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On October 04 2014 05:06 Slusher wrote:
also I know it was a couple pages ago, but I wanted to touch on the conversation about "being good at getting carried/being safe" > "I'M THE CARRY" for solo Q, I love this sentiment and I think an amazing example is that Hai was the only LCS player to break into challenger on KR solo Q
just having good game awareness and being in the right spot to help your team is better than being a lane monster(not that being a lane monster is mutually exclusive or bad)
Hai also played the most number of games iirc.
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out of the LCS players that were playing solo Q I don't think anyone would rate him #1 and that is the point.
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I know this may sound shocking to you guys but considering it is soloq looking too much into it is kind of a waste.Could easily just be luck and nothing else.
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On October 04 2014 05:34 nafta wrote:
I know this may sound shocking to you guys but considering it is soloq looking too much into it is kind of a waste.Could easily just be luck and nothing else.
Not when the context of the conversation is what wins games in solo q lol
The fact that a guy know for poor landing but really good shovelling is kinda different from what is often preached
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Problem is you have to be better than most people in the game for the "I'm the carry" mentality to work.Most people aren't.It is pretty much the same as trying to convince people that when they are smurfing they should pick support and ward+stuff instead of just picking akali or some shit and 1v9ing.
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United States47024 Posts
Really people just misunderstood what is meant when people are arguing that you should "play selfish" to win in solo queue. It doesn't mean you should ignore your team and try to 1v9. It just means you should prioritize your own tempo and exercise your own judgment rather than just following your team and listening to them.
It's a logical extension of the pretty basic wisdom that if you want to carry games as jungle, you don't gank lanes just because the laner is whining for you to gank--because not only are they wrong a lot of the time, even if they're right, you learn absolutely zero from listening to someone else tell you how to play the game rather than applying your own understanding and learning from it when you're wrong. Rather than just applying that to the basic scenario of a jungler ganking lanes, the same philosophy applies to decision-making in game in general--if you're making decisions for yourself, you're going to learn more from your mistakes and improve faster than just following your team blindly every game.
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Carrying the game just means you did what it takes to get your team the win; whether it is 1v5'ing their team because you got really fed, or putting the wards down so that your really fed but map-deficient Top Riven can afk splitpush safely because you go vision control of their jungle.
Everyone has varying skills and weaknesses that are keeping them at what MMR they are, so if they aren't self-aware enough to fix their mistakes and improve, then you carry games by identifying then and instead of pointing it out in chat, just playing in a way such that those mistakes aren't as detrimental to your team.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
It's not quite so selfless as that -- the "play selfish" advice also affects your build and champion choice. If I was supporting Deft or Imp or whoever, I might pick Janna and rush Mikael's etc. But if I had to carry myself out of Bronze V as support, fuck that, I'm rushing Rabadon's on support Annie/Zyra. To a lesser extreme, on a jungler like Jarvan or Vi, I build much more damage in solo queue than I would in ranked team queue.
For example, I have results back from this experiment:
On September 03 2014 01:21 GrandInquisitor wrote:
New experiment -- I'm going to start building Sightstone after my Spirit item on every non-glass cannon jungler from now on. Good / bad idea?
And I am 0-for-5 in games where I do that. Obviously the sample size is relatively small, but it's enough to make me give up on the idea.
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Dunno, last game I had a jungle Jax go lizard > triforce > BotRK; the build is terrible when coming from the jungle but that's not the point, it was a "selfish" build, as if he wanted to carry.
However, he was trying to take fights on people because he thought he was strong 1v1. While the build was tailored for that, you can't do it by going 1v2 or 1v3 most of these times, because even if we follow him then it becomes a teamfight, and the build isn't tailored to that.
So even if you can easily train people's mechanics, or give them a cookie-cutter "carry build", there's still the whole understanding part behind it.
Similar to the "trick udyr" (or whatever they call that phoney), there are a lot of people trying to emulate it because it "carries", but because they don't know how to splitpush, or have 0 vision control because they didn't develop that skill and it isn't taught like you can copy the build, they keep failing.
That's something you can't give as that "20s piece of advice to carry".
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On October 04 2014 07:19 Alaric wrote:
Dunno, last game I had a jungle Jax go lizard > triforce > BotRK; the build is terrible when coming from the jungle but that's not the point, it was a "selfish" build, as if he wanted to carry.
However, he was trying to take fights on people because he thought he was strong 1v1. While the build was tailored for that, you can't do it by going 1v2 or 1v3 most of these times, because even if we follow him then it becomes a teamfight, and the build isn't tailored to that.
So even if you can easily train people's mechanics, or give them a cookie-cutter "carry build", there's still the whole understanding part behind it.
Similar to the "trick udyr" (or whatever they call that phoney), there are a lot of people trying to emulate it because it "carries", but because they don't know how to splitpush, or have 0 vision control because they didn't develop that skill and it isn't taught like you can copy the build, they keep failing.
That's something you can't give as that "20s piece of advice to carry".
And they keep up with the udyr because every once in a while they win with their bad split push, because the other team just flounders at map awareness. I lost a couple placement matches pinging the udyr and asking for help and trying to 1v1 him as a support to defend our base while my team farmed wolves or some nonsense. That smurf account tries my patience so much. it feels like nothing i say or do will change anything my team does, so i'm just along for the ride since i can't get too many objectives solo. i don't like this direction of the game for that reason.
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On October 04 2014 05:06 Slusher wrote:
also I know it was a couple pages ago, but I wanted to touch on the conversation about "being good at getting carried/being safe" > "I'M THE CARRY" for solo Q, I love this sentiment and I think an amazing example is that Hai was the only LCS player to break into challenger on KR solo Q
just having good game awareness and being in the right spot to help your team is better than being a lane monster(not that being a lane monster is mutually exclusive or bad)
My diamond and master friends call me "Best Backpack EUNE" because I'm appearently good at getting carried, guess that's why I love being the support more so than any other role - I prefer all the small tactical "invisible" battles over #LCSBIGPLAYS. 
The primary reason for the importance of being good at getting carried in soloQ is pretty simple IMO. All the times you are not playing the carry or had a poor laning phase, you are using this "skill set". Since I doubt any adc mains always win their lane, it's just as an important aspect for them as for the other members.
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... I ult Ashe, Lee kicks me, I'm sent flying.
Up to here, everything's normal.
I'm Vi.
Played 2 games tonight, on 2 different champions, had 2 spells on each of them fizzle at least once. 3 of these spells are known bugs for several months to several years.
I kind of hate the way Riot handle their shit on that topic when it doesn't appear in the LCS (and even when it does, it sometimes gets ignored (I'm still salty about that one)).
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On October 04 2014 08:00 Alaric wrote:
... I ult Ashe, Lee kicks me, I'm sent flying.
Up to here, everything's normal.
I'm Vi.
Played 2 games tonight, on 2 different champions, had 2 spells on each of them fizzle at least once. 3 of these spells are known bugs for several months to several years.
I kind of hate the way Riot handle their shit on that topic when it doesn't appear in the LCS (and even when it does, it sometimes gets ignored (I'm still salty about that one)).
hint.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Oh I gave her a try again, but it's definitely time I get something else.
Even without the glitches, that game had Lee, Riven, Ashe, Annie, Leona, and it reminded me of how stupidly weak her kit is for a melee champion with such a bad attack animation (I think her animation for triggering W's 3rd stack has more windup than Wukong's). Any kind of slow just ruins her, and pretty much any hard cc or silence makes her Q a non-factor (1.5s to charge it, 3s cd if you get interrupted, 1.5s to charge it again*), and her ult isn't nearly good enough with all the disengage* to make it worthwile.
So she can't 1v1 people, she can't RQ combo against cc, and her passive isn't enough if you need survivability. Meanwhile, her dps is easily reduced to 0 because of how bad she is at chasing outside of QautoE combos.
Not enough assassins in the meta to make up for it and snowball lanes.
Thinking of getting J4. I like Udyr, but he doesn't work well with the popular picks, and he has the same weaknesses as Vi, without the glitches or the initiation, so there's no point in taking him. Hecarim fun but too farm dependant.
I'd get Rammus if I could figure out how to make it work. Maybe I should relearn to straight up camp a lane.
* her Q tends to glitch a lot if you go for the minimal charge (tap Q with smartcast on). It won't go off till later, or you'll sometimes need to press Q again and release it to cast (she's "stuck" in her charge).
Even when her ult doesn't bug out, it's so easy to disrupt her because it doesn't do much on people aside from the target.
Another bit about fucked up shit: Irelia automatically tries to attack whoever gets hit with her ult. You can never use it while running away because it'll override whatever move command you've given, and you'll run back right into the enemies behind you.
It's just coded as a stupid behaviour like that.
Oh. Also EUW fucked, 3 games in a row, 3 dc from at least one team (both in one of them).
Edit: when I reached level 30 I had Ashe, Morgana, Irelia, Swain, and at least one of Renekton or Singed. That was before price reductions so Morg was 3150, the other two 6300 each, Renek 4800+ and Singed... can't remember well either.
I had enough for 2 sets of runes (MPen/AD marks, armour seals, MR/level glyphs, and MS quints), then I started grinding.
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On October 04 2014 05:23 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 05:06 Slusher wrote:
also I know it was a couple pages ago, but I wanted to touch on the conversation about "being good at getting carried/being safe" > "I'M THE CARRY" for solo Q, I love this sentiment and I think an amazing example is that Hai was the only LCS player to break into challenger on KR solo Q
just having good game awareness and being in the right spot to help your team is better than being a lane monster(not that being a lane monster is mutually exclusive or bad) Hai also played the most number of games iirc.
You don't, actually. Upon him hitting masters as the 2nd player from LCS, Rekkles had somewhere around 40 games more than him. Rekkles never went anywhere, Hai got to Challenger in a day or 2.
Hai currently has the 4th most games in soloq outside of all the LCS players in the bootcamp and has played more at a high ranking than many of them.
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On October 04 2014 07:09 GrandInquisitor wrote:It's not quite so selfless as that -- the "play selfish" advice also affects your build and champion choice. If I was supporting Deft or Imp or whoever, I might pick Janna and rush Mikael's etc. But if I had to carry myself out of Bronze V as support, fuck that, I'm rushing Rabadon's on support Annie/Zyra. To a lesser extreme, on a jungler like Jarvan or Vi, I build much more damage in solo queue than I would in ranked team queue. For example, I have results back from this experiment: Show nested quote +On September 03 2014 01:21 GrandInquisitor wrote:
New experiment -- I'm going to start building Sightstone after my Spirit item on every non-glass cannon jungler from now on. Good / bad idea? And I am 0-for-5 in games where I do that. Obviously the sample size is relatively small, but it's enough to make me give up on the idea.
Diligence with buying wards and using your trinket will go far enough toward securing vision early on as a jungler I think. On the other hand I have recently been buying sightstone on low mobility mids (syndra/ziggs/lux/etc.) as my 6th item if I am willing to devote the item to defense. I had two games where I crushed super hard and lost because at 6 items and sweeper I was forced to depend entirely on my team for vision. I guess the way I see it is that if you are syndra and they get on top of you then you are dead whether you have banshees or the 400hp sightstone so you either win the game on positioning or lose badly and wards are the key.
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what am i suppose to do as Jayce when both team engage? just sit behind and play like adc?
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If you got flash you do your combo and if not then you wait til the other team has blown their stuff, then you do your combo.
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EPT
