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On September 26 2014 22:12 Alaric wrote:Na, because Sion already took E at level 4 even when AP sometimes, and it applied however you killed the unit. It's weaker than AD Sion's (since he leveled it first and got 2 HP per kill once he hit 3), and even assuming AP Sion took it and kept it at level 1, you only get 1 HP per minion killed, so in an overall game you won't catch up to current Sion's natural HP pool. He has 2275 HP at level 18 currently even without skilling E. He'll have ~1480 HP according to the PBE, which is the lowest base HP in the game by far. Even with E's passive and farming 200 cs he'll only have below average HP for a tank/bruiser. You'll have to hit super late game just to have a good "natural" HP pool, and we all know what happens to tanks' farm once the team starts grouping. 
Yeah I'll be really disappointed if they ship him like this. At level 18 he'll need 230 cs just to equal the base hp of a level 18 renekton, and 250 cs just to equal the base hp of a nasus.
The idea behind old sion was cool because he was a tanky monstrosity that got even tankier as time went by. New sion is basically either you farm really well, and you're equally tanky to an average bruiser/tank, or if you ever fall behind in farm you become super squishy. They've made it a handicap rather then a cool strength >.>
If you're going to theme a champion around being an unstoppable undead killing machine, then why the fk are you nerfing his tankyness to neutralise his iconic tanky scaling ability, rather then trying to highlight his defining aspect and nerfing something else (his cc, his move speed, his mobility, his cooldowns, his damge whatever) to compensate. It's like they thought "how can we have him scale with cs, while making the fact that he scales with cs as irrelevant as possible"...
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That's not how riot balances. they like clear best use scenarios and meaningful choices and clarity and counterplay. you didn't use any of those.
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On September 27 2014 02:28 PrinceXizor wrote:
That's not how riot balances. they like clear best use scenarios and meaningful choices and clarity and counterplay. you didn't use any of those.
Doesn't having a clear best use all but kill meaningful choice?
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On September 27 2014 02:31 lilwisper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2014 02:28 PrinceXizor wrote:
That's not how riot balances. they like clear best use scenarios and meaningful choices and clarity and counterplay. you didn't use any of those. Doesn't having a clear best use all but kill meaningful choice?
Yea but we also know everything they say about clarity and choices is just fluff used to justify arbitrary decisions under the guise of having a cohesive design strategy.
I'm not sure how new soraka for example has meaningful counterplay or offers meaningful choices for the player playing. It'd be easier to write a bot script for soraka than it would be for veigar who already just does 1 thing.
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Just going to throw these interesting facts I just learned in my last game in case you were wondering, and I know you were.
-if you build Trinity force on Viktor the Q followup auto converts the sheen damage to magic.
-if the auto attack crits that portion of the damage is still magic
-however if you buy a blade the %hp damage is still physical
ad Viktor is pretty hilarious (although I'm not sure practical) because you can blast someone for 500 physical one moment then do ~700 magic the next
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Sion should get 40 hp from kills and 20 from assists instead of just 8 from kills. make the unstoppable killing machine, become unstoppable the more killing he does. 8 from big minions/monsters and 2 from lil guys is fine.
riot has been doing a lot of "we're gonna give this character a unique bonus, but nerf the related stat to make up for it" thing a lot.
cass's ratios get gutted, but she gets a lot mor AP now yaaay....
Azir gets strong with attack speed and gets a bunch of free attack speed.. lets make his base atk speed terrible.
Sion gets hp/kill lets gut his Hp stat.
diana similar to azir.
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It's not super new, Jarvan's base armor has always been horrendous because of standard. (I don't know what release Jarvan was like I know he was nerfed a bit but that was 2 years ago)
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Pretty sure they also nerfed the shit out of his movespeed. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it's noticeable. I played a round with him on the PBE and noticed immediately.
Couple other things: Max range, max charge Q knockup is not long enough to get on top of somebody. Mostly due to the Nautilus level move speed. W feels pretty good. Built no AP so it didn't blow people up like old Sion, but the shield part felt pretty good. Sniping folks from halfway across the map with minion bumped E is hilarious. R is super wonky and takes a few tries to figure out
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hi i just got a message from opening launcher that says sorry we detected some possible data corruption in your installation would you like to repair files
do i hit ok or is this a tarp
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You can hit 0K, it told me the same.
I think Sion's Q is more a follow-up to a stun or slow ('cause it hits quite hard early on) than a setup anyway.
Tried going Morello -> Augment on Viktor, still didn't clear quite well, and the mp5 from Morello is outstripped rather fast (was a mirror, other guy farmed better than me and getting ganked made it worse, he had more success rushing Q augment after codex but I think that's because he positioned better than me post-lane too, and in lane was because of the mirror and him being ahead). You stop clearing the waves efficiently if you don't keep building AP too, so I'm afraid a deathcap may be in order (you had decent damage even without it thanks to the gold efficiency of passive+augment once you were around level 11, even without buying deathcap you had 2600 "bonus" gold to buy AP compared to the other guy and still 70+ AP).
But I dislike Grail, and it's shit AP for the cost. T_T Then again it's probably because of the CDR that made me burn E more when trying to poke. Q still sucks for helping last hitting when you're used to the old one.
The dps with augmented Q is pretty nice but even with his good base armour his base HP remains super bad (he's like bottom 15 at level 18) so you're really easy to burst, and a single weak slow will counteract your MS buff.
Joining the fight later to be able to spam some Qs once the cc goes down and there are less chances of you being jumped on seems to work better, since E isn't as reliable.
On the other hand, that makes him worse than champions like Ahri, Orianna, Syndra, etc. popular currently who can initiate a fight or dance around it from the start. And he's worse at poking than stuff like Lux, Xerath or Ziggs.
The range on his ult and the fact that you want to cast it early enough for it to matter also somewhat contradicts staying behind early on.
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On September 27 2014 03:15 FinestHour wrote:
hi i just got a message from opening launcher that says sorry we detected some possible data corruption in your installation would you like to repair files
do i hit ok or is this a tarp
Hit ok and cross your fingers that there aren't more sectors in your hard-drive going bad.
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On September 27 2014 02:55 Slusher wrote:
Just going to throw these interesting facts I just learned in my last game in case you were wondering, and I know you were.
-if you build Trinity force on Viktor the Q followup auto converts the sheen damage to magic.
-if the auto attack crits that portion of the damage is still magic
-however if you buy a blade the %hp damage is still physical
ad Viktor is pretty hilarious (although I'm not sure practical) because you can blast someone for 500 physical one moment then do ~700 magic the next
Viktors Base AS isn't terrible but his scaling is pretty bad. Since you're going to have to be AP mixed anyway due to the he core I don't think its reasonable to suggest he would be a good AD or bruiser.
Though if you were going to try you would have to get gunblade and probably iceborne.
Actually that is one to test what happens with the iceborne slash?
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0.625 is pretty bad actually, it's even the base AS they give marksmen they want to cast spells (Ezreal, Graves, formerly Sivir) or to counteract their massive steroids (Jinx).
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I don't actually think it's good I just thought it would be interesting to try since I could max Q if I went top, you can do a lot of fun shenanigans with Phage + Q augment but thats about the extent of it's power. If not for teambuilder giving me the you've never played this hero so we've unearthed a reanimated carcass for you to lane against I'm not sure if I could win lane with it, although going sheen > Q augment with Q max does let you take a lot of one sided trades.
Bork was a complete flop if I was to try it again I'd either go IE or start stacking pen after trinity, gunblade mayyyyybe but really I feel like it would suck just as much as bork did.
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What about something like blue viktor, with muramana (procs twice on his q!), frozen fist, frozen heart
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On September 26 2014 22:12 Alaric wrote:Na, because Sion already took E at level 4 even when AP sometimes, and it applied however you killed the unit. It's weaker than AD Sion's (since he leveled it first and got 2 HP per kill once he hit 3), and even assuming AP Sion took it and kept it at level 1, you only get 1 HP per minion killed, so in an overall game you won't catch up to current Sion's natural HP pool. He has 2275 HP at level 18 currently even without skilling E. He'll have ~1480 HP according to the PBE, which is the lowest base HP in the game by far. Even with E's passive and farming 200 cs he'll only have below average HP for a tank/bruiser. You'll have to hit super late game just to have a good "natural" HP pool, and we all know what happens to tanks' farm once the team starts grouping.
I really dislike this new design system. Instead of having stacks being a bonus of a champion that actually makes them gain an advantage over time, it's just a negative and a disadvantage in comparison to other champions that you can get rid of by killing like 300 minions, just like with Cassiopeia.
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Nasus reworked to deal 0 base damage on his Q, tristana starts melee ranged after her rework. keep the train going!
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I legit just opened the QQ thread and read about 6 posts before I realized it wasn't GD.
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Yeah, the QQ has been strong in GD lately, where the quality posts at?
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EPT
