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On November 12 2014 01:01 AlterKot wrote:
Well that depends which team you prefer to see - one that adapts quicker to once-a-year changes that no lcs team has to adapt in 3 weeks, or one that perfected their play on the previous patch? Definitely the latter for me. Also it means that games in general will be messier, there will be more misplays due to unfamiliarity and more cheeses that will either win or lose the game on their own.
I have 0 sympathy for the teams in the expansion tournament. For the teams that failed in up/downs, this is an opportunity to get into the pro scene that traditionally doesn't happen. Normally, they should be waiting an entire split before getting another shot. All the news teams that didn't exist formed purely because of this opportunity.
I am absolutely fine with Riot Darth Vadering this shit, the teams should pray they don't alter it further.
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On November 12 2014 02:34 739 wrote:
yeah I'm a bit afraid, since I got ranked/chat restriction, Rioter told me that they're not sure yet if they're gonna give ranked rewards for people who got restricted, lmao.
Ranked restriction is different to chat. Are you both? Not sure if that means you won't get but atm they just a bit slow in giving so by tomorrow/thursday if you don't have it might mean you won't get
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On November 12 2014 01:45 Alaric wrote:
How is it elegant to drop shields and mysterious lasers (instead of, say, increased tower damage) to tell people "Fuck you and your teamfighting, you're not allowed to tower dive, you'd better just spend your time sieging and slowly whittling the tower down or splitpushing because we don't like you fighting near turrets and because we don't like it you can't have it"?
There's nothing subtle about it, it's hamfisted as fuck.
Increased tower damage is simple, but that doesn't mean it's the best solution or even a particularly effective one.
The problem with simply increasing tower damage is that it doesn't actually accomplish Riot's goals. Riot wants it to be harder to push a T2 tower when it's defended. Simply increasing the tower's damage makes it harder to push all the time (in addition to negative side effects for last-hitting). If Riot doesn't want to do that they need a better solution.
I think the shield solution is elegant because it accomplishes it's goal, is highly discoverable, and motivates better play and strategy. The last of these points is particularly notable. I'm sure you've encountered many pushes where the defending team needed to either assert themselves immediately or give up entirely, but because of hesitation due to inexperience, lack of understanding, or whatever else the defending team simply piddled around and got crushed. Because the T2 shield is contingent upon the tower's shield being intact, if you don't act quickly you'll lose your advantage as a defender and become vulnerable.
This also affects the attacker's strategy. The shield means you can't simply poke at the enemy champions and then roll over the team/turret (unless you're really far ahead), you need to commit to getting the shield down. If you succeed the defender's advantage is gone and you can poke/push with considerably less resistance.
I think Riot is actually accomplish most of their goals elegantly (I obviously have a few issues with some of their jungle changes). If you think Riot's goals in and of themselves are hamfisted then that's something else entirely.
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Morgana has so many fucking skins wow.
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On November 12 2014 02:59 Capped wrote:
Morgana has so many fucking skins wow.
and they are all good and i have them all.
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United States37500 Posts
On November 12 2014 03:06 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 02:59 Capped wrote:
Morgana has so many fucking skins wow. and they are all good and i have them all.
Yeah, it's kinda impressive how many good ones Morg has. None of them are shitty recolors.
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The tower only gives you a shield when a shield that it itself has is down (and it replenishes over time when the tower isn't taking damage I guess)? I guess it's not that bad then, but it's still hamfisting their objectives.
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The tower only gives you the shield if its own shield holds. The tower's shield refreshes if the tower doesn't take any damage for a full minute. So there's a big incentive for the pushing team to commit to getting rid of the shield, and a big incentive for the defending team to commit to stopping them.
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On November 12 2014 03:11 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 03:06 LaNague wrote:On November 12 2014 02:59 Capped wrote:
Morgana has so many fucking skins wow. and they are all good and i have them all. Yeah, it's kinda impressive how many good ones Morg has. None of them are shitty recolors.
Blackthorn is still my favorite, despite no one else using it.
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On November 12 2014 03:21 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 03:11 NeoIllusions wrote:On November 12 2014 03:06 LaNague wrote:On November 12 2014 02:59 Capped wrote:
Morgana has so many fucking skins wow. and they are all good and i have them all. Yeah, it's kinda impressive how many good ones Morg has. None of them are shitty recolors. Blackthorn is still my favorite, despite no one else using it.
I use it.
Got it from a Mystery Skin.
Worth.
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On November 12 2014 03:17 Seuss wrote:
The tower only gives you the shield if its own shield holds. The tower's shield refreshes if the tower doesn't take any damage for a full minute. So there's a big incentive for the pushing team to commit to getting rid of the shield, and a big incentive for the defending team to commit to stopping them.
Minute cooldown seems a bit short, but I guess it depends on how large the shield is.
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On November 12 2014 03:11 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 03:06 LaNague wrote:On November 12 2014 02:59 Capped wrote:
Morgana has so many fucking skins wow. and they are all good and i have them all. Yeah, it's kinda impressive how many good ones Morg has. None of them are shitty recolors.
I think the victorious one is shitty and rushed tbh. Paper wings op.
Will stick to my blade mistress
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You know what skin is the biggest let down? Haunted Zyra
I hope they give it some sort of touch up because there's something off about how it looks
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victorious morgana skin is worth it for the black shield graphics alone imo
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
What? Haunted Zyra is a good skin, come on.
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On November 12 2014 03:36 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 03:17 Seuss wrote:
The tower only gives you the shield if its own shield holds. The tower's shield refreshes if the tower doesn't take any damage for a full minute. So there's a big incentive for the pushing team to commit to getting rid of the shield, and a big incentive for the defending team to commit to stopping them. Minute cooldown seems a bit short, but I guess it depends on how large the shield is.
Literally any damage will reset the timer, so you or a minion just needs to nick the tower every other wave to stop it from regenerating.
I'll check the PBE when I get home for the exact size of the shield, but it's not all that big.
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United States47024 Posts
Honestly, the only reason there's an argument at all is because expansion tournament qualification closed before we got the S5 patch. If the ladder extended a few weeks into the S5 patch (and there's no reason it couldn't), there'd be no complaints from anyone because the entire process would be played on S5 start-to-finish. But because they ended expansion qualification without the S5 changes, you're guaranteed to have some awkward turnover somewhere in the middle, which is where all the argument suddenly comes from.
On November 12 2014 03:49 krndandaman wrote:
You're kidding me if you think that most teams won't figure out the patch in 3 weeks.
I would argue that it's almost never the case that a patch gets figured out before it gets rotated out. It still definitely happens that something is buffed in one patch, but players don't make good on it until 2-3 patches later.
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On November 12 2014 03:49 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 00:44 TheYango wrote:On November 12 2014 00:12 krndandaman wrote:
Despite all this, I'm quite sure that the better prepared/more skilled team will make it into the LCS. Again, if you can't adapt to the changes you're gonna have a bad time in the LCS. The majority if the expansion teams are gonna have a bad time in the LCS regardless, I don't know why you keep using that as an argument, lol. It's not my argument. It's a separate statement that people who are complaining that it will give an unfair advantage to some teams are being dumb. My argument is before that. Show nested quote +On November 12 2014 01:13 Numy wrote:On November 12 2014 00:12 krndandaman wrote:On November 11 2014 20:48 Numy wrote:On November 11 2014 19:41 krndandaman wrote:On November 11 2014 18:29 red_ wrote:On November 11 2014 17:58 krndandaman wrote:On November 11 2014 17:41 red_ wrote:On November 11 2014 17:06 krndandaman wrote:On November 11 2014 16:42 Apex wrote:
Dyrus has survived the hell barring shenanigans.
In other news, apparently the offline matches for Expansion tourney are going to be played with all the preseason changes. Not sure if 3 weeks is adequate time for such a game-changing patch, but... makes sense though seeing how lcs is going to be played with all the changes anyways. i'd rather have a team that might not be so good on this patch but adapted quickly to the new patch then a team who is good on this patch and can't adapt. But all of the ranking/seeding/whatever was done on various S4 patches. I think it's retarded. If you can't adapt and/or play on the patch the LCS is going to be played on, you're going to be shit in the LCS anyways. Being able to adapt is the one of the keys for long term success in professional LoL. There's a difference between adapting from patch to patch within a season, and adapting to the biggest change the game has ever seen when everything that has determined who is playing in this tourney, and all play leading up to it, was done prior to that change. It's retarded. The whole season is going to be played with those changes. It would be retarded to decide who gets into the LCS playing an outdated game. They are going to get 3 weeks of practice anyways and I think that's more than enough time to adapt. What would be retarded is forcing these teams to play on an outdated patch for 3 more weeks (can't even play soloq on old patch) and have them be 3 weeks practice behind other LCS teams once they actually get in. Not like these teams need any more help becoming bottom feeders of the LCS. You realise that logic doesn't make sense as all the current lcs teams are locked based on an outdated game and all the teams in the expansion tournament qualifed on an outdated game Based on that logic there would have to be new qualifiers for the tournament that uses new changes and all the locked lcs teams would need to compete. Changing the game between stages and there is both pros and cons but you can't claim that thinking playing on previous version is retarded. I'd say if you don't give 1-2 months between the changes of stage on this an important stage then you should just keep it on prior patch for both fairness and consistency. Currently it appears they would sacrifice consistency in order to root out any huge outliers in the patch for season proper. It's understandable for the expansion players to be upset at being uses as guinea pigs The current LCS teams are locked in because that is their reward for performing last season. That's an irrelevant analogy that doesn't even work. Yes it's not completely fair that the expansion tournament is played on a very different patch, but there is no perfect solution to this (blame Riot for introducing so many changes, not the tourny rules). It'd be even dumber to play the tournament on a patch that will be irrelevant for S5. Despite all this, I'm quite sure that the better prepared/more skilled team will make it into the LCS. Again, if you can't adapt to the changes you're gonna have a bad time in the LCS. I don't get why you don't see the issue with your statements. You saying the LCS teams are rewarded based on a tournament on an irrelevant patch but the challenger teams can't be rewarded based on a tournament on an irrelevant patch? These teams that are only in said tournament because they finished top in the ladder on an irrelevant patch. There's nothing wrong with them playing the full expansion tournament on an irrelevant patch as that's consistent with how everyone else has qualified up until that point. I'm also against the statement that the more skill team is the one that adapts that fastest. That's an argument about innovation vs refinement. It's entirely possible team at the start of a patch figures something out faster but by the end of the tournament places last as they are inferior to other teams once those teams adapt as well. Adapting is a skill but it's not the only skill that defines a strong team. I think TI2 showed this really well where by the end of the tournament Navi had completely adapted to the new patch and was even outdrafting A but A had a level of refinement that Navi just couldn't overcome regardless of A being slightly behind the patch understanding. The worst part is that they aren't even having the whole expansion tournament on one patch, instead they having the first round of series on this current patch and the next round of series on another. So they changing the patch mid tournament. You're kidding me if you think that most teams won't figure out the patch in 3 weeks. Same shit happens every patch. Teams start to figure things out and everyone tries to refine it until the next patch comes and repeat. This is the life of a LoL progamer. You're acting like these players will have a day with the patch and forced to play the next day. I'm pretty sure most of them are already getting familiar with the new patch on PBE.
I don't really care for the argument about whether patch should be 4.19 or 4.20. The problem I have is that it's inconsistent through the process of the expansion tournament.
I also wanted to point out that the bold statement is way off mark. I know it makes more sense in the context of your post to exaggerate like that, but I don't see how you can think that's true in any way. Three weeks is a REALLY short time. I admit I don't know how much you consider when you say they will "figure out the patch" but I wouldn't ever say that 3 weeks is enough for the amount of changes that are incoming. Just look at how long champion reworks take for anyone to really figure out how to play that champion again. It takes months at most for most pro players to even consider that champion again(and that's in solo queue). Sure, certain parts of the changes will get abused early, but they will definitely patch it out just as fast. Even that isn't a good thing because it creates a very inconsistent environment for these players to study/train in. That's the biggest issue here.
On November 12 2014 04:08 739 wrote:
What? Haunted Zyra is a good skin, come on.
It's a good skin, but the colors are off. It's not visually appealing at all.
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EPT
