyone else. And not just from the learning new mechanics angle. New Ashe's strengths are much more in-line with your average pub player's tendencies. Mostly the ability to manfight, but also less reliance on Volley in general. In my experience, whether someone was good at Ashe was completely independent of whether they were good at other AD carries. Which is probably why she got changed. That and Volley. Man that pisses me off. Shiv was definitely not a trap on Ashe. The free/guaranteed crit magnified the power of the proc such that Ashe has the second or first highest burst of any AD in the game (ult+w+auto crit with shiv was higher than a graves 3q, auto, ult if graves had pd!). Additionally the free/guaranteed crit reduced the primary weakness of going shiv (IE getting less crits) just because of how free stats work. Also any time Ashe had to reposition without attacking in a fight was basically just charging another free shiv-crit. Utilizing your shiv timing and burst was super important to old ashe. The fact that she still utilized it better than PD is probably the sole reason that her win rate jumped with the shiv nerf. Other ADs were more effected and so went to PD, this gave Ashe a big timing window due to her e and the small amount of gold from avarice and the fact that shiv is cheaper. Brut+Bf+CDR is OK but falls off hard late and/or it you can't get a siege up and running. If you can through you can shove people off towers like nothing. But it's not really a "go to" build imo On May 16 2015 04:07 GrandInquisitor wrote: With the new Ashe rework, is it possible to build bruiser Ashe with Ghost/Flash? You offer a significant amount of utility with permanent ranged slows and insane BC synergy, though you don't really have any mobility spells. No. She has 300 move speed, no mobility, and some of the weakest base stats in the game. She will just die over and over again. Edit: I should elaborate. As an adc your job is to be in a position where you can be peeled for. And because of this you can focus damage. As a bruiser your job is to be in a position where you need to be peeled. Ashe, by virtue of her stats, can't ever be in that position and not be dead. If she flashes/ghosts away then she has lost her purpose since, without crit and damage she doesn't do anything but provide a slow. Any bruised can provide a slow or soft cc. And they can do so while actually supporting the ability to be in the position they need to be. You're better off running pure support into AD in order to be an ult/volley bot in sieges/picks and that is really bad now n | ||
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
the Q...no damage | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
New Ashe is old ashe but better in most ways, so. Assassins still fuck her up though, and no lane cheese. | ||
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TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On May 16 2015 14:20 Caiada wrote: The base on Q is really shit. Calling it in 5.10 tho, he'll be a teamfight god. He can't bully anymore, so nobody knows what to do with him. I doubt it, they'd have to massively overtune Ryze's numbers to even approach what he did before. They gutted his damage across the board if you don't have gobs of AP. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On May 16 2015 10:24 Ketara wrote: + Show Spoiler + I'm surprised, I thought pawn played like shit pretty much that entire series. First game he lost lane hard after going all in when he knew the enemy junglers was behind him and nonsensically not using summoners to get away. Second game he missed ult over and over, died without ulting, etc. Third game his team carried him hard. He started the game what 1/0/2 (think that was game 3? Hard to check on my phone) and ended up not being impactful or really winning lane. Fourth game despite his team being ahead he completely fucked up multiple teamfights. I guess the morg was pretty good? I dunno. My impression of the series was in every game where Koro did well he carried EDG, and in every game where Koro didn't do well they lost. Tbh I kind of agree. Pawn did play well Game 4 & 5 and felt a lot more "warmed up" during those games but he was probably the most underwhelming player on EDG during MSI. In terms of performance top down it was Koro=Meiko > Clearlove > Deft > Pawn for me. | ||
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Kaethis
Netherlands112 Posts
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