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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
310 base damage is not "pretty high" when you are counting 2 skills, at rank 5, one of which is a 3rd skilled ability 310 damage at level 18 is nbd I'm really don't want to intrude on the Viktor thoughts because I really don't have a clue about what is good/bad on that champion or if he is buffed/nerfed but I will no accept shenanigan arguments like calling an ability poorly scaling by giving the other guy 2 abilities at level 18 | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On September 26 2014 15:42 Slusher wrote: wait so your piling his w damage into his Q damage to support the argument? I don't think you understand what the point it. Its not to say anything about strength of the abilities its simply to provide context to an item purchase decision. I could have used Morgana's Q instead (333 AP to double damage) or any number of other abilities (l could have used Lux as an example of a high base damage champion). I just picked Fizz because its an ability that is slightly similar (auto attack modifier, gets on hit effects, changes all damage to magic). It means nothing. Its just a number. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
not to sound corny but if you truly believe your point then just let the facts stand on their own. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 26 2014 16:09 Slusher wrote: except you rolled in rank 5 damage of a maxed last skill making it look like your argument was weak and you and to lie to strengthen it, something you should avoid if the strength of the ability isn't the point. its the sort of thing he's been doing forever man. just let it go and realize its not worth it to discuss anythign with him. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On September 26 2014 16:10 PrinceXizor wrote: its the sort of thing he's been doing forever man. just let it go and realize its not worth it to discuss anythign with him. This side of the argument tastes so much sweeter, wouldn't you say? | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On September 26 2014 16:09 Slusher wrote: except you rolled in rank 5 damage of a maxed last skill making it look like your argument was weak and you and to lie to strengthen it, something you should avoid if the strength of the ability isn't the point. not to sound corny but if you truly believe your point then just let the facts stand on their own. 1) Do you understand the concept of a high scaling and low scaling ability? How its not making quality judgements on the quality of the abilities, just what is an efficient itemization? 2) The higher the rank the LOWER the effective scaling. If you're playing Fizz you've got a point into W at some point(probably before you all-in). If you only ever add one point into it then, when you hit Q (when its maxed), Q will do 160 + AD + .95 AP damage. This is an amazingly low 273 AP to double damage. If you activate W which you might do Q would do 170 + AD + 1.2 AP, 225 AP to double damage! The lower the rank we keep track of for Fizz's Q the BETTER the scaling, not worse. It literally works the opposite of the grievous deception that you're claiming I've done. | ||
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droserin
127 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29904 Posts
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 26 2014 16:16 Scip wrote: This side of the argument tastes so much sweeter, wouldn't you say? nah people just hate on me. they sided with him OVER me, and he did the same shit then. people just hate me, so its fine. lol i don't give a shit. i get thats why they liek to argue against me. and try to bait me into getting banned again. but they should at least have the decency to see the flaws in an argument without actually just picking sides based on name. but yeah, don't bother talking with goum he does the same thign eveyr time, and then will act like you just don't understand what he's saying. ect. he's already doing it. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 26 2014 16:33 droserin wrote: Why are you trying to measure scaling by how much AP you need to double the base damage? Because he's making a relative comparison of "how much of the ability's damage comes from its base damage vs. scaling?" Comparing "how much AP do I need for them to provide equal contribution to the ability's damage" is a logical way to approach this. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On September 26 2014 16:23 Goumindong wrote: 1) Do you understand the concept of a high scaling and low scaling ability? How its not making quality judgements on the quality of the abilities, just what is an efficient itemization? 2) The higher the rank the LOWER the effective scaling. If you're playing Fizz you've got a point into W at some point(probably before you all-in). If you only ever add one point into it then, when you hit Q (when its maxed), Q will do 160 + AD + .95 AP damage. This is an amazingly low 273 AP to double damage. If you activate W which you might do Q would do 170 + AD + 1.2 AP, 225 AP to double damage! The lower the rank we keep track of for Fizz's Q the BETTER the scaling, not worse. It literally works the opposite of the grievous deception that you're claiming I've done. I said Fizz Q is a bad skill to use ap to double because the base damage was low and you countered with Q+W @rank5 damage, now your just trying to straw man me out of the argument. Just stop comparing 1 ability to 2 holy shit how hard is it. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On September 26 2014 16:53 Slusher wrote: I said Fizz Q is a bad skill to use ap to double because the base damage was low and you countered with Q+W @rank5 damage, now your just trying to straw man me out of the argument. Just stop comparing 1 ability to 2 holy shit how hard is it. The mother goosing point was that the base damage is comparatively low! It's not a good skill to use an an example because it's the fucking perfect skill to use as an example?! | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
On September 26 2014 16:46 PrinceXizor wrote: nah people just hate on me. they sided with him OVER me, and he did the same shit then. people just hate me, so its fine. lol i don't give a shit. i get thats why they liek to argue against me. and try to bait me into getting banned again. but they should at least have the decency to see the flaws in an argument without actually just picking sides based on name. but yeah, don't bother talking with goum he does the same thign eveyr time, and then will act like you just don't understand what he's saying. ect. he's already doing it. I cant even find where you guys have spoken about this. After goums link all you've done is post derogatory comments. Why are you playing the victim when you're doing the insulting? :D | ||
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
On September 26 2014 15:33 Slusher wrote: Given this assessment I'm surprised you still definitively put a > between KR and LCS, at this point they need OMG needs to look pretty impressive or a chinese team needs to win a game in the semis for me to give that distinction back to them. I assume you mean why I rate CN > LCS? Like I said I don't put much stock in AHQ beating EDG in a game that EDG didn't absolutely need to win. EG and Col took games from C9 and LMQ in the regular season too, that sort of thing happens. Alliance dropped one game to every team in EU LCS, and there's some truly dreadful teams in there. I still thought EDG looked miles better than AHQ and I had 0 doubts that they would win the tie-breaker, which they did. I also thought StarHorn looked better than TSM and I think even if TSM hadn't derped against SK they would have lost the tie-breaker and finished second regardless. I don't think OMG will look particularly good and might not even win a single game in their group but everyone knows they are having issues right now considering they possibly have the weakest support player at the tournament (at least if you exclude the wildcard teams). I don't think the gap between CN and LCS is big, maybe 60:40 in favour of the top CN teams over the top LCS teams. The important thing to take away from group stages is that the CN teams finished exactly as people were predicting: EDG second in A and StarHorn first in B. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 26 2014 17:07 Capped wrote: I cant even find where you guys have spoken about this. After goums link all you've done is post derogatory comments. Why are you playing the victim when you're doing the insulting? :D not really insulting when im just stating the facts. that he does this same thing over and over. if its insulting then what he's doing is wrong. Its kind of everything that GD does. if yango posts everyone nods as if he's imparting wisdom even if he's just making a joke, if alaric posts everyone tells him to stop whining even if the post isn't a whine, if i post people automatically oppose whatever stance i have on anything. GD treats people like we are a set of stock characters who cannot vary from anything. hell i'm doing it not to goum by saying he does the same thing every time. its a curse. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On September 26 2014 17:01 Goumindong wrote: The mother goosing point was that the base damage is comparatively low! It's not a good skill to use an an example because it's the fucking perfect skill to use as an example?! between this and the way the your post on the bottom of the last page is now worded, I see your point. I can agree that sorc shoes will give him some early power because his base damage is high, but I don't think I would agree with a triple pen build (if that was even the contention I don't think it was) because his augment has 168 ap on it he gets 326 ap from fullEvo/dcap/void which I'm guessing we can agree is mandatory by 6 item so from here you could either go abyssal/liandry liandry/hourglass hourglass/lich hourglass/dfg dfg/lich or even possibly a GA since it interacts well with shields, thinking about this I think I also agree lich is a trap item | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On September 26 2014 14:35 JazzVortical wrote: Another option is running CDR blues instead. Pen boots are too good to leave out IMO. Quints, quints quints, quints. For some reason I just like that word.  | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
You did math on 6 items Viktor and talked about his damage output when building Tear ffs. Of course you're not going to see all the flaws if you ignore his early and midgame. And you're going to miss out on how he doesn't fill a niche or stuff if you only look at him and not on other champions doing his stuff better. Because what's his identity now? Solcrushed tried to sell him as "adaptable" mage, but buying an augment never feels like a "big moment", and in the end they're still mostly stat sticks (and bad ones at that), they failed on that. Once I get an augment? I'd rather spend 2295 on void staff than 2000 on other augments. How's that for your price point? As for the mana allowing you to buy Ionian boots, nope. He still happens to have an actual mana cost on E, and if you rush CDR it means you want to cast more, so even for Q it's a much bigger mana consumption. (I'm running scaling CDR blues atm to test them, as I always used to run MR, and old Viktor didn't have a non-awkward timing for grail/morello while E's cooldown forced him to want CDR. Running even more oom than before as a result.) And you again only look at pretty number while ignoring any case we could make for QoL or utility. Would you still yell "wow you guys are so stupid it's an obvious buff" if Q did 50 more damage to champions in exchange for E not damaging minions? On September 26 2014 10:32 Goumindong wrote: If you agree, give me some up votes. Off the front page already due to people not understanding game  http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ldrb7F20-riotsolcrushed-comments-on-the-not-so-glorious-evolution Off the front page because if it's anything like old official GD it sometimes takes less than 10 seconds to do so (at all times it almost never took more than 30s). On September 26 2014 11:34 JazzVortical wrote: Vik's playstyle seems way different. He isn't a blow your load then back off, he can be useful in and amongst it. But that means you have to change how he is built. I feel like you want a lot of CDR (ie.maxed) on new Viktor, considering the Q functionality. 40% puts you at like 2 and half seconds for each Q. I also feel like you want greater emphasis on defensive items. E.g. He might be a decent Abyssal Scepter carrier now. I really feel like you need to be in the thick of the fights to be useful now, so you need some resists to back up your shield. You already needed to be "in the thick of fights" because R just won't follow people otherwise (and then you're forced to zhonya so it won't follow anyway). It's a bit easier to stay behind before the fight starts now because bigger AoE on ult cast and longer W range, but E won't hurt as much (at long range you can react and not eat the secondary explosion, heck as long as you're moving you'll dodge it) and to deal damage with Q you still need to be in auto range... which is 525. You don't really need to look further than people guffing all over Lichbane anyway: "ermagad I dealt 1K§§§ wiht an auto". Hint: build 400 AP and a Lichbane on Annie and Q-aa someone, you'll deal a truckload of damage too. Maybe because the initial Q from Viktor didn't do shit to make up for the ratio on the auto, uh? | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
Also rip AP sion, it was fun. Incredibly silly, but fun. edit: nvm, they've nerfed his hp/lvl a lot, the place I'd checked just hadn't updated their pbe values yet | ||
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