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On October 29 2014 14:13 Alzadar wrote:
You don't need to restrict yourself to theorycraft on this.
C9 vs Samsung Blue saw Maokai vs Rumble two games in a row.
Acorn as Rumble went Haunting -> Sorcs vs Balls' Maokai
Balls as Rumble went Haunting -> Sorcs vs Acorn's Maokai
Both games Rumble was controlling the lane.
But remember here on TL, pros don't know what they're doing
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On October 29 2014 14:39 Zess wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 14:13 Alzadar wrote:
You don't need to restrict yourself to theorycraft on this.
C9 vs Samsung Blue saw Maokai vs Rumble two games in a row.
Acorn as Rumble went Haunting -> Sorcs vs Balls' Maokai
Balls as Rumble went Haunting -> Sorcs vs Acorn's Maokai
Both games Rumble was controlling the lane. But remember here on TL, pros don't know what they're doing
I actually think all choices made by professional players need to be taken with multiple grains of salt, because:
1. Most players are not challenger players.
2. Solo Q is not the same as playing with the same players who have played with you for thousands of hours.
3. You are playing for fun. They are playing for money/glory/etc.
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On October 29 2014 14:46 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 14:39 Zess wrote:On October 29 2014 14:13 Alzadar wrote:
You don't need to restrict yourself to theorycraft on this.
C9 vs Samsung Blue saw Maokai vs Rumble two games in a row.
Acorn as Rumble went Haunting -> Sorcs vs Balls' Maokai
Balls as Rumble went Haunting -> Sorcs vs Acorn's Maokai
Both games Rumble was controlling the lane. But remember here on TL, pros don't know what they're doing 3. You are playing for fun. They are playing for money/glory/etc.
So you won't build the most optimal items because you are not playing for the $$$? Though fun in soloq is coming from winning, while the $$$ and glory in competitive games are coming from winning as well, so the goal is pretty much the same.
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On October 29 2014 13:25 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 13:21 Amui wrote:On October 29 2014 13:19 Frolossus wrote:
don't you also get half spellvamp or less for AoE? 1/3 for aoe. You could get revolver and freefarm on rumble, but honestly, would you rather have guise or revolver for first/second dragon fight? One will kill the whole enemy team with one skill if you place it right, the other will do moderate damage. The answer to that question is which you should get. The problem is that you will also need to buy 5 pots each time you back against Maokai, and Maokai will outsustain your 5 pots with his 5 pots + flask + Catalyst. You can either get 5 pots and get outsustained and pushed out of lane while allowing Maokai to roam, or you can just get a revolver and take total control of your lane with an iron fist. The answer to that question is which you should get.
If Maokai out sustains your 750 HP pot buffer per back then it's a losing matchup and spending 400 gold on less HP (as in good luck doing 7500 damage with your Q as rumble before you're pushed out lane) isn't going to do anything but lose you the lane faster and make it harder to get to your core late game itemization which is sorc, guise, void or abyssal or both, and then fucking whatever.
So let's be clear here. Theoretically revolver is a worse buy. The HP you get back does not come close to the HP provided by equal pots. So raw power potential is reduced. Additionally it does not build into any of rumbles core items (ie pen items) and so has no upside after laning phase.
Now it's entirely possible that rumble stomps maokai so hard you can go revolver but if you stomp someone super hard you might as well go late game. Which is, conveniently, more conductive to pots in this scenario.
So it's not even TL hipsterism it's just you being wrong about rumbles power items and the strength of pots.
Edit: TL needs a :shovel: emoticon.
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The point suff was trying to make, is that your are not playing a viable champion, you are a viable player.
It is like if faker played a bunch of zac mid when leveling a new account. The fact that said account makes Challenger says nothing about zac.
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On October 29 2014 15:12 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 13:25 Sufficiency wrote:On October 29 2014 13:21 Amui wrote:On October 29 2014 13:19 Frolossus wrote:
don't you also get half spellvamp or less for AoE? 1/3 for aoe. You could get revolver and freefarm on rumble, but honestly, would you rather have guise or revolver for first/second dragon fight? One will kill the whole enemy team with one skill if you place it right, the other will do moderate damage. The answer to that question is which you should get. The problem is that you will also need to buy 5 pots each time you back against Maokai, and Maokai will outsustain your 5 pots with his 5 pots + flask + Catalyst. You can either get 5 pots and get outsustained and pushed out of lane while allowing Maokai to roam, or you can just get a revolver and take total control of your lane with an iron fist. The answer to that question is which you should get. If Maokai out sustains your 750 HP pot buffer per back then it's a losing matchup and spending 400 gold on less HP (as in good luck doing 7500 damage with your Q as rumble before you're pushed out lane) isn't going to do anything but lose you the lane faster and make it harder to get to your core late game itemization which is sorc, guise, void or abyssal or both, and then fucking whatever. So let's be clear here. Theoretically revolver is a worse buy. The HP you get back does not come close to the HP provided by equal pots. So raw power potential is reduced. Additionally it does not build into any of rumbles core items (ie pen items) and so has no upside after laning phase. Now it's entirely possible that rumble stomps maokai so hard you can go revolver but if you stomp someone super hard you might as well go late game. Which is, conveniently, more conductive to pots in this scenario. So it's not even TL hipsterism it's just you being wrong about rumbles power items and the strength of pots. Edit: TL needs a :shovel: emoticon.
Remember, again, pots are not free.
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On October 29 2014 15:16 cLutZ wrote:
The point suff was trying to make, is that your are not playing a viable champion, you are a viable player.
It is like if faker played a bunch of zac mid when leveling a new account. The fact that said account makes Challenger says nothing about zac.
Also keep in mind Faker probably has played 10k+ hours of League of Legends. You can't compare a "typical" player's experience with him.
You can probably even say that Faker is a "god" who can make any champion viable. Unfortunately most players can't make it work.
It's kind of like saying a trained physicist with a PhD specializing in the area telling you that general relativity is easy and makes total sense. Unfortunately most people (and this includes a good majority of really smart ones) find its concepts difficult to understand.
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On October 29 2014 15:19 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 15:12 Goumindong wrote:On October 29 2014 13:25 Sufficiency wrote:On October 29 2014 13:21 Amui wrote:On October 29 2014 13:19 Frolossus wrote:
don't you also get half spellvamp or less for AoE? 1/3 for aoe. You could get revolver and freefarm on rumble, but honestly, would you rather have guise or revolver for first/second dragon fight? One will kill the whole enemy team with one skill if you place it right, the other will do moderate damage. The answer to that question is which you should get. The problem is that you will also need to buy 5 pots each time you back against Maokai, and Maokai will outsustain your 5 pots with his 5 pots + flask + Catalyst. You can either get 5 pots and get outsustained and pushed out of lane while allowing Maokai to roam, or you can just get a revolver and take total control of your lane with an iron fist. The answer to that question is which you should get. If Maokai out sustains your 750 HP pot buffer per back then it's a losing matchup and spending 400 gold on less HP (as in good luck doing 7500 damage with your Q as rumble before you're pushed out lane) isn't going to do anything but lose you the lane faster and make it harder to get to your core late game itemization which is sorc, guise, void or abyssal or both, and then fucking whatever. So let's be clear here. Theoretically revolver is a worse buy. The HP you get back does not come close to the HP provided by equal pots. So raw power potential is reduced. Additionally it does not build into any of rumbles core items (ie pen items) and so has no upside after laning phase. Now it's entirely possible that rumble stomps maokai so hard you can go revolver but if you stomp someone super hard you might as well go late game. Which is, conveniently, more conductive to pots in this scenario. So it's not even TL hipsterism it's just you being wrong about rumbles power items and the strength of pots. Edit: TL needs a :shovel: emoticon. Remember, again, pots are not free.
Sure as fuck cheaper than revolver.
Edit: I mean seriously you want to spend more money for less power on an item out of your core build path because options aren't good enough for you or something?
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On October 29 2014 15:24 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 15:19 Sufficiency wrote:On October 29 2014 15:12 Goumindong wrote:On October 29 2014 13:25 Sufficiency wrote:On October 29 2014 13:21 Amui wrote:On October 29 2014 13:19 Frolossus wrote:
don't you also get half spellvamp or less for AoE? 1/3 for aoe. You could get revolver and freefarm on rumble, but honestly, would you rather have guise or revolver for first/second dragon fight? One will kill the whole enemy team with one skill if you place it right, the other will do moderate damage. The answer to that question is which you should get. The problem is that you will also need to buy 5 pots each time you back against Maokai, and Maokai will outsustain your 5 pots with his 5 pots + flask + Catalyst. You can either get 5 pots and get outsustained and pushed out of lane while allowing Maokai to roam, or you can just get a revolver and take total control of your lane with an iron fist. The answer to that question is which you should get. If Maokai out sustains your 750 HP pot buffer per back then it's a losing matchup and spending 400 gold on less HP (as in good luck doing 7500 damage with your Q as rumble before you're pushed out lane) isn't going to do anything but lose you the lane faster and make it harder to get to your core late game itemization which is sorc, guise, void or abyssal or both, and then fucking whatever. So let's be clear here. Theoretically revolver is a worse buy. The HP you get back does not come close to the HP provided by equal pots. So raw power potential is reduced. Additionally it does not build into any of rumbles core items (ie pen items) and so has no upside after laning phase. Now it's entirely possible that rumble stomps maokai so hard you can go revolver but if you stomp someone super hard you might as well go late game. Which is, conveniently, more conductive to pots in this scenario. So it's not even TL hipsterism it's just you being wrong about rumbles power items and the strength of pots. Edit: TL needs a :shovel: emoticon. Remember, again, pots are not free. Sure as fuck cheaper than revolver.
Come on, you can calculate how much those spellvamp is worth, and how many pots that's equivalent to.
Also, see Philosopher's Stone built on laners. Feel free to argue that solo queue has changed since season 2 and most players nowadays are in fact aware of each others "power spikes".
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Yea I already did in the post chain you replied to that "pots aren't free" You have to do about 16,000 magic damage with single target abilities before you make up the pot differential.
If you walk into lane at level 9 with a revolver, use your e on CD and hit a creep and not something with MR every time (ignoring overheating) it's going to take you [i]8 minutes[i/] to overcome the deficit on pots. And that is with hilariously beneficial calculation for various reasons not worth going into.
Revolver is an item you buy if you're losing lane and need even more sustain than pots/flask can give.
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On October 29 2014 15:29 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 15:24 Goumindong wrote:On October 29 2014 15:19 Sufficiency wrote:On October 29 2014 15:12 Goumindong wrote:On October 29 2014 13:25 Sufficiency wrote:On October 29 2014 13:21 Amui wrote:On October 29 2014 13:19 Frolossus wrote:
don't you also get half spellvamp or less for AoE? 1/3 for aoe. You could get revolver and freefarm on rumble, but honestly, would you rather have guise or revolver for first/second dragon fight? One will kill the whole enemy team with one skill if you place it right, the other will do moderate damage. The answer to that question is which you should get. The problem is that you will also need to buy 5 pots each time you back against Maokai, and Maokai will outsustain your 5 pots with his 5 pots + flask + Catalyst. You can either get 5 pots and get outsustained and pushed out of lane while allowing Maokai to roam, or you can just get a revolver and take total control of your lane with an iron fist. The answer to that question is which you should get. If Maokai out sustains your 750 HP pot buffer per back then it's a losing matchup and spending 400 gold on less HP (as in good luck doing 7500 damage with your Q as rumble before you're pushed out lane) isn't going to do anything but lose you the lane faster and make it harder to get to your core late game itemization which is sorc, guise, void or abyssal or both, and then fucking whatever. So let's be clear here. Theoretically revolver is a worse buy. The HP you get back does not come close to the HP provided by equal pots. So raw power potential is reduced. Additionally it does not build into any of rumbles core items (ie pen items) and so has no upside after laning phase. Now it's entirely possible that rumble stomps maokai so hard you can go revolver but if you stomp someone super hard you might as well go late game. Which is, conveniently, more conductive to pots in this scenario. So it's not even TL hipsterism it's just you being wrong about rumbles power items and the strength of pots. Edit: TL needs a :shovel: emoticon. Remember, again, pots are not free. Sure as fuck cheaper than revolver. Come on, you can calculate how much those spellvamp is worth, and how many pots that's equivalent to. Also, see Philosopher's Stone built on laners. Feel free to argue that solo queue has changed since season 2 and most players nowadays are in fact aware of each others "power spikes".
Warmogs saves even more pot money
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
I've sent a support ticket about my ranked restriction (I need to play 38 games, I've already played a couple of them and it still shows 38....), 9 days passed and I still got no answer.
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On October 29 2014 16:06 739 wrote:
I've sent a support ticket about my ranked restriction (I need to play 38 games, I've already played a couple of them and it still shows 38....), 9 days passed and I still got no answer.
I thought it was wins not games? Could be your problem if you lost those games.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
On October 29 2014 17:42 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 16:06 739 wrote:
I've sent a support ticket about my ranked restriction (I need to play 38 games, I've already played a couple of them and it still shows 38....), 9 days passed and I still got no answer. I thought it was wins not games? Could be your problem if you lost those games.
I've won 2 out of 4 games and it still shows 38 games.
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On October 29 2014 11:12 Sufficiency wrote:
If you like buying 5 pots each time you go to lane, then sure, skip revolver.
Are you saying I should build a vamp scepter, or even the component to Essence Reaver once it's live, because I often buy 3 pots on top of my filled flask when I back as Irelia and systematically use all of it saved maybe one pot before I back?
On October 29 2014 13:25 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 13:21 Amui wrote:On October 29 2014 13:19 Frolossus wrote:
don't you also get half spellvamp or less for AoE? 1/3 for aoe. You could get revolver and freefarm on rumble, but honestly, would you rather have guise or revolver for first/second dragon fight? One will kill the whole enemy team with one skill if you place it right, the other will do moderate damage. The answer to that question is which you should get. The problem is that you will also need to buy 5 pots each time you back against Maokai, and Maokai will outsustain your 5 pots with his 5 pots + flask + Catalyst. You can either get 5 pots and get outsustained and pushed out of lane while allowing Maokai to roam, or you can just get a revolver and take total control of your lane with an iron fist. The answer to that question is which you should get.
Maokai has 30 base MR and no growth in that department. Haunting Guise gives 15 MPen. He sure as hell is going to outsustain the ~12% damage output increase (assuming flat MR glyphs and MR masteries while he's working on RoA) and force you to have sustain yourself to not lose the lane to him.
As for the differences with season 2, yup top lane's very different from then, especially from masteries changes.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
http://yy.tv/90888dopa
Apdo is streaming, loads slowly and the sound seems to be fucked up for me. But it's fucking apdo.
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Pootie too good!4331 Posts
Sufficiency is slowly turning into the next PX.
Both of you love to play devil's advocate and I totally understand your points, but holy shit ya'll are terrible at expressing your opinions. If you are gonna go against the TL majority opinion you have to not suck at explaining yourself.
Edit: And don't say "lawlz these idiots just don't understand me." Because I 99% percent understand what both of you are trying to say, but this is TL and you have to provide waaaaaayyyy more evidence/arguments than normal here. If you haven't realized that then Ionno what the fuck you tryna do.
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I don't know why sufficiency is arguing how he is. spell vamp was never about lane sustain for any champs not using health costs. it was about letting you extend trades past the point that pots can help you recover in time. the champ with spell vamp can trade longer and recover quicker than the champ with pots alone. it was useful on rumble because if you could trade through an entire cooldown then you had little chance of losing that trade because of his great base damage. whether its ideal or not now i sure as hell don't know. i dont actually play that champ anymore, but the penetration builds do let him control objectives with his team and teleport, rather than just dominating lane to allow the roam like in the past when spell vamp was considering good on him.
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Man, I don't know if it's because I play ADC, and just rely on my support to carry me through lane, or what, but how do you guys get more consistent in solo queue? Like I have gigantic swings in performance, literally switching from 2 - 7 - 0 to 24 - 3 - 9 immediately after. And this happens consistently.
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EPT
