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[Patch 4.19] Singed Reborn General Discussion - Page 46

Forum Index > LoL General
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PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
November 17 2014 15:18 GMT
#901
On November 18 2014 00:00 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2014 23:32 Numy wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.

Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past.


Got any starting tips?


  • Practice in a custom game first, and second.
  • Make rune/mastery choices based purely on what will help you clear the jungle quicker and safer.
  • Start Red if your team is giving you a leash, or if you're fairly certain you won't be invaded. Otherwise pick a small camp according to your needs.


That's the quick and dirty. Here's some more in depth stuff:

+ Show Spoiler +

The new jungle is very S1-like, and by virtue of that optimizing the safety and speed of your first clear takes precedence over other considerations. Not all junglers need to be completely optimized for clearing, but it's far, far easier to start there and dial back than the other way around.

For example, the Sejuani setup I ended up using was Full AD Quints/Marks and Armor Seals/Glyphs with these masteries: http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/#9L4Gc5z0.IqCjYC.6923P.0


A fact that I cant stress enough is that buff camps yield the same experience and roughly the same gold as any other camp. Prior to S5 the damage done by stealing a buff camp was brutal primarily because of the lost experience and gold. In the new jungle if your jungler is fine without that buff it's literally no worse than losing a small camp.

As such, if you don't need Blue buff to clear effectively there's little reason to rush it. You can even pass it off to your mid lane on your first clear without having much effect at all (so long as you take the small minions you'll have enough gold for boots + Machete upgrade on your first back).

In most cases you'll want to start or quickly take your Red buff because it goes a long way toward sustaining you as you clear. If you're on a jungler who simply doesn't need the extra sustain you can safely ignore it, but most junglers are going to want their Red ASAP.


Show nested quote +
On November 17 2014 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.

Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past.

Frog(smite) -> doubles/wolves -> red(smite) -> Blue -> wolves/gank work pretty well though on a lot of champions.

On November 17 2014 23:55 Celial wrote:
Oddone says Buff, 2 camps, buff, 4 camps is first full clear

That has a big window of the jungler just not doing anything though. and if you start red, a counter jungler on blue can go red -> your blue and split the map top/bottom


Any combination of a camp that helps you clear -> a camp that doesn't -> Red -> 3 more camps works well. Routes are so fluid in the new jungle because all the camps have exactly the same experience value and roughly the same gold value that I imagine routes will be a hot topic for a while. The key is that 6 camps is the magic number for buying boots+machete upgrade on your first back.


As for Blue, screw it. Least useful jungle buff NA.

Most of the time the red -> blue transition is just to get you on that side of the map and to manage your timers more than anything. no reason to take a small camp right before a gank with the longer timers when you can take a buff and guarantee you have that small camp up as a fallback.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
November 17 2014 16:04 GMT
#902
On November 18 2014 00:18 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2014 00:00 Seuss wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:32 Numy wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.

Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past.


Got any starting tips?


  • Practice in a custom game first, and second.
  • Make rune/mastery choices based purely on what will help you clear the jungle quicker and safer.
  • Start Red if your team is giving you a leash, or if you're fairly certain you won't be invaded. Otherwise pick a small camp according to your needs.


That's the quick and dirty. Here's some more in depth stuff:

+ Show Spoiler +

The new jungle is very S1-like, and by virtue of that optimizing the safety and speed of your first clear takes precedence over other considerations. Not all junglers need to be completely optimized for clearing, but it's far, far easier to start there and dial back than the other way around.

For example, the Sejuani setup I ended up using was Full AD Quints/Marks and Armor Seals/Glyphs with these masteries: http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/#9L4Gc5z0.IqCjYC.6923P.0


A fact that I cant stress enough is that buff camps yield the same experience and roughly the same gold as any other camp. Prior to S5 the damage done by stealing a buff camp was brutal primarily because of the lost experience and gold. In the new jungle if your jungler is fine without that buff it's literally no worse than losing a small camp.

As such, if you don't need Blue buff to clear effectively there's little reason to rush it. You can even pass it off to your mid lane on your first clear without having much effect at all (so long as you take the small minions you'll have enough gold for boots + Machete upgrade on your first back).

In most cases you'll want to start or quickly take your Red buff because it goes a long way toward sustaining you as you clear. If you're on a jungler who simply doesn't need the extra sustain you can safely ignore it, but most junglers are going to want their Red ASAP.


On November 17 2014 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.

Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past.

Frog(smite) -> doubles/wolves -> red(smite) -> Blue -> wolves/gank work pretty well though on a lot of champions.

On November 17 2014 23:55 Celial wrote:
Oddone says Buff, 2 camps, buff, 4 camps is first full clear

That has a big window of the jungler just not doing anything though. and if you start red, a counter jungler on blue can go red -> your blue and split the map top/bottom


Any combination of a camp that helps you clear -> a camp that doesn't -> Red -> 3 more camps works well. Routes are so fluid in the new jungle because all the camps have exactly the same experience value and roughly the same gold value that I imagine routes will be a hot topic for a while. The key is that 6 camps is the magic number for buying boots+machete upgrade on your first back.


As for Blue, screw it. Least useful jungle buff NA.

Most of the time the red -> blue transition is just to get you on that side of the map and to manage your timers more than anything. no reason to take a small camp right before a gank with the longer timers when you can take a buff and guarantee you have that small camp up as a fallback.


Historically speaking the Buff->Buff transition has been in place to secure the bulk of your jungle experience and gold plus your vital ganking/clearing buffs as quickly as possible. Timing/map considerations were strictly secondary.

In the new jungle buff camps are glorified small camps.

I can't stress the bolded point enough. That, more than even the upped jungle difficulty, is going to be the hardest adjustment for experienced junglers. We're so very, very used to being extremely focused on Blue and Red that it's going to be hard to acknowledge how unimportant they actually are.

Like seriously. I'd never bother to counter-jungle an enemy's blue buff unless their mid was extremely blue reliant. It's just not worth it now. even without Raptors as an alternative target.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
November 17 2014 16:14 GMT
#903
On November 18 2014 01:04 Seuss wrote:

Historically speaking the Buff->Buff transition has been in place to secure the bulk of your jungle experience and gold plus your vital ganking/clearing buffs as quickly as possible. Timing/map considerations were strictly secondary.

In the new jungle buff camps are glorified small camps.

I can't stress the bolded point enough. That, more than even the upped jungle difficulty, is going to be the hardest adjustment for experienced junglers. We're so very, very used to being extremely focused on Blue and Red that it's going to be hard to acknowledge how unimportant they actually are.

Like seriously. I'd never bother to counter-jungle an enemy's blue buff unless their mid was extremely blue reliant. It's just not worth it now. even without Raptors as an alternative target.

K but i was talking about in my frog start route. the reason you went from red-> blue was because either wolves was up for power farming right after, or taking blue managed the respawn timers better than taking a small camp because if a gank gets shut down right away, you'd be forced to go back to blue post failed gank, which is a little slower, but also lowers your options on where to actually travel. if you take blue prior to the gank, and it fails and you need to go farm, you can go to either side of the jungle, rather than just blue-side.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
November 17 2014 16:17 GMT
#904
On November 18 2014 00:00 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2014 23:32 Numy wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.

Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past.


Got any starting tips?


  • Practice in a custom game first, and second.
  • Make rune/mastery choices based purely on what will help you clear the jungle quicker and safer.
  • Start Red if your team is giving you a leash, or if you're fairly certain you won't be invaded. Otherwise pick a small camp according to your needs.


That's the quick and dirty. Here's some more in depth stuff:

+ Show Spoiler +

The new jungle is very S1-like, and by virtue of that optimizing the safety and speed of your first clear takes precedence over other considerations. Not all junglers need to be completely optimized for clearing, but it's far, far easier to start there and dial back than the other way around.

For example, the Sejuani setup I ended up using was Full AD Quints/Marks and Armor Seals/Glyphs with these masteries: http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/#9L4Gc5z0.IqCjYC.6923P.0


A fact that I cant stress enough is that buff camps yield the same experience and roughly the same gold as any other camp. Prior to S5 the damage done by stealing a buff camp was brutal primarily because of the lost experience and gold. In the new jungle if your jungler is fine without that buff it's literally no worse than losing a small camp.

As such, if you don't need Blue buff to clear effectively there's little reason to rush it. You can even pass it off to your mid lane on your first clear without having much effect at all (so long as you take the small minions you'll have enough gold for boots + Machete upgrade on your first back).

In most cases you'll want to start or quickly take your Red buff because it goes a long way toward sustaining you as you clear. If you're on a jungler who simply doesn't need the extra sustain you can safely ignore it, but most junglers are going to want their Red ASAP.


Show nested quote +
On November 17 2014 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.

Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past.

Frog(smite) -> doubles/wolves -> red(smite) -> Blue -> wolves/gank work pretty well though on a lot of champions.

On November 17 2014 23:55 Celial wrote:
Oddone says Buff, 2 camps, buff, 4 camps is first full clear

That has a big window of the jungler just not doing anything though. and if you start red, a counter jungler on blue can go red -> your blue and split the map top/bottom


Any combination of a camp that helps you clear -> a camp that doesn't -> Red -> 3 more camps works well. Routes are so fluid in the new jungle because all the camps have exactly the same experience value and roughly the same gold value that I imagine routes will be a hot topic for a while. The key is that 6 camps is the magic number for buying boots+machete upgrade on your first back.


As for Blue, screw it. Least useful jungle buff NA.


Thanks for the info, got this replied saved for this week :D. I was thinking of staying with the aoe smite upgrade at first as it seems the safest one to get used to the new jungle. Is this a bad idea?
DrunkenOne
Profile Joined August 2012
United States302 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-17 17:05:57
November 17 2014 16:54 GMT
#905
Wasn't there initially a new build path for essence reaver so it had mana regen during the buildup? Don't see it in this preseason for dummies guide
Yarr?
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-17 17:11:37
November 17 2014 17:10 GMT
#906
On November 18 2014 01:14 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2014 01:04 Seuss wrote:

Historically speaking the Buff->Buff transition has been in place to secure the bulk of your jungle experience and gold plus your vital ganking/clearing buffs as quickly as possible. Timing/map considerations were strictly secondary.

In the new jungle buff camps are glorified small camps.

I can't stress the bolded point enough. That, more than even the upped jungle difficulty, is going to be the hardest adjustment for experienced junglers. We're so very, very used to being extremely focused on Blue and Red that it's going to be hard to acknowledge how unimportant they actually are.

Like seriously. I'd never bother to counter-jungle an enemy's blue buff unless their mid was extremely blue reliant. It's just not worth it now. even without Raptors as an alternative target.

K but i was talking about in my frog start route. the reason you went from red-> blue was because either wolves was up for power farming right after, or taking blue managed the respawn timers better than taking a small camp because if a gank gets shut down right away, you'd be forced to go back to blue post failed gank, which is a little slower, but also lowers your options on where to actually travel. if you take blue prior to the gank, and it fails and you need to go farm, you can go to either side of the jungle, rather than just blue-side.


Which side of the jungle you return to is only valuable insofar as it relates to things outside of the jungle, in which case one small camp is sufficient. Unless your gank was extremely quick the other will be respawning shortly anyway, and you can always gnab a crab if whatever reason you chose that side in the first place hasn't materialized. If all you want to do is farm which side you pick is almost completely irrelevant.

So basically you're plotting a route with significant inefficiencies (e.g. Frog -> Golems, Red -> Blue) in order to optimize something that shouldn't be a point of optimization anyway.

On November 18 2014 01:17 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2014 00:00 Seuss wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:32 Numy wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.

Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past.


Got any starting tips?


  • Practice in a custom game first, and second.
  • Make rune/mastery choices based purely on what will help you clear the jungle quicker and safer.
  • Start Red if your team is giving you a leash, or if you're fairly certain you won't be invaded. Otherwise pick a small camp according to your needs.


That's the quick and dirty. Here's some more in depth stuff:

+ Show Spoiler +

The new jungle is very S1-like, and by virtue of that optimizing the safety and speed of your first clear takes precedence over other considerations. Not all junglers need to be completely optimized for clearing, but it's far, far easier to start there and dial back than the other way around.

For example, the Sejuani setup I ended up using was Full AD Quints/Marks and Armor Seals/Glyphs with these masteries: http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/#9L4Gc5z0.IqCjYC.6923P.0


A fact that I cant stress enough is that buff camps yield the same experience and roughly the same gold as any other camp. Prior to S5 the damage done by stealing a buff camp was brutal primarily because of the lost experience and gold. In the new jungle if your jungler is fine without that buff it's literally no worse than losing a small camp.

As such, if you don't need Blue buff to clear effectively there's little reason to rush it. You can even pass it off to your mid lane on your first clear without having much effect at all (so long as you take the small minions you'll have enough gold for boots + Machete upgrade on your first back).

In most cases you'll want to start or quickly take your Red buff because it goes a long way toward sustaining you as you clear. If you're on a jungler who simply doesn't need the extra sustain you can safely ignore it, but most junglers are going to want their Red ASAP.


On November 17 2014 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.

Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past.

Frog(smite) -> doubles/wolves -> red(smite) -> Blue -> wolves/gank work pretty well though on a lot of champions.

On November 17 2014 23:55 Celial wrote:
Oddone says Buff, 2 camps, buff, 4 camps is first full clear

That has a big window of the jungler just not doing anything though. and if you start red, a counter jungler on blue can go red -> your blue and split the map top/bottom


Any combination of a camp that helps you clear -> a camp that doesn't -> Red -> 3 more camps works well. Routes are so fluid in the new jungle because all the camps have exactly the same experience value and roughly the same gold value that I imagine routes will be a hot topic for a while. The key is that 6 camps is the magic number for buying boots+machete upgrade on your first back.


As for Blue, screw it. Least useful jungle buff NA.


Thanks for the info, got this replied saved for this week :D. I was thinking of staying with the aoe smite upgrade at first as it seems the safest one to get used to the new jungle. Is this a bad idea?


Just don't get too reliant on it. You're going to want some of the more aggressive options before long.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
YokaY
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States108 Posts
November 17 2014 17:34 GMT
#907
Has anyone with PTR experimented with laners taking smite?

It seems like there could be some potential there with smite as a combat skill and using the buffs for ward clears etc.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
November 17 2014 17:42 GMT
#908
I didn't actively test that, but it was on my mind. It depends on whether entering lane at level 2 is worth having a non-combat summoner spell until you can afford to spend an item slot and 750g on it later.

It might make sense for a 1v2 lane that has no hope of a normal laning phase anyway, or possibly on a support.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Vaporized
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1471 Posts
November 17 2014 18:39 GMT
#909
seuss or anyone else,

do you know how wukong fares in the new jungle? his first clear is pretty bad in the current jungle, im worried how the new jungle will treat him.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
November 17 2014 19:09 GMT
#910
He's slow and unsafe.

He might fare better with a strong leash at Red, but otherwise you're going to have to back after your first three camps (whatever they are) in order to heal up and upgrade Machete.

This is with full on clever use of W tanking and everything.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-17 19:16:42
November 17 2014 19:10 GMT
#911
On November 18 2014 01:17 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2014 00:00 Seuss wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:32 Numy wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.

Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past.


Got any starting tips?


  • Practice in a custom game first, and second.
  • Make rune/mastery choices based purely on what will help you clear the jungle quicker and safer.
  • Start Red if your team is giving you a leash, or if you're fairly certain you won't be invaded. Otherwise pick a small camp according to your needs.


That's the quick and dirty. Here's some more in depth stuff:

+ Show Spoiler +

The new jungle is very S1-like, and by virtue of that optimizing the safety and speed of your first clear takes precedence over other considerations. Not all junglers need to be completely optimized for clearing, but it's far, far easier to start there and dial back than the other way around.

For example, the Sejuani setup I ended up using was Full AD Quints/Marks and Armor Seals/Glyphs with these masteries: http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/#9L4Gc5z0.IqCjYC.6923P.0


A fact that I cant stress enough is that buff camps yield the same experience and roughly the same gold as any other camp. Prior to S5 the damage done by stealing a buff camp was brutal primarily because of the lost experience and gold. In the new jungle if your jungler is fine without that buff it's literally no worse than losing a small camp.

As such, if you don't need Blue buff to clear effectively there's little reason to rush it. You can even pass it off to your mid lane on your first clear without having much effect at all (so long as you take the small minions you'll have enough gold for boots + Machete upgrade on your first back).

In most cases you'll want to start or quickly take your Red buff because it goes a long way toward sustaining you as you clear. If you're on a jungler who simply doesn't need the extra sustain you can safely ignore it, but most junglers are going to want their Red ASAP.


On November 17 2014 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.

Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past.

Frog(smite) -> doubles/wolves -> red(smite) -> Blue -> wolves/gank work pretty well though on a lot of champions.

On November 17 2014 23:55 Celial wrote:
Oddone says Buff, 2 camps, buff, 4 camps is first full clear

That has a big window of the jungler just not doing anything though. and if you start red, a counter jungler on blue can go red -> your blue and split the map top/bottom


Any combination of a camp that helps you clear -> a camp that doesn't -> Red -> 3 more camps works well. Routes are so fluid in the new jungle because all the camps have exactly the same experience value and roughly the same gold value that I imagine routes will be a hot topic for a while. The key is that 6 camps is the magic number for buying boots+machete upgrade on your first back.


As for Blue, screw it. Least useful jungle buff NA.


Thanks for the info, got this replied saved for this week :D. I was thinking of staying with the aoe smite upgrade at first as it seems the safest one to get used to the new jungle. Is this a bad idea?


The bw player in me kind of feels the opposite, build the least well got clearing, then dial it up, then you know exactly what point it feels maximized.

Like, if I wanted to know what I had to do to defend an early ask in, I wouldn't be first building a crap load of lings, I'd be seeing if I could get away with like six lings, a sunken, and still powering drones. If that doesn't work, build 8 lings and a sunken. If that doesn't work then try with 6 lings and 2 sunkens.
JSH
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States4109 Posts
November 17 2014 21:48 GMT
#912
[image loading]

...

Look at that Twitch Chat lol
"It's called a miracle because it doesn't happen" - Just like my chances of reaching C- on ICCUP
jaybrundage
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3921 Posts
November 17 2014 21:51 GMT
#913
On November 18 2014 06:48 JSH wrote:
[image loading]

...

Look at that Twitch Chat lol

Apparently this is what I need to do to get viewers....

Sigh. Get my bunny ears
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-17 22:08:26
November 17 2014 22:07 GMT
#914
That stuff probably comes after you get to Challenger first.

EDIT: or a sex change.
Moderator
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
November 17 2014 22:26 GMT
#915
I took a quick glance at the picture and I didn't realize it was a dude
Bronze player stuck in platinum
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
November 17 2014 22:35 GMT
#916
On November 18 2014 04:10 iCanada wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2014 01:17 Numy wrote:
On November 18 2014 00:00 Seuss wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:32 Numy wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.

Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past.


Got any starting tips?


  • Practice in a custom game first, and second.
  • Make rune/mastery choices based purely on what will help you clear the jungle quicker and safer.
  • Start Red if your team is giving you a leash, or if you're fairly certain you won't be invaded. Otherwise pick a small camp according to your needs.


That's the quick and dirty. Here's some more in depth stuff:

+ Show Spoiler +

The new jungle is very S1-like, and by virtue of that optimizing the safety and speed of your first clear takes precedence over other considerations. Not all junglers need to be completely optimized for clearing, but it's far, far easier to start there and dial back than the other way around.

For example, the Sejuani setup I ended up using was Full AD Quints/Marks and Armor Seals/Glyphs with these masteries: http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/#9L4Gc5z0.IqCjYC.6923P.0


A fact that I cant stress enough is that buff camps yield the same experience and roughly the same gold as any other camp. Prior to S5 the damage done by stealing a buff camp was brutal primarily because of the lost experience and gold. In the new jungle if your jungler is fine without that buff it's literally no worse than losing a small camp.

As such, if you don't need Blue buff to clear effectively there's little reason to rush it. You can even pass it off to your mid lane on your first clear without having much effect at all (so long as you take the small minions you'll have enough gold for boots + Machete upgrade on your first back).

In most cases you'll want to start or quickly take your Red buff because it goes a long way toward sustaining you as you clear. If you're on a jungler who simply doesn't need the extra sustain you can safely ignore it, but most junglers are going to want their Red ASAP.


On November 17 2014 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.

Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past.

Frog(smite) -> doubles/wolves -> red(smite) -> Blue -> wolves/gank work pretty well though on a lot of champions.

On November 17 2014 23:55 Celial wrote:
Oddone says Buff, 2 camps, buff, 4 camps is first full clear

That has a big window of the jungler just not doing anything though. and if you start red, a counter jungler on blue can go red -> your blue and split the map top/bottom


Any combination of a camp that helps you clear -> a camp that doesn't -> Red -> 3 more camps works well. Routes are so fluid in the new jungle because all the camps have exactly the same experience value and roughly the same gold value that I imagine routes will be a hot topic for a while. The key is that 6 camps is the magic number for buying boots+machete upgrade on your first back.


As for Blue, screw it. Least useful jungle buff NA.


Thanks for the info, got this replied saved for this week :D. I was thinking of staying with the aoe smite upgrade at first as it seems the safest one to get used to the new jungle. Is this a bad idea?


The bw player in me kind of feels the opposite, build the least well got clearing, then dial it up, then you know exactly what point it feels maximized.

Like, if I wanted to know what I had to do to defend an early ask in, I wouldn't be first building a crap load of lings, I'd be seeing if I could get away with like six lings, a sunken, and still powering drones. If that doesn't work, build 8 lings and a sunken. If that doesn't work then try with 6 lings and 2 sunkens.

Ahh but this is backwards. In BW every piece of combat unit you bought early means you're short some production unit.

But in the jungle your clear speed IS the production. A slower less safe clear doesn't imply that you're stronger later on, the opposite it implies you're weaker.
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
November 17 2014 22:48 GMT
#917
On November 18 2014 07:26 Nos- wrote:
I took a quick glance at the picture and I didn't realize it was a dude

A S I A N G E N E S
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
November 17 2014 22:55 GMT
#918
On November 18 2014 07:35 Goumindong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2014 04:10 iCanada wrote:
On November 18 2014 01:17 Numy wrote:
On November 18 2014 00:00 Seuss wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:32 Numy wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.

Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past.


Got any starting tips?


  • Practice in a custom game first, and second.
  • Make rune/mastery choices based purely on what will help you clear the jungle quicker and safer.
  • Start Red if your team is giving you a leash, or if you're fairly certain you won't be invaded. Otherwise pick a small camp according to your needs.


That's the quick and dirty. Here's some more in depth stuff:

+ Show Spoiler +

The new jungle is very S1-like, and by virtue of that optimizing the safety and speed of your first clear takes precedence over other considerations. Not all junglers need to be completely optimized for clearing, but it's far, far easier to start there and dial back than the other way around.

For example, the Sejuani setup I ended up using was Full AD Quints/Marks and Armor Seals/Glyphs with these masteries: http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/#9L4Gc5z0.IqCjYC.6923P.0


A fact that I cant stress enough is that buff camps yield the same experience and roughly the same gold as any other camp. Prior to S5 the damage done by stealing a buff camp was brutal primarily because of the lost experience and gold. In the new jungle if your jungler is fine without that buff it's literally no worse than losing a small camp.

As such, if you don't need Blue buff to clear effectively there's little reason to rush it. You can even pass it off to your mid lane on your first clear without having much effect at all (so long as you take the small minions you'll have enough gold for boots + Machete upgrade on your first back).

In most cases you'll want to start or quickly take your Red buff because it goes a long way toward sustaining you as you clear. If you're on a jungler who simply doesn't need the extra sustain you can safely ignore it, but most junglers are going to want their Red ASAP.


On November 17 2014 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:
On November 17 2014 23:07 Seuss wrote:
This is Monte's healthy reminder to take anything anyone says about the new jungle with a healthy truckload of salt because nobody, not even pro players, is going to understand it right out of the gate.

Case in point, Diana/Zac are by far not the only junglers who can do a safe full clear out of the gate, and buff -> buff is probably a thing of the past.

Frog(smite) -> doubles/wolves -> red(smite) -> Blue -> wolves/gank work pretty well though on a lot of champions.

On November 17 2014 23:55 Celial wrote:
Oddone says Buff, 2 camps, buff, 4 camps is first full clear

That has a big window of the jungler just not doing anything though. and if you start red, a counter jungler on blue can go red -> your blue and split the map top/bottom


Any combination of a camp that helps you clear -> a camp that doesn't -> Red -> 3 more camps works well. Routes are so fluid in the new jungle because all the camps have exactly the same experience value and roughly the same gold value that I imagine routes will be a hot topic for a while. The key is that 6 camps is the magic number for buying boots+machete upgrade on your first back.


As for Blue, screw it. Least useful jungle buff NA.


Thanks for the info, got this replied saved for this week :D. I was thinking of staying with the aoe smite upgrade at first as it seems the safest one to get used to the new jungle. Is this a bad idea?


The bw player in me kind of feels the opposite, build the least well got clearing, then dial it up, then you know exactly what point it feels maximized.

Like, if I wanted to know what I had to do to defend an early ask in, I wouldn't be first building a crap load of lings, I'd be seeing if I could get away with like six lings, a sunken, and still powering drones. If that doesn't work, build 8 lings and a sunken. If that doesn't work then try with 6 lings and 2 sunkens.

Ahh but this is backwards. In BW every piece of combat unit you bought early means you're short some production unit.

But in the jungle your clear speed IS the production. A slower less safe clear doesn't imply that you're stronger later on, the opposite it implies you're weaker.


Ah, yeah I suppose you're correct.
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
November 17 2014 23:00 GMT
#919
--- Nuked ---
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
November 17 2014 23:46 GMT
#920
On November 18 2014 08:00 krndandaman wrote:
boxbox is the jamal crawford of league to me. If I could play riven like him I would play it every game as well. can't animation cancel on riven for the life of me. sigh and I was able to muta vs scourge on bw

this might be the most off-the-wall analogy i've ever seen someone make without even attempting an explanation. does jamal crawford make a bunch of fake accounts and spam r/NBA with highlight clips every time he makes a shot or something?
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