EPT[Patch 4.15] Master Tier General Discussion - Page 48
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On September 04 2014 13:11 Merlin the Tuna wrote: Her actual changes have been pretty modest. 4.13 threw in a handful of nerfs (notably to her Explosive Shot), 4.10 finally made her ult range based off of her attack range (the E started using that way back in season 3) , 4.5 buffed her starting armor, and 4.4 reduced the mana cost on Rapid Fire. Starting with 4 more armor is nice, but she really was not being held back by mana costs or ult range. The latter are buffs for sure, but they're minor to the point of basically being QoL changes. I don't think anyone was avoiding Tristana in S3 just because her massive steroid cost all of 50 mana. The single biggest change is the BT nerf. Not even because she's so good with IE (she is, but BoRK-first Tristana works well, and the Koreans even occasionally used Shiv-first Tristana) but because the heavy lane bullying associated with BT dominance has faded. But frankly, some if it is also just that she's been overlooked for a long time. It doesn't help that the mentality for a while was that you didn't even need to put a single rank in Q until you had 2 or 3 items. That's certainly a thing you can do, but it amplifies the extent to which she has a strong->weak->strong power curve, compared to putting 3-ish points in E during laning and transitioning to an earlier Q max. I imagine changes to Supports have been a factor as well, especially given how totally awful her Rocket Jump can be. I don't have a very good handle on how that's shifted over the last year though. 4.5 didn't buff her starting armour. Every champion got +4 starting armour because of the nerf to armour seals. | ||
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Merlin the Tuna
United States57 Posts
So yeah, it's basically been a bunch of QoL changes followed by some recent (minor) nerfs. Chalk it up to one part "something something meta something something" and one part the community being too dumb to notice how good she was. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On September 04 2014 13:13 GolemMadness wrote: Yi's win rate actually looks like it's the highest in gold. This can also be a function of equilibrium though. Basically if youre anywhere halfway competent as Yi in bronze you're going to leave Bronze swiftly. What is left is terrible yi's who lose. By the time you get to gold people are only picking Yi into favorable matchups, thus enabling him to have a higher overall win rate without those players climbing out since, by gold, people are generally competent enough to chain CC yi. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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miicah
Australia2470 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35162 Posts
On September 04 2014 14:00 miicah wrote: http://www.twitch.tv/livefakerstream/ has been replaced with www.twitch.tv/fakerslivestream Wonder how long it will take SKT to shut this one down too. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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Shiznick
United States2200 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
You also have to factor in all the anti-snowballing changes made at the start of Season 4. Smaller early-mid game leads (due to less early gold) means it's much much harder to punish Trist's weak midgame. The actual power of Trist and her kit has been virtually unchanged. It's more a combination of external factors that made her so strong. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
1. Completely spammable incredibly strong slow with fat % health damage for infinite chasing. 2. 30% innate tenacity 3. Fucking absurd 100% uptime AD steroid (100+ad) 4. 12 second 35% speed boost If you build him like an ADC you can fucking wreck anyone, you just use ult entirely for the speed. With a lifesteal item his steroid negates all his health costs. Pretty crazy, that steroid is just stupid. Vayne ult gives her 70 Ad when maxed, Mundo E gives up to 200 AD with 100% uptime. You basically can't run from him with the tenacity, cleavers, and ult...and your phantom dancer ofc. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
On September 04 2014 15:23 kongoline wrote: yasuo is viable melee carry Yeah just required double crit and free 50% armor pen | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
On September 04 2014 15:46 kongoline wrote: yes i know his kit is broken just to make melee carry viable just saying it exists Even then, if you have enough targetted cc you can neuter him. That just isn't the meta right now | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On September 04 2014 15:30 MattBarry wrote: Yeah just required double crit and free 50% armor pen Jax was viable for a long time this season and last. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 04 2014 15:46 kongoline wrote: yes i know his kit is broken just to make melee carry viable just saying it exists Im not entirely sure it does. Yes he is melee, and he builds carry items, but I don't know if he isn't actually an assassin/duelist. I havent really looked into Yasuo, but I say this because of something related to this: On September 04 2014 16:07 wei2coolman wrote: Jax was viable for a long time this season and last. Jax was almost never played as a melee carry when he was viable (almost 100% as a splitpush threat + post fight cleanup). I looked into this, and it is because Jax's get like 1-2 autos in during a teamfight, then if their team is winning that fight they turn that teamfight into a massacre because his chase is so good (and then he gets a few more autos in). Im not sure if the same is true for Yasuo pros, but I do feel like it is similar, and that a Yasuo that doesn't get a good ultimate off is not that frightening (all else being even). | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On September 04 2014 16:29 cLutZ wrote: Im not entirely sure it does. Yes he is melee, and he builds carry items, but I don't know if he isn't actually an assassin/duelist. I havent really looked into Yasuo, but I say this because of something related to this: Jax was almost never played as a melee carry when he was viable (almost 100% as a splitpush threat + post fight cleanup). I looked into this, and it is because Jax's get like 1-2 autos in during a teamfight, then if their team is winning that fight they turn that teamfight into a massacre because his chase is so good (and then he gets a few more autos in). Im not sure if the same is true for Yasuo pros, but I do feel like it is similar, and that a Yasuo that doesn't get a good ultimate off is not that frightening (all else being even). It depends on the build. Triforce straight into randuins or GA was usually teamfight oriented build, and to be fair to jax. 2 autos on the enemy adc with triforce proc is 80 to 90% of an adc's life, and most jax players are pretty shit. | ||
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