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Of course you have to isolate and take people one after the other as a melee champion. You can't kill them fast enough without building glass cannon, and if you do you just die when they focus you.
Only close enough things were Nasus when the meta would let him do it (and he'd prob still get smashed by Tristana/Vayne at that time) and pre-rework Jax when dodge was a thing.
Yasuo just rides his initial burst (with Shiv and BotRK) following up the cc that allowed his ult, to kill a squishy target, and then he jumps from one to another. Same with Yi who uses resets. Heck, Kha'Zix could be considered a melee carry between his ult, his low Q cd and the isolation mechanic to take people down.
"Melee carries" are basically champions able to output the damage level of an assassin, as dps.
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On September 04 2014 00:40 Anakko wrote:Oh man, am I really slow? I've been using op.gg for months and just realized they have that feature: http://www.op.gg/ranking/champions/You can search for the high ranked one-trick ponies for any champion (no lower than d5). Pretty cool stuff when you want to check out a couple replays of good [insert champion here] players.
Good catch :D Found this guy playing a lot of brand support in dia1 kr :
http://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=대만인인척해야지
always wanted to try that
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Have people forgotten about Riven already?
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
No, but he's considered melee AD caster because most of his dmg doesn't come from autoattacks
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No, but my biased hater self classify doesn't classify Riven as melee carry but bullshit. :[
You don't need autoattacks to make a carry Scip.
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Its because people are making the distinction between a "melee carry" in the sense that they are a "melee champion who does damage and can carry the game" and a "melee carry" in the sense that "they fill the same position as the current ranged auto attack carry champion within the current or some other meta". When people complain about a lack of melee carry's they're not talking about the first one, they're talking about the second.
The first one we tend to call fighters. They are very strong 1v1 and have outplay potential in larger engagements, but they're not something you build a team fight composition around. There are plenty of fighters or bruisers or assassins who are all melee attack damage focused champions which fit those niches.
The second one tends to not exist, because if such a champion existed they would be OP or worthless.. They would be OP or worthless because the melee nature of a carry means that they're naturally the first person to get focused. So in order to be successful a melee carry would have to be strong enough to overcome the fact that they were focused first in each fight. If such a champion existed and was still able to do ranged carry DPS(though the people who croon for melee carries naturally want more than ranged carry dps) they would naturally be OP. A few champions can kind of fill this niche but only if they get very far ahead.
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On September 04 2014 19:55 Goumindong wrote:
Its because people are making the distinction between a "melee carry" in the sense that they are a "melee champion who does damage and can carry the game" and a "melee carry" in the sense that "they fill the same position as the current ranged auto attack carry champion within the current or some other meta". When people complain about a lack of melee carry's they're not talking about the first one, they're talking about the second.
The first one we tend to call fighters. They are very strong 1v1 and have outplay potential in larger engagements, but they're not something you build a team fight composition around. There are plenty of fighters or bruisers or assassins who are all melee attack damage focused champions which fit those niches.
The second one tends to not exist, because if such a champion existed they would be OP or worthless.. They would be OP or worthless because the melee nature of a carry means that they're naturally the first person to get focused. So in order to be successful a melee carry would have to be strong enough to overcome the fact that they were focused first in each fight. If such a champion existed and was still able to do ranged carry DPS(though the people who croon for melee carries naturally want more than ranged carry dps) they would naturally be OP. A few champions can kind of fill this niche but only if they get very far ahead.
Tryndamere is the closest I can think of fitting what you describe as viable melee adc
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On September 04 2014 19:55 Goumindong wrote:
Its because people are making the distinction between a "melee carry" in the sense that they are a "melee champion who does damage and can carry the game" and a "melee carry" in the sense that "they fill the same position as the current ranged auto attack carry champion within the current or some other meta". When people complain about a lack of melee carry's they're not talking about the first one, they're talking about the second.
The first one we tend to call fighters. They are very strong 1v1 and have outplay potential in larger engagements, but they're not something you build a team fight composition around. There are plenty of fighters or bruisers or assassins who are all melee attack damage focused champions which fit those niches.
The second one tends to not exist, because if such a champion existed they would be OP or worthless.. They would be OP or worthless because the melee nature of a carry means that they're naturally the first person to get focused. So in order to be successful a melee carry would have to be strong enough to overcome the fact that they were focused first in each fight. If such a champion existed and was still able to do ranged carry DPS(though the people who croon for melee carries naturally want more than ranged carry dps) they would naturally be OP. A few champions can kind of fill this niche but only if they get very far ahead.
I consider the distinction you are talking about in Paragraph 1 that a Melee Carry in this context can be autoing the enemy's tanks and it not be a "waste".
I disagree with your last point because I think it would work, however the champion would have to have a Vlad-like passive. Something like: +AD > HP, + AS>MR +Crit >AR. Also the champion would obviously have an abysmal earlygame (probably have to run him 2v1 mid).
So it could work, but never will because they would never make that champion.
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You once again have the exact same problem. Either the champion is impossible to deal with because he can fight your team while being focussed due to all those free tank stats, in which case he is OP. Or he can not, in which case he is useless. A bad early might help dealing with this, but only in a way that makes sure he is basically always useless, like it does with poppy. Still not really good champion design in LoL.
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What is the point of such a champion?What does he bring that is so important to the game?To me it seems like a waste.Don't see what is so interesting about that concept.If it is strong/annoying it is just gonna get banned.
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People basically look at Dota and see melee carries there so they think that LoL doesn't already have such a champ design when in fact the way those carries are played mirrors that of a "bruisier" or "fighter" in league. The concept got to bloated and misunderstood that now no one even know what they are wanting anymore.
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They are more like fighters with the ability to be tankbusters and game changing ultimates.
It's kind of like if Jax or Olaf had a Malpite/Amumu ult to begin the active. For instance, Bizzarro Jax would Leap Strike, Ult and get aoe lock down plus free stats, or this new Olaf would Malph ult in, then have his few seconds of cc immunity.
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Itemization in dota if different, a lot of the items that you build as a carry in dota gives you higher HP/Armor in addition to damage, so you aren't really squishy and get blown up, unless the team unloads every form of CC/nuke on you and ignores the other cores on your team.
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So I got my poop pushed in by a Syndra yesterday when I picked Annie. Is that just a poor matchup for me or was I just really bad at dodging her Qs?
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It is a very bad matchup.Only way to win would be to play well with your jungler or be a god and dodge every q.Even if you do still can be hard.
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BAD MU since you need to blow your flash offensively just to have a chance at doing any damage vs a decent syndra. If you are gonna play annie i would wait until they pick yasuo or zed or something melee. she can't compete with those long range mages in mid
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Alright good, I was worried that I just suck.
Well I suck, but I was worried that I sucked more than I thought I did.
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So, the reddit detectives have been snooping around the KR server looking for bootcamping accounts. Apparently Wildturtle's is "American IMP." lol
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Prob bad match-up, Syndra is a lane bully, with a very strong single-target burst at level 6, and she outranges you hard with her spells.
Annie also doesn't like the wave being shoved on her hard, and Syndra's pretty good at doing that.
And it has nothing to do with that cLutZ wtf. Melee carries in DotA are usually characterised by very powerful survivability spells/passives, and good offensive scaling, they also tend to scale harder with levels (imagine a passive in LoL that increased your crit damage, better than an IE passive, that'd be bonkers but you still wouldn't max it first).
Take, say, Olaf, big AS steroids and AD on his ult, but also very good base stats in general ('cept for armour, but his base AS is super high). He'd potentially deal more damage than Kog or Tristana if you built him the same way, but he'd also die instantly.
The fact that crit is so widespread in LoL makes it so that the difference between 3 offensive items and 4 offensive items is way bigger than in DotA, which is more linear (it isn't litterally linear, it's a figure of speech), because it adds another multiplier and it stacks (it stacks better than in DotA too). Without IE you can easily see how marksmen's damage is lower, and it makes it more possible for melee champs to build more offensive items (try playing Triforce->BotRK Jax in the current meta and compare him to Maokai in terms of life span and impact in teamfights), meaning they're closer to what you call the "carry" status (as judged through damage output).
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i think melees are in worse spot atm because riot keeps releasing new champions with retarded amount of cc, slows on top of exhaust, look at thresh and his peel trying to get thought that as squishy melee carry is basically impossible
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EPT
