EPT[Patch 4.19] Singed Reborn General Discussion - Page 28
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On November 12 2014 07:30 krndandaman wrote: Criticize the correct thing then. I'm all for criticizing Riot for having the tournament during a big transition stage, but what's done is done. The choice is between s4 patch and s5 patch and I am inclined to go with the s5 patch. You can criticize competitive integrity or whatever all you want because that's not what I'm arguing against/for. The point I was making was that if given the choice between the end of season patch and the s5 patch, I think s5 patch is the logical choice out of the choices given at this time. Were it 2 weeks before? Definitely s4 patch. If it was today? Then I'd be more conflicted. But 3 weeks later? Definitely s5 patch. How stupid would it be for these guys to play on s5 patch soloqueue and s4 patch tournament realm for scrims? Also, I have a hard time believing that a team that doesn't deserve to make it into the LCS will make it through because of this. You guys are overreacting. edit: they actually have a bit over a month to practice on the new patch. 3 weeks is the time frame after the last matches played on s4 patch. s5 patch is already on tournament realm. it isn't a perfect solution, but 1 month should be enough practice for a reasonably fair result. On November 11 2014 17:41 red_ wrote: But all of the ranking/seeding/whatever was done on various S4 patches. I think it's retarded. That's all I said, to which you replied with a bunch of shit about adaptation to patches and it being fundamental to LCS success. You said nothing about the timing of PBE/Tourney realm switches, which is why people didn't argue or discuss those things at first either. The only person who isn't criticizing the right thing is you. I never implied anything other than that the decision to split a single tournament onto separate patches, especially one that is the largest change to the game in its history, is retarded. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 12 2014 07:46 red_ wrote: That's all I said, to which you replied with a bunch of shit about adaptation to patches and it being fundamental to LCS success. You said nothing about the timing of PBE/Tourney realm switches, which is why people didn't argue or discuss those things at first either. The only person who isn't criticizing the right thing is you. I never implied anything other than that the decision to split a single tournament onto separate patches, especially one that is the largest change to the game in its history, is retarded. Just let it go man. you'll never get the thread to stay on an original topic for a whole discussion. just let it go. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On November 12 2014 06:32 nafta wrote: How does lucian have more mobility than vayne wat? Realistically in soloq very often you will not get any peel.Being able to handle people 1v1 and being able to get away with focusing tanks unlike caitlyn sure helps a lot.Don't see what is so hard about playing vayne in teamfights lol. You don't HAVE TO jump in and 1v5 everyone. He has a longer range dash on effectively the same CD. He has three abilities with ranges past his auto attack range (Q,W, R), one of which gives him a move speed buff, and one of which allow him to continue to deal damage and be mobile. Vayne is hard to team fight because she has zero abilities which extend her range past auto attack range while also being one of the squishiest and lowest burst AD's (unless you're very proficient with her abilities and positioning) this gives her little leeway for being out of position if she still wants to do damage. Whereas many other carries have either A) Longer range abilities which allow them to deal damage even if auto attacking is too dangerous B) Longer range reposition abilities which allow them more leeway in positioning C) Burst which allows them to more effectively zone enemy damage dealers while still doing damage to the enemy team D) Abilities which deal damage through an enemy team All of which allow other carries more leeway in their positioning in order to be effective edit: People might want to say that Sivir is the lowest ranged AD, but that isn't true. The lowest ranged AD is vayne On November 12 2014 06:41 JonnyLaw wrote: Cait in the hands of a bad player is a terrible terrible thing to witness. For the love of god do not advocate Cait to silver/gold players. Poking while cs'ing and avoiding bad trades against lower range carries is a foreign concept in lane. Having to deal most of your damage from autos without steroids when you feed or just suck at farming means Cait doesn't do anything until Cait's team inevitably loses. Corki, Graves and Lucian are much easier to learn AD. They have good spells. You can cast spells and play clean up once some abilities are burned. Its true that caits laning is not easy to learn. But its not true that her team fight is hard to play, which was what was being discussed. On November 11 2014 18:00 JonnyLaw wrote: In prior seasons it worked like this. The preseason games counts toward your MMR during promos. Basically in promos your current MMR is adjusted towards 1500. If you're bronze/silver it goes up slightly and if you're plat or above it goes down slightly. Of course your success in the ten promotion games determines how far it goes towards the 1500 mark. So, while these games will not impact your starting rank next season at a 1:1 ratio they will affect where you place next season to a degree. To clarify with strictly hypothetical numbers: plat iv = 1500 + 150 + win rate in promos = s5 starting rank diamond i = 1500 + 300 + win rate in promos = starting s5 rank silver 5 = 1500 - 50 + win rate in promos = starting s5 rank 1200. 1500 is about gold 5. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 12 2014 05:30 krndandaman wrote: How would you extend the expansion qualification into s5 then? That's just awkward and doesn't make much sense. I can agree that it would've been better if they finished this expansion tournament before s4 ended, but it's too late for that. What do you mean how? You just do it. You still have like 2+ months before LCS is scheduled to start, and have room to push back LCS if necessary. I don't see why it's awkward. It's not like S5 starts when we get the S5 patch--we get the patch and then a long pre-season, then S5 starts. The pre-season is plenty long enough to finish the qualification and the expansion tournament. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4715 Posts
On November 12 2014 09:19 Goumindong wrote: edit: People might want to say that Sivir is the lowest ranged AD, but that isn't true. The lowest ranged AD is vayne Are you saying this because Vayne can only use her auto's to fight or because you think she actually has the lowest range? Because Vayne has 550 range where as Urgot with 425, Sivir with 500 and Lucian with 500 are the actual lowest three. Also, Vayne is ok to play in teamfights imo, her tumble during her ult is super elusive and makes it very hard to actually pin her down in the chaotic environment of it all. If there is a hard adc to play in teamfights, it's definitely immobile ones like Varus and Jinx. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On November 12 2014 10:26 Uldridge wrote: Are you saying this because Vayne can only use her auto's to fight or because you think she actually has the lowest range? Yes, because abilities are part of your range | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 12 2014 11:24 Goumindong wrote: Yes, because abilities are part of your range then graves is lower range if you are using your spells to their most effective. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On November 12 2014 12:20 PrinceXizor wrote: then graves is lower range if you are using your spells to their most effective. What is the range on Graves R? (and W) | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 12 2014 12:25 Goumindong wrote: What is the range on Graves R? (and W) so you are suggesting that the bulk of graves fighting comes from his ultimate and his ability that doesn't scale with AD? if we're talking about which ADC needs to get closest to be fighting properly, its graves. vayne sure as hell can sit further than auto range, because they WILL be coming at her. period. you don't stand around and ignore vayne, nor do you generally escape her because of her 2000 range passive. when you are playing vayne ideally you rarely get within 500 units, when you are playing graves ideally, you want to be at about 300. in real games there are often exceptions, but graves will generally play much closer to his targets than vayne will. and thats all that matters. EDIT: if your point is: vayne has to stand the closest to deal any damage at all, then yeah. but the point of an adc isn't to just stand there and maybe get some damage in. its to maximize the amount of damage you are dealing in fights. and that requires graves to be up in the mix, while vayne can dance along the outside and do just fine. people don't go around talking about how ashe is such a long range champion because her arrow is global. its because she can maximize her damage from very far away. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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miicah
Australia2470 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35118 Posts
On November 12 2014 13:03 Slusher wrote: so are s5 placements up or are we in pergatory? All ranked is good for from now until reset is to improve MMR. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
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justiceknight
Singapore5741 Posts
On November 12 2014 13:49 padfoota wrote: How the fuck is vayne the easier ADC to teamfight o.o u have to watch alot of Uzi and dlift then play solo q. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On November 12 2014 13:49 padfoota wrote: How the fuck is vayne the easier ADC to teamfight o.o Its not. The answer is Lucian and its not even close. You Culling through the initial, dangerous part of the fight, then auto and spellweave against people whos CDs are on cooldown. Then by the time they can turn on you your dash is back up. Vayne is probably the best for learning how to be a good ADC in teamfights because you have to auto a lot, but have the crutch of a Short CD dash, Condemn, and short stints of invisibility to drop aggro. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On November 12 2014 14:26 cLutZ wrote: Its not. The answer is Lucian and its not even close. You Culling through the initial, dangerous part of the fight, then auto and spellweave against people whos CDs are on cooldown. Then by the time they can turn on you your dash is back up. Vayne is probably the best for learning how to be a good ADC in teamfights because you have to auto a lot, but have the crutch of a Short CD dash, Condemn, and short stints of invisibility to drop aggro. Personal experience if I were to suggest learning ADC is Caitlyn/Lucian having the smoothest learning curve and always relevant, Sivir being carry god in lower tiers if all carry comp (jax top yi jungle etc etc dumb comps, your waveclear makes up for any melee midlaner and your CS is always double the amount of anyone else), Corki being current top ADC all stages but suffers slightly in lane vs burst comps pre 6, Ezreal being fucking Ezreal, and Tristana god tier late game but seriously dont touch her if you dont know how to lane as adc and dont have a decent support. Lucian is probably the most mobile champ as adc while still having crazy burst damage, while Ezreal kites all the time. Even in teamfights. Even when theres nothing to kite hes still kiting. Hes Ezreal. Corki doesnt seem to be getting much love in the western world tho o.o, definetely consider him the current top ADC of soloQ after the Lucian nerfs. Graves is decent laner, decent skirmisher, decent everything, but suffers extremely hard if hes forced to go face to face vs "im just gonna dash into you and delete you champs". He becomes completely irrelevant in teamfights if not properly peeled. But, he still remains one of the strongest mid game ADC bursters that have a decent role to fit. Twitch is...interesting. Hes definitely not your standard AD carry. His most preferred way of playing is constant ganking in between clearing waves. His first back should also consist of picking up the sweeping trinket. In teamfights if I were to compare him to someone else itll be Zed. Yeah sure you can poke and waveclear and stuff but you really dont want the opponent to know your location until shit hits the fan. Thats when you pop out with QR and just wreck everything. If you play too much Khazix I would suggest this guy. Vayne and Draven are a class of their own. They dont really belong in the standard ADC category. They are duelist by heart and style, they can hard carry with sheer brute force or superior skill, but learning them will not make you better as an ADC. They are fundamentally too different from all the other standard ones. They are absolute terrors in the right hands and absolute shit tier in the wrong hands. I would NOT suggest people learning ADC to pick either of these two. They need a certain "flow" to even begin to be handled. You simply cannot play a bunch of Lucian and suddenly do well with draven, unlike Lucian ->Graves. TBH I dont really consider Ezreal to be in the ADC category either. His most stylish build imo is definitely blue build, since all TF builds just makes him a weaker Corki, and if you arent going Sheen with Ezreal you are doing something wrong. With blue build hes maximizing on CDR and poking capabilities while still having ridiculous amounts of damage once muramana comes out. His specialty is playing from behind, and he does it like no one else can. Blue build also turns him into the tankiest ADC, which is fucking weird but whatever. | ||
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