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United States47024 Posts
On September 07 2014 08:56 Sufficiency wrote:
Look, SKT picked up Faker and his crew and all of a sudden they are world champion in ~1 year. While Faker's talents are definitely there, his crew were just that, Korean Challenger soloQ players. SKT built this team from scratch and became a winning team.
SKT K started as a B-team for SKT after they'd picked up ESG AKA Reapered+4.
Being a B-team for an established team was a huge formative experience for SKT K, and is how a lot of successful Korean teams became as strong as they are.
EDIT: Important here is the fact that multiple teams from the same organization allowed in OGN doesn't discourage formation of strong B-teams, and in fact, things like OGN Masters actually encourage this now.
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On September 07 2014 12:00 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 11:48 iCanada wrote:
Watching that Korean Soloqueue twitch stream.
Wtf... Koreans behind like 5k gold everyone just stands in fountain. The fuck. they try to simulate real play as much as possible so they get good practice. they minimize joke games to reduce time wasted.
This is bullshit. This is like how NA/EU teams are awful at making real combacks because scrim games are canceled when they get a decent amount behind.
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its koreans, they can do w/e they want until they start losing. which i dont see happening anytime soon
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Is it just me or is Vel'koz hugely ping dependent? It seems almost impossible to land his Q properly.
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On September 07 2014 12:05 VayneAuthority wrote:
its koreans, they can do w/e they want until they start losing. which i dont see happening anytime soon
Koreans take solo queue seriously man.
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On September 07 2014 12:09 Sufficiency wrote:
Is it just me or is Vel'koz hugely ping dependent? It seems almost impossible to land his Q properly.
Well it makes sense that a champion who is built around slow moving skillshots would be hard to play with high ping.
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On September 07 2014 12:00 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 11:48 iCanada wrote:
Watching that Korean Soloqueue twitch stream.
Wtf... Koreans behind like 5k gold everyone just stands in fountain. The fuck. they try to simulate real play as much as possible so they get good practice. they minimize joke games to reduce time wasted.
Just seems like they are trolls that tilt easily to me.
Like all these games so winnable, guys just leave. I'd report them all. Visions of IdrA GGing after canceling his CC.
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LOL IDRA. That guy man. I don't know what to say about him. What a sore loser.
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On September 07 2014 12:11 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 12:00 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 07 2014 11:48 iCanada wrote:
Watching that Korean Soloqueue twitch stream.
Wtf... Koreans behind like 5k gold everyone just stands in fountain. The fuck. they try to simulate real play as much as possible so they get good practice. they minimize joke games to reduce time wasted. Just seems like they are trolls that tilt easily to me. Like all these games so winnable, guys just leave. I'd report them all. Visions of IdrA GGing after canceling his CC.
it also has to do with the fact that a lot of their players are playing from pc cafe's, so they don't want to waste time.
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On September 07 2014 12:00 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 11:48 iCanada wrote:
Watching that Korean Soloqueue twitch stream.
Wtf... Koreans behind like 5k gold everyone just stands in fountain. The fuck. they try to simulate real play as much as possible so they get good practice. they minimize joke games to reduce time wasted.
Being down gold isn't a joke game. It's being behind. Pretty sure it's because lots of them play in PC bangs so they don't want to draw out games since it's costing them money.
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On September 07 2014 11:03 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 08:56 Sufficiency wrote:On September 07 2014 08:50 PrinceXizor wrote:
LCS teams are like vultures picking the bones of the players that got popular early on in leagus history, while in korea teams seek new talent regularly. riot doesn't like a lot of roster changes as players leaving the scene may take fans with them, so the rules prevent turnover at a high rate, and everyone just takes each others scraps. to fill holes. no development of new talent happens in NA anyway, so whats the point of limiting imports if there is no NA development either way. Look, SKT picked up Faker and his crew and all of a sudden they are world champion in ~1 year. While Faker's talents are definitely there, his crew were just that, Korean Challenger soloQ players. SKT built this team from scratch and became a winning team. C9 is pretty similar to be honest. Someone assembled a team of Challenger players with very little competitive experience (what the fuck was Meteos doing before C9?) and made it the undisputed best team in NA. C9 didn't win World's (and probably never will), but C9 definitely demonstrated that NA has good players out thee. C9 was a freak accident imo, they just happen to have extremely good team chemistry. Their team individually aren't that amazing.
Sneaky, Balls and Meteos are all top 3 players at their positions.
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On September 07 2014 12:59 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 12:00 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 07 2014 11:48 iCanada wrote:
Watching that Korean Soloqueue twitch stream.
Wtf... Koreans behind like 5k gold everyone just stands in fountain. The fuck. they try to simulate real play as much as possible so they get good practice. they minimize joke games to reduce time wasted. Being down gold isn't a joke game. It's being behind. Pretty sure it's because lots of them play in PC bangs so they don't want to draw out games since it's costing them money.
5k before 20 minutes is like 80% chance to lose the game. In competitive it's like 90%.
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When C9 "appeared", Sneaky was nowhere near top3, and Meteos mostly benefited from hogging farm like crazy (Hai wasn't behind in farm because he was bad at farming like Shiptur is, it was Meteos lane taxing like crazy and never ever giving wraiths; of course "Meteos the god" or whatever people called him back then had a much higher farm than other junglers, it'd be like praising Froggen always being above his opponent when he played shit like Anivia and farmed every single wraith camp on top of that, they didn't make cs appear out of nowhere). Hai was doing alright, and Sneaky+Lemonnation picked utility botlanes.
Objectives made up for their gold and stuff because they were very often behind in lane, despite Balls' good performances. It was when they grouped, and because their dragon control was so much better than other teams, that they performed consistently (they were also better at sticking to a lead when comebacks/throws were so common, just that would have made them very consistent even if they didn't have the objective control to compensate their laning).
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On September 07 2014 13:01 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 11:03 wei2coolman wrote:On September 07 2014 08:56 Sufficiency wrote:On September 07 2014 08:50 PrinceXizor wrote:
LCS teams are like vultures picking the bones of the players that got popular early on in leagus history, while in korea teams seek new talent regularly. riot doesn't like a lot of roster changes as players leaving the scene may take fans with them, so the rules prevent turnover at a high rate, and everyone just takes each others scraps. to fill holes. no development of new talent happens in NA anyway, so whats the point of limiting imports if there is no NA development either way. Look, SKT picked up Faker and his crew and all of a sudden they are world champion in ~1 year. While Faker's talents are definitely there, his crew were just that, Korean Challenger soloQ players. SKT built this team from scratch and became a winning team. C9 is pretty similar to be honest. Someone assembled a team of Challenger players with very little competitive experience (what the fuck was Meteos doing before C9?) and made it the undisputed best team in NA. C9 didn't win World's (and probably never will), but C9 definitely demonstrated that NA has good players out thee. C9 was a freak accident imo, they just happen to have extremely good team chemistry. Their team individually aren't that amazing. Sneaky, Balls and Meteos are all top 3 players at their positions.
TSM: Dyrus, Bjerg, Lustboy, all best in position. WT is a fucking dice roll which shows up, Amazing is middle of pack.
LMQ: Ackerman (top 2-3), Noname (either a god, or retard, still not sure), XWX #2, Vasili #1, Mor is top 4.
C9: Balls (3rd, but not significantly better than 4th/5th), Meteos #1, Hai's like 5th or 6th best midlaner, LemonNation is mediocre, and Sneaky started off being the Cop of LCS, probably #2-3 now.
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I wonder what criteria all these ratings are based on.
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On September 07 2014 13:24 Ketara wrote:
I wonder what criteria all these ratings are based on.
Just general play, and observation. Not saying I would ever replace any of their players, but their individual skill just don't match up compared to how good they are as a team.
Was just trying to make some ambiguous point about how the example of c9 as "solo queue talent being successful" was not a very good example. I'm just salty we can't see calitrolz play in LCS cuz of school, and we still have players like Innox that are still in the LCS.
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On September 07 2014 13:24 Ketara wrote:
I wonder what criteria all these ratings are based on.
The only real way you can judge individuals in an engaged team game, the eye test.
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how is amazing not top junlger if tsm just got first?
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Because the series showed how inconsistent he was (same with Noname in LMQ's Bo5 against Curse). Bjergsen's Xerath hard carried a game (and played 1v9 in one of their losses), and Dyrus stepped up big when we thought he was gonna tilt and was super instrumental in two wins when he crushed lane so hard, especially game 5.
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EPT
