EPT[Patch 4.18] Sion Reborn General Discussion - Page 121
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On October 30 2014 01:23 jcarlsoniv wrote: That's likely a big part of it. It's something I feel when I play a champ I'm not as familiar with as well. With Annie or Viktor, I have a pretty good grasp on exactly how much damage I can do. With someone like Vel'koz, who I started learning last night, I had an idea, but also found that I miscalculated a lot. It also depends on experience vs a particular opponent. It's one thing I really noticed a lot S2, when Morg was played mid so much. As someone who pretty much only plays mid, I got really good at dodging Morg Q (a skill I wish I had maintained better), but when she roamed, people got hit by it constantly. Knowing your opponent's limits are just as important, if not more so, than knowing your own. I think that you're underestimating the effect of strategic or tactical factors compared to skill. For the most part, dodging Morg q(and most skill shots) is more a function of zoning potential i find. Mids tend to have the longest zone control (and the most ancillary vision in lane) and so have a relatively easier time dodging skill shots as they will be tend to be shot from further away and with better vision coverage. But even with good warding there will be places where you can't see a roamer coming from. Almost more importantly is the relative power of zones. If its a 2v1 or 3v2 the zones of the disadvantaged players get weaker because they can only defend against one person at a time (unless super fed/mistakes are made). So when someone like Morgana roams it becomes a lot easier to hit her bindings; just because she can get closer to the enemy with more confidence, knowing that if they use their CC to stop morgs advances they can't use their CC to stop their partners advance. edit: What I am saying is that I bet you've moved to mids with less zone potential against Morg, or are seeing Morg less in situations where her Q is easy to dodge (mid v mid matchup) and more in situations where she has some sort of zone advantage (support roaming mid) more than you getting worse at dodging her Q's | ||
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aurawashere
Canada454 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 30 2014 03:42 Goumindong wrote: I think that you're underestimating the effect of strategic or tactical factors compared to skill. For the most part, dodging Morg q(and most skill shots) is more a function of zoning potential i find. Mids tend to have the longest zone control (and the most ancillary vision in lane) and so have a relatively easier time dodging skill shots as they will be tend to be shot from further away and with better vision coverage. But even with good warding there will be places where you can't see a roamer coming from. Almost more importantly is the relative power of zones. If its a 2v1 or 3v2 the zones of the disadvantaged players get weaker because they can only defend against one person at a time (unless super fed/mistakes are made). So when someone like Morgana roams it becomes a lot easier to hit her bindings; just because she can get closer to the enemy with more confidence, knowing that if they use their CC to stop morgs advances they can't use their CC to stop their partners advance. Oh, surely I over simplified. There are of course many other factors involved. It was more of a casual observation that I've always taken note of (and in my mind, I was thinking max range bindings in general, although I didn't say that). I'm also talking about vanilla Morg Q. Any Morg skin bindings are bullshit On October 30 2014 03:42 Goumindong wrote: edit: What I am saying is that I bet you've moved to mids with less zone potential against Morg, or are seeing Morg less in situations where her Q is easy to dodge (mid v mid matchup) and more in situations where she has some sort of zone advantage (support roaming mid) more than you getting worse at dodging her Q's not really lol, I play mostly the same mids I always have I'm not used to dodging her because 1) she isn't played as much, and 2) I took a year long break, so I'm bad | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On October 30 2014 03:42 Goumindong wrote: I think that you're underestimating the effect of strategic or tactical factors compared to skill. For the most part, dodging Morg q(and most skill shots) is more a function of zoning potential i find. Mids tend to have the longest zone control (and the most ancillary vision in lane) and so have a relatively easier time dodging skill shots as they will be tend to be shot from further away and with better vision coverage. But even with good warding there will be places where you can't see a roamer coming from. Almost more importantly is the relative power of zones. If its a 2v1 or 3v2 the zones of the disadvantaged players get weaker because they can only defend against one person at a time (unless super fed/mistakes are made). So when someone like Morgana roams it becomes a lot easier to hit her bindings; just because she can get closer to the enemy with more confidence, knowing that if they use their CC to stop morgs advances they can't use their CC to stop their partners advance. edit: What I am saying is that I bet you've moved to mids with less zone potential against Morg, or are seeing Morg less in situations where her Q is easy to dodge (mid v mid matchup) and more in situations where she has some sort of zone advantage (support roaming mid) more than you getting worse at dodging her Q's Also most mid champs have smaller hitboxes than the usual tanks on top/supports and get boots earlier than other lanes. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On October 30 2014 03:47 aurawashere wrote: froggen ddosing na wtf Hello struggler. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
I was going to say vel koz doesnt have issues with assassins in lane either , but more generally, the whole idea of 'counterpicks' drives me crazy. I really think there is no excuse for dying 1v1 in lane. This comes down to game knowledge and proper item/rune choice. | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
I think EUW servers are screwed again. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 30 2014 04:44 Vaporized wrote: Maxing w is more then fine on vel koz. I do that almost every time i play him. The wave clear is so good. This is important for 2 reasons. It puts pressure on the other laner, and opens up the lane, letting you use your other skills to poke while the other guy is trying to cs. I was going to say vel koz doesnt have issues with assassins in lane either , but more generally, the whole idea of 'counterpicks' drives me crazy. I really think there is no excuse for dying 1v1 in lane. This comes down to game knowledge and proper item/rune choice. I mean, yes and no. Dying 1v1 in lane is definitely avoidable, but if you make a small mistake, assassins are designed to just delete you right there. It requires more skill on your part to not die as Vel'koz than it does for an assassin opponent to kill you, which is why I wouldn't recommend it. But it's certainly doable, and it's worth learning how, but it's a headache for you. Vel'koz also has a lot less presence outside of his lane early because roaming as him can be dangerous without ward coverage. | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On October 30 2014 00:00 jaybrundage wrote: Yea and having so many factors that make it difficult to strictly say something is not viable. It could be said that I'm arguing semantics. But all I'm saying is Viable =/= Optimal One aspect that I thought was fairly obvious but that nobody has touched upon: At a non-professional level, different people have very different play styles that they are relatively good or bad at which significantly influence which champions they'll find success with. This is most obviously reflected in how different people are drawn to (and successful at) different lanes, but it also applies to whether you find it easier to be successful as a tank, a tanky bruiser, an assassin, a split pusher, a team fighter, etc. (these aren't mutually exclusive). If I had the time, energy, and ambitions that pros have when it comes to LoL, my personal preferences would have to take a back seat. But that's not the case, so a natural affinity to a certain type of champion, play style, etc. will actually significantly affect whether a champion is a good pick for me or not; I don't have the time to keep up with FOTM champions *and* practice them to a level that I can more quickly reach with a champion that is an inferior choice in the hands of a pro but that I feel more comfortable with (maybe due to past experience, but maybe just due to it matching personal preferences/instincts). I've had great success with Rumble and (bruiser) Nidalee early on, before all the Rumble changes and the Nidalee rework. The way I played them in lane in particular just felt very natural to me, which made it easier and more rewarding to play them against the "FOTM trends". I could've learned Renek/Shyv back when they were dominant, and I tried, but I just didn't play them right, and given my limited amount of time I would've actually been worse off picking them than staying with picks I felt more confident about -- even though I wouldn't have argued that my picks were in some objective sense inferior (certainly at the highest levels). On the other hand, I do terribly whenever I play assassins -- I just don't jibe with Fizz, Akali, Zed, and other really strong picks. Those picks may be optimal for pro players, but if anyone tells me that *me* picking any of those would've been optimal -- over e.g. Malzahar, who I'm relatively decent with --, they're actually flat-out wrong. It's perfectly reasonable to say that e.g. C9 didn't pick optimally because Hai's Talon pick was weak (arbitrary example, don't read anything into it). That's because we are generally expecting those players to be able to exploit individual champion strengths quite reliably regardless of playstyle -- it's their job! Telling specific forum members that their pick wasn't optimal (or even "not viable") is a very different thing. Even if I were only playing to win and didn't care about how boring a champ is, I still do much better with some unorthodox picks than with most orthodox picks. Clearly some picks are just flat-out bad and hard to justify, but arguing that there's this clearly demarcated set of "optimal" champions for all of us doesn't do justice to the fact that we aren't all identical blank slates. I'm not trying to stifle discussions about champion merits, but I do feel that people are too superficial in dismissing other peoples' choices without even considering personal differences. The guy who rides AD Malz to Diamond 1 might really be so good that he could take almost any champion/build to that level, or maybe he really is exploiting his opponents' lack of knowledge on dealing with AD Malz, but maybe it's also something in between: Perhaps this choice appealed to him personally in a way that helped him improve faster than FOTM junglers would have. | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
Never pick into Vi though. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On October 30 2014 01:10 JonGalt wrote: My main point was that a VAST majority of his posts are just plain fucking worthless. I was using his solo Q just to prove that all the shit he talks about he has very little if any experience in, and that is really stupid. For instance, some more examples... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/league-of-legends/467805-patch-417-soraka-viktor-general-discussion?page=40#791 "Meh, it's been impossible to solo carry since end of season 1. Now it's a matter of hinging your bets, and hoping you have another competent teammate along with you, so you guys can at least 2v5" Because the 2 ranked games you played in season 1 were a great indicator of solo carrying. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/league-of-legends/467805-patch-417-soraka-viktor-general-discussion?page=40#788 "Teleport smite is the go-to choice for jangle rammus though." 1 ranked game as Rammus in Season 3. Ok ok I'm sorry I keep bringing up solo Q but I can't help it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/league-of-legends/467805-patch-417-soraka-viktor-general-discussion?page=34#674 "He's still insanely strong in soloqueue, problem is game is all about lategame now, and Renekton's lategame in comparison is just not that great" He is talking about how strong Renekton is in solo Q and yet openly admits that he doesn't play a lot of solo Q and mostly draws his knowledge from an absurd amount of streams and pro games. Doesn't that seem contradictory? Ionno. It just seems like 99%, if not all of his posts, contribute literally NOTHING. Like if all 28k+ of wei2can'tputeffortintohisposts posts disappeared TODAY, would we even notice? It's just white noise that pisses me off and perpetrates an attitude that it's OK to post literal shit (or at least better than wei2coolshit) in GD. I have NO qualms with people shitposting, we now have an OT thread for that, but this is supposed to be THE place where quality posts surface. .... And yet no wei2qualityposts. Find me some wei2coolman posts that are quality. That people would say, "Wow great point wei2coolman, I'm really glad you mentioned that." As an example Numy posted the following... And RageQuitBM actually gained some knowledge from that. Numy didn't even have to post a lot, but he put some quality thought into that and RQBM actually posted that he will be looking out for that in the future. It even garnered some cool conversation from other posters. What does wei2coolman give back? How does he help? As long as he continues to post terrible fucking shit on this sub-forum, other posters, new or old, will be OK with shitty quality posts and that to me is not cool. But what do I know. I haven't played or seen a game of League of Legends since October 2012 (except for like 2 weeks of minimal time July 2013). Edit: But whatever. The dude at the internet cafe is kicking me out so I'll be back in like a month lol. I'd literally say 80-90% of the posts on this forum are completely shit. It really makes me miss the no mercy modding we used to get in the Broodwar forum honestly. I wish TL had a mute option for 90% of the people that post here bc they are really shit posters and its frustrating as fuck to try and get help then you just get straight trolled/shitposted. terrible posting quality in this forum is basically why i dont post here anymore besides the occasional post to gripe about something in the QQ thread | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4123 Posts
On October 30 2014 05:49 arb wrote: I'd literally say 80-90% of the posts on this forum are completely shit. It really makes me miss the no mercy modding we used to get in the Broodwar forum honestly. I wish TL had a mute option for 90% of the people that post here bc they are really shit posters and its frustrating as fuck to try and get help then you just get straight trolled/shitposted. terrible posting quality in this forum is basically why i dont post here anymore besides the occasional post to gripe about something in the QQ thread The funny thing is that most of the shitposts are done by the same 5-10 people. Can't we just report them? Oh wait, we can: On May 07 2014 02:21 NeoIllusions wrote: Feel free to report posts in GD about the game that don't make sense. The moderators obviously won't warn or ban a user for having an incorrect idea but it definitely should not be perpetuated further. On May 07 2014 02:36 NeoIllusions wrote: Yes, GD and the strategy subforum will be more stringent. Consider this spring (summer?) cleaning for TL LoL. Moderation will be more heavy handed henceforth in regards to bad posting. Let's just clear out the bad posters and make a forum where stuff that just doesn't make sense doesn't get posted. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On October 29 2014 23:21 JonGalt wrote: So after 2 years of reading TLLOLGD, I have a very strong opinion on wei2coolman that I can not contain anymore. This is totally out of the blue, but it makes me super upset and I haven't been able to properly post about it because of my technological limitations but I'd just like to point out why wei2coolman is a terrible poster here (read: THE WORST) on GD - don't give a fuck about OT/LR Threads cause it's 2014 and there's no judgement. I don't know about the worst. There's a lot of people who post really dumb stuff. Maybe they burn out faster, but still. If you sit down and read every post, I'd expect you to go crazy though. I wish more people would call other people out on their shit though. | ||
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asymptotech
United States295 Posts
On October 30 2014 05:41 bmn wrote: Perhaps this choice appealed to him personally in a way that helped him improve faster than FOTM junglers would have. Bless you. | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
I am exempt because i don't post here. Literally all you people do is cry about this thread / forum being full of toxic shitters with no knowledge. True LoL players, all of you. May TL's tribunal be swift. Maybe you should all just stfu and get back to talking about league. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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ketchup
14521 Posts
so I repost for everyone! Still pretty funny/awkward even after all these years | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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