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On November 18 2014 00:00 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2014 23:32 Numy wrote:On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.
Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past. Got any starting tips? - Practice in a custom game first, and second.
- Make rune/mastery choices based purely on what will help you clear the jungle quicker and safer.
- Start Red if your team is giving you a leash, or if you're fairly certain you won't be invaded. Otherwise pick a small camp according to your needs.
That's the quick and dirty. Here's some more in depth stuff: + Show Spoiler +The new jungle is very S1-like, and by virtue of that optimizing the safety and speed of your first clear takes precedence over other considerations. Not all junglers need to be completely optimized for clearing, but it's far, far easier to start there and dial back than the other way around. For example, the Sejuani setup I ended up using was Full AD Quints/Marks and Armor Seals/Glyphs with these masteries: http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/#9L4Gc5z0.IqCjYC.6923P.0A fact that I cant stress enough is that buff camps yield the same experience and roughly the same gold as any other camp. Prior to S5 the damage done by stealing a buff camp was brutal primarily because of the lost experience and gold. In the new jungle if your jungler is fine without that buff it's literally no worse than losing a small camp. As such, if you don't need Blue buff to clear effectively there's little reason to rush it. You can even pass it off to your mid lane on your first clear without having much effect at all (so long as you take the small minions you'll have enough gold for boots + Machete upgrade on your first back). In most cases you'll want to start or quickly take your Red buff because it goes a long way toward sustaining you as you clear. If you're on a jungler who simply doesn't need the extra sustain you can safely ignore it, but most junglers are going to want their Red ASAP. Show nested quote +On November 17 2014 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.
Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past. Frog(smite) -> doubles/wolves -> red(smite) -> Blue -> wolves/gank work pretty well though on a lot of champions. On November 17 2014 23:55 Celial wrote:
Oddone says Buff, 2 camps, buff, 4 camps is first full clear That has a big window of the jungler just not doing anything though. and if you start red, a counter jungler on blue can go red -> your blue and split the map top/bottom Any combination of a camp that helps you clear -> a camp that doesn't -> Red -> 3 more camps works well. Routes are so fluid in the new jungle because all the camps have exactly the same experience value and roughly the same gold value that I imagine routes will be a hot topic for a while. The key is that 6 camps is the magic number for buying boots+machete upgrade on your first back. As for Blue, screw it. Least useful jungle buff NA.
Most of the time the red -> blue transition is just to get you on that side of the map and to manage your timers more than anything. no reason to take a small camp right before a gank with the longer timers when you can take a buff and guarantee you have that small camp up as a fallback.
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On November 18 2014 00:18 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2014 00:00 Seuss wrote:On November 17 2014 23:32 Numy wrote:On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.
Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past. Got any starting tips? - Practice in a custom game first, and second.
- Make rune/mastery choices based purely on what will help you clear the jungle quicker and safer.
- Start Red if your team is giving you a leash, or if you're fairly certain you won't be invaded. Otherwise pick a small camp according to your needs.
That's the quick and dirty. Here's some more in depth stuff: + Show Spoiler +The new jungle is very S1-like, and by virtue of that optimizing the safety and speed of your first clear takes precedence over other considerations. Not all junglers need to be completely optimized for clearing, but it's far, far easier to start there and dial back than the other way around. For example, the Sejuani setup I ended up using was Full AD Quints/Marks and Armor Seals/Glyphs with these masteries: http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/#9L4Gc5z0.IqCjYC.6923P.0A fact that I cant stress enough is that buff camps yield the same experience and roughly the same gold as any other camp. Prior to S5 the damage done by stealing a buff camp was brutal primarily because of the lost experience and gold. In the new jungle if your jungler is fine without that buff it's literally no worse than losing a small camp. As such, if you don't need Blue buff to clear effectively there's little reason to rush it. You can even pass it off to your mid lane on your first clear without having much effect at all (so long as you take the small minions you'll have enough gold for boots + Machete upgrade on your first back). In most cases you'll want to start or quickly take your Red buff because it goes a long way toward sustaining you as you clear. If you're on a jungler who simply doesn't need the extra sustain you can safely ignore it, but most junglers are going to want their Red ASAP. On November 17 2014 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.
Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past. Frog(smite) -> doubles/wolves -> red(smite) -> Blue -> wolves/gank work pretty well though on a lot of champions. On November 17 2014 23:55 Celial wrote:
Oddone says Buff, 2 camps, buff, 4 camps is first full clear That has a big window of the jungler just not doing anything though. and if you start red, a counter jungler on blue can go red -> your blue and split the map top/bottom Any combination of a camp that helps you clear -> a camp that doesn't -> Red -> 3 more camps works well. Routes are so fluid in the new jungle because all the camps have exactly the same experience value and roughly the same gold value that I imagine routes will be a hot topic for a while. The key is that 6 camps is the magic number for buying boots+machete upgrade on your first back. As for Blue, screw it. Least useful jungle buff NA. Most of the time the red -> blue transition is just to get you on that side of the map and to manage your timers more than anything. no reason to take a small camp right before a gank with the longer timers when you can take a buff and guarantee you have that small camp up as a fallback.
Historically speaking the Buff->Buff transition has been in place to secure the bulk of your jungle experience and gold plus your vital ganking/clearing buffs as quickly as possible. Timing/map considerations were strictly secondary.
In the new jungle buff camps are glorified small camps.
I can't stress the bolded point enough. That, more than even the upped jungle difficulty, is going to be the hardest adjustment for experienced junglers. We're so very, very used to being extremely focused on Blue and Red that it's going to be hard to acknowledge how unimportant they actually are.
Like seriously. I'd never bother to counter-jungle an enemy's blue buff unless their mid was extremely blue reliant. It's just not worth it now. even without Raptors as an alternative target.
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On November 18 2014 01:04 Seuss wrote:
Historically speaking the Buff->Buff transition has been in place to secure the bulk of your jungle experience and gold plus your vital ganking/clearing buffs as quickly as possible. Timing/map considerations were strictly secondary.
In the new jungle buff camps are glorified small camps.
I can't stress the bolded point enough. That, more than even the upped jungle difficulty, is going to be the hardest adjustment for experienced junglers. We're so very, very used to being extremely focused on Blue and Red that it's going to be hard to acknowledge how unimportant they actually are.
Like seriously. I'd never bother to counter-jungle an enemy's blue buff unless their mid was extremely blue reliant. It's just not worth it now. even without Raptors as an alternative target.
K but i was talking about in my frog start route. the reason you went from red-> blue was because either wolves was up for power farming right after, or taking blue managed the respawn timers better than taking a small camp because if a gank gets shut down right away, you'd be forced to go back to blue post failed gank, which is a little slower, but also lowers your options on where to actually travel. if you take blue prior to the gank, and it fails and you need to go farm, you can go to either side of the jungle, rather than just blue-side.
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On November 18 2014 00:00 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2014 23:32 Numy wrote:On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.
Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past. Got any starting tips? - Practice in a custom game first, and second.
- Make rune/mastery choices based purely on what will help you clear the jungle quicker and safer.
- Start Red if your team is giving you a leash, or if you're fairly certain you won't be invaded. Otherwise pick a small camp according to your needs.
That's the quick and dirty. Here's some more in depth stuff: + Show Spoiler +The new jungle is very S1-like, and by virtue of that optimizing the safety and speed of your first clear takes precedence over other considerations. Not all junglers need to be completely optimized for clearing, but it's far, far easier to start there and dial back than the other way around. For example, the Sejuani setup I ended up using was Full AD Quints/Marks and Armor Seals/Glyphs with these masteries: http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/#9L4Gc5z0.IqCjYC.6923P.0A fact that I cant stress enough is that buff camps yield the same experience and roughly the same gold as any other camp. Prior to S5 the damage done by stealing a buff camp was brutal primarily because of the lost experience and gold. In the new jungle if your jungler is fine without that buff it's literally no worse than losing a small camp. As such, if you don't need Blue buff to clear effectively there's little reason to rush it. You can even pass it off to your mid lane on your first clear without having much effect at all (so long as you take the small minions you'll have enough gold for boots + Machete upgrade on your first back). In most cases you'll want to start or quickly take your Red buff because it goes a long way toward sustaining you as you clear. If you're on a jungler who simply doesn't need the extra sustain you can safely ignore it, but most junglers are going to want their Red ASAP. Show nested quote +On November 17 2014 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.
Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past. Frog(smite) -> doubles/wolves -> red(smite) -> Blue -> wolves/gank work pretty well though on a lot of champions. On November 17 2014 23:55 Celial wrote:
Oddone says Buff, 2 camps, buff, 4 camps is first full clear That has a big window of the jungler just not doing anything though. and if you start red, a counter jungler on blue can go red -> your blue and split the map top/bottom Any combination of a camp that helps you clear -> a camp that doesn't -> Red -> 3 more camps works well. Routes are so fluid in the new jungle because all the camps have exactly the same experience value and roughly the same gold value that I imagine routes will be a hot topic for a while. The key is that 6 camps is the magic number for buying boots+machete upgrade on your first back. As for Blue, screw it. Least useful jungle buff NA.
Thanks for the info, got this replied saved for this week :D. I was thinking of staying with the aoe smite upgrade at first as it seems the safest one to get used to the new jungle. Is this a bad idea?
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Wasn't there initially a new build path for essence reaver so it had mana regen during the buildup? Don't see it in this preseason for dummies guide
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On November 18 2014 01:14 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2014 01:04 Seuss wrote:
Historically speaking the Buff->Buff transition has been in place to secure the bulk of your jungle experience and gold plus your vital ganking/clearing buffs as quickly as possible. Timing/map considerations were strictly secondary.
In the new jungle buff camps are glorified small camps.
I can't stress the bolded point enough. That, more than even the upped jungle difficulty, is going to be the hardest adjustment for experienced junglers. We're so very, very used to being extremely focused on Blue and Red that it's going to be hard to acknowledge how unimportant they actually are.
Like seriously. I'd never bother to counter-jungle an enemy's blue buff unless their mid was extremely blue reliant. It's just not worth it now. even without Raptors as an alternative target. K but i was talking about in my frog start route. the reason you went from red-> blue was because either wolves was up for power farming right after, or taking blue managed the respawn timers better than taking a small camp because if a gank gets shut down right away, you'd be forced to go back to blue post failed gank, which is a little slower, but also lowers your options on where to actually travel. if you take blue prior to the gank, and it fails and you need to go farm, you can go to either side of the jungle, rather than just blue-side.
Which side of the jungle you return to is only valuable insofar as it relates to things outside of the jungle, in which case one small camp is sufficient. Unless your gank was extremely quick the other will be respawning shortly anyway, and you can always gnab a crab if whatever reason you chose that side in the first place hasn't materialized. If all you want to do is farm which side you pick is almost completely irrelevant.
So basically you're plotting a route with significant inefficiencies (e.g. Frog -> Golems, Red -> Blue) in order to optimize something that shouldn't be a point of optimization anyway.
On November 18 2014 01:17 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2014 00:00 Seuss wrote:On November 17 2014 23:32 Numy wrote:On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.
Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past. Got any starting tips? - Practice in a custom game first, and second.
- Make rune/mastery choices based purely on what will help you clear the jungle quicker and safer.
- Start Red if your team is giving you a leash, or if you're fairly certain you won't be invaded. Otherwise pick a small camp according to your needs.
That's the quick and dirty. Here's some more in depth stuff: + Show Spoiler +The new jungle is very S1-like, and by virtue of that optimizing the safety and speed of your first clear takes precedence over other considerations. Not all junglers need to be completely optimized for clearing, but it's far, far easier to start there and dial back than the other way around. For example, the Sejuani setup I ended up using was Full AD Quints/Marks and Armor Seals/Glyphs with these masteries: http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/#9L4Gc5z0.IqCjYC.6923P.0A fact that I cant stress enough is that buff camps yield the same experience and roughly the same gold as any other camp. Prior to S5 the damage done by stealing a buff camp was brutal primarily because of the lost experience and gold. In the new jungle if your jungler is fine without that buff it's literally no worse than losing a small camp. As such, if you don't need Blue buff to clear effectively there's little reason to rush it. You can even pass it off to your mid lane on your first clear without having much effect at all (so long as you take the small minions you'll have enough gold for boots + Machete upgrade on your first back). In most cases you'll want to start or quickly take your Red buff because it goes a long way toward sustaining you as you clear. If you're on a jungler who simply doesn't need the extra sustain you can safely ignore it, but most junglers are going to want their Red ASAP. On November 17 2014 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.
Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past. Frog(smite) -> doubles/wolves -> red(smite) -> Blue -> wolves/gank work pretty well though on a lot of champions. On November 17 2014 23:55 Celial wrote:
Oddone says Buff, 2 camps, buff, 4 camps is first full clear That has a big window of the jungler just not doing anything though. and if you start red, a counter jungler on blue can go red -> your blue and split the map top/bottom Any combination of a camp that helps you clear -> a camp that doesn't -> Red -> 3 more camps works well. Routes are so fluid in the new jungle because all the camps have exactly the same experience value and roughly the same gold value that I imagine routes will be a hot topic for a while. The key is that 6 camps is the magic number for buying boots+machete upgrade on your first back. As for Blue, screw it. Least useful jungle buff NA. Thanks for the info, got this replied saved for this week :D. I was thinking of staying with the aoe smite upgrade at first as it seems the safest one to get used to the new jungle. Is this a bad idea?
Just don't get too reliant on it. You're going to want some of the more aggressive options before long.
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Has anyone with PTR experimented with laners taking smite?
It seems like there could be some potential there with smite as a combat skill and using the buffs for ward clears etc.
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I didn't actively test that, but it was on my mind. It depends on whether entering lane at level 2 is worth having a non-combat summoner spell until you can afford to spend an item slot and 750g on it later.
It might make sense for a 1v2 lane that has no hope of a normal laning phase anyway, or possibly on a support.
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seuss or anyone else,
do you know how wukong fares in the new jungle? his first clear is pretty bad in the current jungle, im worried how the new jungle will treat him.
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He's slow and unsafe.
He might fare better with a strong leash at Red, but otherwise you're going to have to back after your first three camps (whatever they are) in order to heal up and upgrade Machete.
This is with full on clever use of W tanking and everything. 
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On November 18 2014 01:17 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2014 00:00 Seuss wrote:On November 17 2014 23:32 Numy wrote:On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.
Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past. Got any starting tips? - Practice in a custom game first, and second.
- Make rune/mastery choices based purely on what will help you clear the jungle quicker and safer.
- Start Red if your team is giving you a leash, or if you're fairly certain you won't be invaded. Otherwise pick a small camp according to your needs.
That's the quick and dirty. Here's some more in depth stuff: + Show Spoiler +The new jungle is very S1-like, and by virtue of that optimizing the safety and speed of your first clear takes precedence over other considerations. Not all junglers need to be completely optimized for clearing, but it's far, far easier to start there and dial back than the other way around. For example, the Sejuani setup I ended up using was Full AD Quints/Marks and Armor Seals/Glyphs with these masteries: http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/#9L4Gc5z0.IqCjYC.6923P.0A fact that I cant stress enough is that buff camps yield the same experience and roughly the same gold as any other camp. Prior to S5 the damage done by stealing a buff camp was brutal primarily because of the lost experience and gold. In the new jungle if your jungler is fine without that buff it's literally no worse than losing a small camp. As such, if you don't need Blue buff to clear effectively there's little reason to rush it. You can even pass it off to your mid lane on your first clear without having much effect at all (so long as you take the small minions you'll have enough gold for boots + Machete upgrade on your first back). In most cases you'll want to start or quickly take your Red buff because it goes a long way toward sustaining you as you clear. If you're on a jungler who simply doesn't need the extra sustain you can safely ignore it, but most junglers are going to want their Red ASAP. On November 17 2014 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.
Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past. Frog(smite) -> doubles/wolves -> red(smite) -> Blue -> wolves/gank work pretty well though on a lot of champions. On November 17 2014 23:55 Celial wrote:
Oddone says Buff, 2 camps, buff, 4 camps is first full clear That has a big window of the jungler just not doing anything though. and if you start red, a counter jungler on blue can go red -> your blue and split the map top/bottom Any combination of a camp that helps you clear -> a camp that doesn't -> Red -> 3 more camps works well. Routes are so fluid in the new jungle because all the camps have exactly the same experience value and roughly the same gold value that I imagine routes will be a hot topic for a while. The key is that 6 camps is the magic number for buying boots+machete upgrade on your first back. As for Blue, screw it. Least useful jungle buff NA. Thanks for the info, got this replied saved for this week :D. I was thinking of staying with the aoe smite upgrade at first as it seems the safest one to get used to the new jungle. Is this a bad idea?
The bw player in me kind of feels the opposite, build the least well got clearing, then dial it up, then you know exactly what point it feels maximized.
Like, if I wanted to know what I had to do to defend an early ask in, I wouldn't be first building a crap load of lings, I'd be seeing if I could get away with like six lings, a sunken, and still powering drones. If that doesn't work, build 8 lings and a sunken. If that doesn't work then try with 6 lings and 2 sunkens.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Hma3QvS.png)
...
Look at that Twitch Chat lol
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On November 18 2014 06:48 JSH wrote:... Look at that Twitch Chat lol
Apparently this is what I need to do to get viewers....
Sigh. Get my bunny ears
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United States47024 Posts
That stuff probably comes after you get to Challenger first.
EDIT: or a sex change.
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I took a quick glance at the picture and I didn't realize it was a dude
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On November 18 2014 04:10 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2014 01:17 Numy wrote:On November 18 2014 00:00 Seuss wrote:On November 17 2014 23:32 Numy wrote:On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.
Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past. Got any starting tips? - Practice in a custom game first, and second.
- Make rune/mastery choices based purely on what will help you clear the jungle quicker and safer.
- Start Red if your team is giving you a leash, or if you're fairly certain you won't be invaded. Otherwise pick a small camp according to your needs.
That's the quick and dirty. Here's some more in depth stuff: + Show Spoiler +The new jungle is very S1-like, and by virtue of that optimizing the safety and speed of your first clear takes precedence over other considerations. Not all junglers need to be completely optimized for clearing, but it's far, far easier to start there and dial back than the other way around. For example, the Sejuani setup I ended up using was Full AD Quints/Marks and Armor Seals/Glyphs with these masteries: http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/#9L4Gc5z0.IqCjYC.6923P.0A fact that I cant stress enough is that buff camps yield the same experience and roughly the same gold as any other camp. Prior to S5 the damage done by stealing a buff camp was brutal primarily because of the lost experience and gold. In the new jungle if your jungler is fine without that buff it's literally no worse than losing a small camp. As such, if you don't need Blue buff to clear effectively there's little reason to rush it. You can even pass it off to your mid lane on your first clear without having much effect at all (so long as you take the small minions you'll have enough gold for boots + Machete upgrade on your first back). In most cases you'll want to start or quickly take your Red buff because it goes a long way toward sustaining you as you clear. If you're on a jungler who simply doesn't need the extra sustain you can safely ignore it, but most junglers are going to want their Red ASAP. On November 17 2014 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.
Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past. Frog(smite) -> doubles/wolves -> red(smite) -> Blue -> wolves/gank work pretty well though on a lot of champions. On November 17 2014 23:55 Celial wrote:
Oddone says Buff, 2 camps, buff, 4 camps is first full clear That has a big window of the jungler just not doing anything though. and if you start red, a counter jungler on blue can go red -> your blue and split the map top/bottom Any combination of a camp that helps you clear -> a camp that doesn't -> Red -> 3 more camps works well. Routes are so fluid in the new jungle because all the camps have exactly the same experience value and roughly the same gold value that I imagine routes will be a hot topic for a while. The key is that 6 camps is the magic number for buying boots+machete upgrade on your first back. As for Blue, screw it. Least useful jungle buff NA. Thanks for the info, got this replied saved for this week :D. I was thinking of staying with the aoe smite upgrade at first as it seems the safest one to get used to the new jungle. Is this a bad idea? The bw player in me kind of feels the opposite, build the least well got clearing, then dial it up, then you know exactly what point it feels maximized. Like, if I wanted to know what I had to do to defend an early ask in, I wouldn't be first building a crap load of lings, I'd be seeing if I could get away with like six lings, a sunken, and still powering drones. If that doesn't work, build 8 lings and a sunken. If that doesn't work then try with 6 lings and 2 sunkens.
Ahh but this is backwards. In BW every piece of combat unit you bought early means you're short some production unit.
But in the jungle your clear speed IS the production. A slower less safe clear doesn't imply that you're stronger later on, the opposite it implies you're weaker.
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On November 18 2014 07:26 Nos- wrote:
I took a quick glance at the picture and I didn't realize it was a dude
A S I A N G E N E S
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On November 18 2014 07:35 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2014 04:10 iCanada wrote:On November 18 2014 01:17 Numy wrote:On November 18 2014 00:00 Seuss wrote:On November 17 2014 23:32 Numy wrote:On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.
Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past. Got any starting tips? - Practice in a custom game first, and second.
- Make rune/mastery choices based purely on what will help you clear the jungle quicker and safer.
- Start Red if your team is giving you a leash, or if you're fairly certain you won't be invaded. Otherwise pick a small camp according to your needs.
That's the quick and dirty. Here's some more in depth stuff: + Show Spoiler +The new jungle is very S1-like, and by virtue of that optimizing the safety and speed of your first clear takes precedence over other considerations. Not all junglers need to be completely optimized for clearing, but it's far, far easier to start there and dial back than the other way around. For example, the Sejuani setup I ended up using was Full AD Quints/Marks and Armor Seals/Glyphs with these masteries: http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/#9L4Gc5z0.IqCjYC.6923P.0A fact that I cant stress enough is that buff camps yield the same experience and roughly the same gold as any other camp. Prior to S5 the damage done by stealing a buff camp was brutal primarily because of the lost experience and gold. In the new jungle if your jungler is fine without that buff it's literally no worse than losing a small camp. As such, if you don't need Blue buff to clear effectively there's little reason to rush it. You can even pass it off to your mid lane on your first clear without having much effect at all (so long as you take the small minions you'll have enough gold for boots + Machete upgrade on your first back). In most cases you'll want to start or quickly take your Red buff because it goes a long way toward sustaining you as you clear. If you're on a jungler who simply doesn't need the extra sustain you can safely ignore it, but most junglers are going to want their Red ASAP. On November 17 2014 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.
Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past. Frog(smite) -> doubles/wolves -> red(smite) -> Blue -> wolves/gank work pretty well though on a lot of champions. On November 17 2014 23:55 Celial wrote:
Oddone says Buff, 2 camps, buff, 4 camps is first full clear That has a big window of the jungler just not doing anything though. and if you start red, a counter jungler on blue can go red -> your blue and split the map top/bottom Any combination of a camp that helps you clear -> a camp that doesn't -> Red -> 3 more camps works well. Routes are so fluid in the new jungle because all the camps have exactly the same experience value and roughly the same gold value that I imagine routes will be a hot topic for a while. The key is that 6 camps is the magic number for buying boots+machete upgrade on your first back. As for Blue, screw it. Least useful jungle buff NA. Thanks for the info, got this replied saved for this week :D. I was thinking of staying with the aoe smite upgrade at first as it seems the safest one to get used to the new jungle. Is this a bad idea? The bw player in me kind of feels the opposite, build the least well got clearing, then dial it up, then you know exactly what point it feels maximized. Like, if I wanted to know what I had to do to defend an early ask in, I wouldn't be first building a crap load of lings, I'd be seeing if I could get away with like six lings, a sunken, and still powering drones. If that doesn't work, build 8 lings and a sunken. If that doesn't work then try with 6 lings and 2 sunkens. Ahh but this is backwards. In BW every piece of combat unit you bought early means you're short some production unit. But in the jungle your clear speed IS the production. A slower less safe clear doesn't imply that you're stronger later on, the opposite it implies you're weaker.
Ah, yeah I suppose you're correct.
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On November 18 2014 08:00 krndandaman wrote:
boxbox is the jamal crawford of league to me. If I could play riven like him I would play it every game as well. can't animation cancel on riven for the life of me. sigh and I was able to muta vs scourge on bw
this might be the most off-the-wall analogy i've ever seen someone make without even attempting an explanation. does jamal crawford make a bunch of fake accounts and spam r/NBA with highlight clips every time he makes a shot or something?
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EPT
