EPT[Patch 4.19] Singed Reborn General Discussion - Page 25
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 12 2014 00:12 krndandaman wrote: Despite all this, I'm quite sure that the better prepared/more skilled team will make it into the LCS. Again, if you can't adapt to the changes you're gonna have a bad time in the LCS. The majority if the expansion teams are gonna have a bad time in the LCS regardless, I don't know why you keep using that as an argument, lol. | ||
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JonnyLaw
United States3482 Posts
On November 12 2014 00:35 GrandInquisitor wrote: Isn't it just spring split? Doesn't that not really matter anyway? The LCS teams get Riot's stipend for living costs. They also get two games a week on a major stage, the chance to win money by placing well in the tournament, major exposure for sponsors and they will have an easier chance obtaining scrims against the best teams in the region. So yeah, it doesn't matter for worlds but I'd say it does matter for the teams that qualify or do not qualify. It's not easy to stay in competitive shape when you're not getting paid. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On November 11 2014 20:22 Alaric wrote: I don't think Katarina would care much about the hp5/mp5 she gets compared to ~140 gold closer to her DFG, for example. You can't just value them like that. And just because Riot say they're big on something doesn't mean they are. They want simplicity, they want readibility, they want clarity, they want elegance. Then they shit these t2 and t3 changes. I'd argue the T2/T3 changes hit 3 out of 4 of the categories you listed, maybe even 4. The key is discoverability. There are extremely clear graphical indicators that something has changed with the inner and inhibitor turrets. It's essentially impossible to get to your lane/jungle without running past an inner turret, meaning any player who isn't completely oblivious will notice streams of energy pouring out of the inner turret and an inexplicable shield forming around them, which then disappears as they get too far away. Without reading a single patch note, a player can through passive observation figure out 90% of what's changed with inner turrets. Similarly, when inhibitor turrets get attacked the laser graphic clearly indicates "hey, this is different". Again, players can simply watch it butcher minions with faster, increasingly painful damage pulses and learn 90% of what's changed without reading a single patch note. This is basically the definition of readable, clear, and elegant. It's a little arbitrary, but so long as the visual cues are there to make it obvious that's not much of an issue. On the other hand making Smite give 100 bonus experience once is as hamfisted and opaque as it comes. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
On November 12 2014 01:01 GrandInquisitor wrote: No, I mean, the point is, when else are they going to do the switchover? It's easy to complain about how it's shitty to do it now, but what is the alternative? Switching mid-LCS? Switching before LCS starts but after the expansion tournament? Let the expansion tournament be played in 4.20 completely and LCS start with S5 Patch. edit: I was mistaken 4.20 apparently already has the new stuff in it. Just let the expansion tournament be played on the current patch and Spring Split starts with the Summer's Rift overhaul and all the jungle shenenigans. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On November 12 2014 01:01 GrandInquisitor wrote: No, I mean, the point is, when else are they going to do the switchover? It's easy to complain about how it's shitty to do it now, but what is the alternative? Switching mid-LCS? Switching before LCS starts but after the expansion tournament? Yes switching before lcs starts because they change a lot of stuff like the base stats of every champion unless this is not included.... | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
There's no reason to believe that a team that is slow to adapt to 4.20 is actually going to be better at 4.20 months down the line compared to a team that adapts to 4.20 quickly. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On November 12 2014 00:12 krndandaman wrote: The current LCS teams are locked in because that is their reward for performing last season. That's an irrelevant analogy that doesn't even work. Yes it's not completely fair that the expansion tournament is played on a very different patch, but there is no perfect solution to this (blame Riot for introducing so many changes, not the tourny rules). It'd be even dumber to play the tournament on a patch that will be irrelevant for S5. Despite all this, I'm quite sure that the better prepared/more skilled team will make it into the LCS. Again, if you can't adapt to the changes you're gonna have a bad time in the LCS. I don't get why you don't see the issue with your statements. You saying the LCS teams are rewarded based on a tournament on an irrelevant patch but the challenger teams can't be rewarded based on a tournament on an irrelevant patch? These teams that are only in said tournament because they finished top in the ladder on an irrelevant patch. There's nothing wrong with them playing the full expansion tournament on an irrelevant patch as that's consistent with how everyone else has qualified up until that point. I'm also against the statement that the more skill team is the one that adapts that fastest. That's an argument about innovation vs refinement. It's entirely possible team at the start of a patch figures something out faster but by the end of the tournament places last as they are inferior to other teams once those teams adapt as well. Adapting is a skill but it's not the only skill that defines a strong team. I think TI2 showed this really well where by the end of the tournament Navi had completely adapted to the new patch and was even outdrafting A but A had a level of refinement that Navi just couldn't overcome regardless of A being slightly behind the patch understanding. The worst part is that they aren't even having the whole expansion tournament on one patch, instead they having the first round of series on this current patch and the next round of series on another. So they changing the patch mid tournament. On November 12 2014 01:13 GrandInquisitor wrote: Am I misunderstanding something, or are you all just crazy? The tournament is on Patch X. Why the heck would you not have the qualifiers for that tournament also on Patch X? You're worried that the changes are too big to adapt to in three weeks, so you'd rather just promote teams who are good at a different game instead? There's no reason to believe that a team that is slow to adapt to 4.20 is actually going to be better at 4.20 months down the line compared to a team that adapts to 4.20 quickly. There's actually a lot of evidence to the contrary for that. If you look at last season EU LCS for example you have teams like ROC and A who were the inverse of each other. ROC started explosively as they really took to the patch at hand, after awhile they fell off compared to everyone else. A started terribly and had almost no idea how to play on that patch but gradually ended strong. You can do similar things across the regions and find teams that adapt fastest aren't always the ones that end up strong. You can even do the same across games where one region is often the most innovative and fastest to adapt yet after the other regions adapt they land up crushing the innovative region. It's even weirder hearing this line of thinking on TL.net where the overused trope is how EU/NA come up with some kind of strat then the other regions perfect that strat and beat them with it. That's not really the whole truth but it has been true at times in the past. These teams have already been promoted to the qualifier on a different game so then by your logic one has to redo the whole qualifying stage on the new game. | ||
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ketchup
14521 Posts
On November 11 2014 16:42 Apex wrote: Dyrus has survived the hell barring shenanigans. In other news, apparently the offline matches for Expansion tourney are going to be played with all the preseason changes. Not sure if 3 weeks is adequate time for such a game-changing patch, but... Are you 100% sure on this? From my understanding, they said the new graphic updates will be in for expansion tournament, but not the jungle changes. edit: Ah, it's even weirder. I looked up more info, and it is true that offline matches will be on the new patch, and others will be on the older one(first three rounds): + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On November 12 2014 01:41 ketchup wrote: Are you 100% sure on this? From my understanding, they said the new graphic updates will be in for expansion tournament, but not the jungle changes. Allow me to clarify the patch schedule for the Expansion Tournament first and foremost: The matches held over the next three weeks (two rounds per region, all played online) will be played on 4.19. This is the patch that is currently on live. Either next week or the week after, depending on the live launch, SRU (the map only, NOT the jungle changes) will be activated and used for the expansion tournament. This is strictly visual and quality changes. For the offline matches, which are held live mid-December, they will be played on 4.20 with SRU active. This is the full preseason patch, including the jungle changes. SRU is being turned on this week on live, and the original SR will soon be unavailable. Teams will have access to both SR and SRU on the Tournament Realm. Teams in both regions will have approximately three weeks of time to play on the preseason patch after their 4.19 matches are completed. In addition, we have the ability to add any emergency hotfixes that go live to the tournament realm before matches are played. If we run into any League of Cleavers or double Targon scenarios that our design team feels is way out of line, we'll be able to get them fixed up before offline matches begin. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2lxbyu/end_of_expansion_tournament_to_be_with_new_jungle/clz2yx3 So yes 100% sure. New graphic is only for first rounds of matches that happen offline while full patch is for the final round of matches that decide who goes through. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
There's nothing subtle about it, it's hamfisted as fuck. | ||
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ketchup
14521 Posts
On November 12 2014 01:44 Numy wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2lxbyu/end_of_expansion_tournament_to_be_with_new_jungle/clz2yx3 So yes 100% sure. New graphic is only for first rounds of matches that happen offline while full patch is for the final round of matches that decide who goes through. Yeah, I looked it up on twitter, and it looks like I only remembered/saw the first part of his statement. I was editing my post while you were writing yours. My fault! I didn't see the part about the offline matches which are the ones which are more important. That's so whacky/inconsistent. Riot pls Also, thanks for the info as well! | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On November 12 2014 01:13 Numy wrote: There's actually a lot of evidence to the contrary for that. If you look at last season EU LCS for example you have teams like ROC and A who were the inverse of each other. ROC started explosively as they really took to the patch at hand, after awhile they fell off compared to everyone else. A started terribly and had almost no idea how to play on that patch but gradually ended strong. You can do similar things across the regions and find teams that adapt fastest aren't always the ones that end up strong. You can even do the same across games where one region is often the most innovative and fastest to adapt yet after the other regions adapt they land up crushing the innovative region. It's even weirder hearing this line of thinking on TL.net where the overused trope is how EU/NA come up with some kind of strat then the other regions perfect that strat and beat them with it. That's not really the whole truth but it has been true at times in the past. These teams have already been promoted to the qualifier on a different game so then by your logic one has to redo the whole qualifying stage on the new game. EU LCS in season 4 wasn't played on a single patch. As each patch came out, different teams adapted to each patch at different speeds. There is no such phenomenon of a team that has a win rate at the start of every patch and a low win rate towards the end of every patch, or vice versa. The teams that did best over the season tended to do the best on every patch. Alliance taking a while to get good is therefore much better explained through team chemistry issues than through some weird patch-adaptation theory. More generally, it's possible that some teams are late bloomers, but there's no particular reason to believe that any team that starts off shitty is going to be great later. It is more likely that a team that adapts quickly, and then continues to adapt, will ultimately be better than a team that adapts very slowly. At the start of season 4, XDG was really slow to adapt. Did they transform like a butterfly midway through? Nope, they just got demoted. You know who were the best in spring week 1 of season 4? C9, TSM, and CRS. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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