EPTEkko would get rekt by ranged mages like Cassio, Viktor and Azir.
[Patch 5.9] Ashe Rework General Discussion - Page 13
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Mensol
14536 Posts
Ekko would get rekt by ranged mages like Cassio, Viktor and Azir. | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4122 Posts
Firsthand experience tells me all 3 of those kinda do wreck him, but probably at masters level vlad is favored. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On May 16 2015 04:42 Mensol wrote: Do people really play mid with Ekko? I was certain that he was a top champion. Ekko would get rekt by ranged mages like Cassio, Viktor and Azir. He's got stronger zone-control than Viktor (his W is almost always better, and since Viktor's W has a long starting time and stacking time, the 3s delay shouldn't even be that big), counteracts his kiting tools (passive and E, possibly R, to get out of W, and his own passive and Q beat Viktor's use of augmented Q to keep his distance), and the numbers on his Q look like good waveclear. Unless he's really really squishy (so eating 1-2 Es can prevent him from all-ining), I'd say he's naturally advantaged against Viktor. His E alone is enough to force winning trades the way Zed and LB do, and it's the kind of tool that has the potential to make Viktor's laning "I'm zoned and get whatever I can". (On the plus side for Viktor, the nerf of Annie's range is a boon for him.) | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On May 16 2015 04:42 Mensol wrote: Do people really play mid with Ekko? I was certain that he was a top champion. Ekko would get rekt by ranged mages like Cassio, Viktor and Azir. People said the same about Zed/ Yasuo | ||
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Mensol
14536 Posts
fuck that champ. im getting dumpstered whenever i play against Darius. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
I don't know about Zed, but its true for a not-Overtuned Yasuo. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On May 16 2015 04:57 Alaric wrote: He's got stronger zone-control than Viktor (his W is almost always better, and since Viktor's W has a long starting time and stacking time, the 3s delay shouldn't even be that big), counteracts his kiting tools (passive and E, possibly R, to get out of W, and his own passive and Q beat Viktor's use of augmented Q to keep his distance), and the numbers on his Q look like good waveclear. Unless he's really really squishy (so eating 1-2 Es can prevent him from all-ining), I'd say he's naturally advantaged against Viktor. His E alone is enough to force winning trades the way Zed and LB do, and it's the kind of tool that has the potential to make Viktor's laning "I'm zoned and get whatever I can". (On the plus side for Viktor, the nerf of Annie's range is a boon for him.) I would disagree heavily with this. A three second setup time for a VERY conditional stun is absolutely enormous. Viktor has far far stronger zone control barring Ekko's full zhonyas lategame combo. Viktor's entire kit is anti engage and zone control. Ekko can control an area after a three second delay, only if he puts his delicate ass inside the area he's trying to control. Ekko E certainly does not force a winning trade on viktor, if viktor drops his stun ontop of himself he gets a guaranteed stun and gets to land all of his own abilities and four or five autos, compared to one or two autos and Q from Ekko. If Viktor can prevent 3 passive stacks then Ekko get REALLY fucked. Zed and LB are obnoxious pricks because they can jump in and out while maintaining their entire damage combo and never stay in one place long enough to get hit, while harassing safely before their allin combo. Unless he ults out, Ekko get the full lasers up the ass as he walks away, and Ekko's harass has a far far lower effective range than zed or LB's with its incredibly slow final speed. Even if you land it, you have to get both parts or its 60 / 75 / 90 / 105 / 130 (+ 20% AP) mega mega weak. Also, Viktor's "sit under tower and get what I can" is incredibly strong, and his lategame teamfight is massive and almost impossible to prevent. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35147 Posts
On May 16 2015 06:04 cLutZ wrote: I don't know about Zed, but its true for a not-Overtuned Yasuo. Right, because Yasuo is totally in a good state right now. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 16 2015 06:10 Gahlo wrote: Right, because Yasuo is totally in a good state right now. I doubt a champion with that kit ever will be. Maybe there will be a mystery patch where he's well balanced, but then he will be crappy or op again. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On May 16 2015 05:57 Mensol wrote: fun fact: ive never beat Darius in lane. fuck that champ. im getting dumpstered whenever i play against Darius. Try not to trade unless he blows a CD or you can stun him, stay in the wave so he pushes it when he uses Q.-> He ends up at your tower-> your jungler ganks his immobile ass-> Win Or just be more useful lategame->Win | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On May 16 2015 06:10 Gahlo wrote: Right, because Yasuo is totally in a good state right now. i think he's in a good spot not fucking retarded to lane against. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
you don't jump on him. You use the threat or your mobility against him: if Viktor walks up, you can harass him, and if he tries to harass you with E, you can dodge it with you mobility and force a trade on him. Losing his main damage tool (and considering you can also force his 17s cooldown W then walk out) means he automatically loses the trade, along with all kill threat on you even if he all-ins. Zed is annoying because he has good waveclear but can also harass you on a low cooldown. Leblanc is annoying because she has higher burst on a lower cooldown, and can get out more easily with Distortion's second cast. Typical Zed lane is he gets his first item and level 6 for kill potential on you, and you can't get close to him because he does more damage (Viktor's Q is bad, even with the shield, keep that in mind; also Zed's auto hurt much more because W passive and he builds AD) and also has more sustain (since he often goes cutlass first). You can't really trade harass since his Q has a lower cd. If you try to E first, he can also dodge it for free with W while getting near on top of you, getting a double Q off (and maybe an E). If you burn W, he doesn't really care, he'll have W up earlier, and isn't required to sit on you. His trades are shorter than your E cd too. If you get harassed a bit, he can all-in you with W and R, with the second cast of R pulling him out of your W if you try to use it on yourself (and of you ult too). If you want to push the whole wave with E, you basically have to walk within ult range for him, so he can save W to go back in after yours, or get out of it and still have his ult's shadow available. He can cast all his spells and auto once or twice within the 1.5s necessary to stun him, so if you're within kill range your W won't do much (and he'll go out after the Q/auto/E/ignite/cutlass active combo). The important thing is that Zed doesn't shove. He just last hits the wave, freezes it if he can, and you miss at least 2 cs a wave to this. That's what I meant by "stay under the tower and get whatever cs you can". Re: Ekko, his passive says "autos and spells stack his debuff", so you could get it off by hitting Q, then Eing onto your target (I assume Q is a free hit if you manage to get behind them, if not then it depends on the hitbox). If Q can potentially apply two stacks, then it's very easy for Ekko to get his passive off as long as he's willing to get in... and getting out mustn't be too hard when you steal 40% MS for 2s right after that. On May 16 2015 05:57 Mensol wrote: fun fact: ive never beat Darius in lane. fuck that champ. im getting dumpstered whenever i play against Darius. Yesterday you told me "nothing beats Vlad". Unstoppable force vs inmovable object go! ... or you just lied to me. D: But yeah you don't need to beat Darius in lane, you can usually outscale him, although his ult is dangerous for tanks (I still believe unless your team has high burst+initiation you're better off going tank and using your first dunk to topple their frontline before they do the same to yours, then focus the remaining enemies one by one) with Cinderhulk and the main frontliner coming from the jungle, people tend to rely more on HP than resists atm, so he's not even as dangerous as he used to. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On May 16 2015 06:10 Gahlo wrote: Right, because Yasuo is totally in a good state right now. I thought he seemed like he'd be legit after the shield buffs, but I haven't played him because of how bad non mixed lineups are vs. cinderhulk (not specifically a Yasuo problem) | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
I think I would like him though if he wasn't a kid. | ||
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Mensol
14536 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On May 16 2015 06:58 Alaric wrote: About Viktor: you don't jump on him. You use the threat or your mobility against him: if Viktor walks up, you can harass him, and if he tries to harass you with E, you can dodge it with you mobility and force a trade on him. Losing his main damage tool (and considering you can also force his 17s cooldown W then walk out) means he automatically loses the trade, along with all kill threat on you even if he all-ins. Ekko's E has 425 range total with the blink, Viktor's E has 1050...and a lower CD until Ekko hits level 4 E. If Viktor lets you blink on him off of a failed e then he fucked up. Both LB and zed have over 1050 engage range. LB has 1200 while landing the ultDistortion, Zed has 1175. | ||
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