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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On September 02 2014 13:02 iCanada wrote: GOod news is though rito put in a thing where if you were in game you can jump queue and instantly rejoin the game. Cool. Great feature imo. Yeah, just 2v4d bots for fwotd. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
I think Riot is partially to blame considering the way they approach every problem is to nerf and ignore but damn. It's like the parent that handles every problem by giving their kid a toy and wonders why he's spoiled. It'd just be refreshing if the greater community of a place like r/leagueoflegends would be more about ways to counter the fotm instead of why it needs to get nerfed now because it's "too strong." But I guess that ultimately the fotm is determined by Riot patching so there's little incentive to figure out how to play around something. Idk, I still think it'd help the game if Riot just took like a 3 month break from patching and let the community sort the balance of the game out itself (like the way the majority of online games have worked). Sorry for the rant, on the positive end I think league is still pretty fun and I did miss playing it so props to Riot for that. The new launcher looks nice too. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On September 02 2014 23:34 overt wrote: So I took like a 6 month break from League and pretty much just played Hearthstone and Dota2 in my free time. Since coming back to League I realized that I never appreciated how much the community complains in LoL. Not that Dota or Hearth players don't complain but in League peoples first reaction to something is that it should be nerfed if they think it's "too good" and after playing Dota (where I almost never heard "nerf pls") I decided to not be one of those people. I think Riot is partially to blame considering the way they approach every problem is to nerf and ignore but damn. It's like the parent that handles every problem by giving their kid a toy and wonders why he's spoiled. It'd just be refreshing if the greater community of a place like r/leagueoflegends would be more about ways to counter the fotm instead of why it needs to get nerfed now because it's "too strong." But I guess that ultimately the fotm is determined by Riot patching so there's little incentive to figure out how to play around something. Idk, I still think it'd help the game if Riot just took like a 3 month break from patching and let the community sort the balance of the game out itself (like the way the majority of online games have worked). Sorry for the rant, on the positive end I think league is still pretty fun and I did miss playing it so props to Riot for that. The new launcher looks nice too. The problem with suggesting counters on reddit is that the mob mentality mass downvotes you because they don't like your opinion, which isn't the downvote in the first place, so people either don't see the comment or think it's a bad one. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On September 02 2014 23:36 Gahlo wrote: The problem with suggesting counters on reddit is that the mob mentality mass downvotes you because they don't like your opinion, which isn't the downvote in the first place, so people either don't see the comment or think it's a bad one. Yeah, it's a community problem but something that I noticed in Dota2's subreddit was that when a hero would come up in a thread or during the weekly hero discussion threads when someone had problems dealing with a hero there would always be a few comments about how to counter or play around the hero. I very rarely saw a single comment about 'it's too good valve needs to nerf' and commonly saw suggestions about how to play around it. I think most of this is due to IceFrog's balance approach where everything that's strong doesn't get instantly nerfed so the community is forced to address heroes that arise as too strong. It'd be nice if League worked like that too. disclaimer: I'm not trying to say the dota community is any better by the way. I got raged at/flamed/whatever just as much as I do in league. The community is just different in this one aspect. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On September 02 2014 23:47 overt wrote: Yeah, it's a community problem but something that I noticed in Dota2's subreddit was that when a hero would come up in a thread or during the weekly hero discussion threads when someone had problems dealing with a hero there would always be a few comments about how to counter or play around the hero. I very rarely saw a single comment about 'it's too good valve needs to nerf' and commonly saw suggestions about how to play around it. I think most of this is due to IceFrog's balance approach where everything that's strong doesn't get instantly nerfed so the community is forced to address heroes that arise as too strong. It'd be nice if League worked like that too. I do agree. LoL's pampered with regards to balancing. I rarely ever feel a champion needs balance changes or that the changes are good. And in DotA almost every hero if ported to LoL could cause rage. I'd argue Void has less counterplay than Rengar Prime. Edit: Also there's harder counterpicks so talking about counters makes more sense. Some heroes are ridiculously strong/weak early game. TA needs someone who has a DoT to break refraction, and PA needs someone with mkb to break evasion. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
(he's usually played Jungle?? Is that his best role? I don't know how to jungle) | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
His pre6 ganks are absolutely retarded. You press W (not a skillshot) and someone needs to Flash. Just don't W while he is close to his own tower :3 | ||
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Simberto
Germany11902 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On September 02 2014 23:56 obesechicken13 wrote: I do agree. LoL's pampered with regards to balancing. I rarely ever feel a champion needs balance changes or that the changes are good. And in DotA almost every hero if ported to LoL could cause rage. I'd argue Void has less counterplay than Rengar Prime. Edit: Also there's harder counterpicks so talking about counters makes more sense. Some heroes are ridiculously strong/weak early game. TA needs someone who has a DoT to break refraction, and PA needs someone with mkb to break evasion. Actually think your edit is a misconception. Laning is a lot more important in league and a lot more isolated so they tends to be more "hard counters" or counterpicks in league than in Dota. The only lane that really has counter picking is Mid and even then in most cases you can still try form a stall lane or get enough out of it to be effective later. Your example is also not 100% correct as you don't need DoTs to deal with TA nor do you need MKBs to deal with PA, they merely help. It's too late now for Riot to try fix the communities mentality. I also think they don't really want to. Constantly patching the strong is a lot easier than creating an ecosystem where it's healthy enough for the community to deal with the strong. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
There's a thread in the srategy section, but it's basically flask or dring start, 1-2 dring if necessary into straight RoA, followed by Frozen Heart or Spiritual Visage depending on lane opponent and enemy composition. Mana and CDR are really good on him (mana is a bit less important since his ult's duration has been capped) and since he's often either deep in the enemy backline or standing between the frontlines FH's aura is really good on him. Max R > Q > W > E, with an early point in E to farm from range. You can max E instead (or at least put more points into it) against annoying ranged match-ups (like Lulu) to farm more easily if they try to zone you. Learn to weave autoattacks in between your combos to maximise passive usage, since getting it off even twice in a teamfight (3-4 isn't that rare) is almost 15% more survivability. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On September 03 2014 00:10 Alaric wrote: Na, junglers usually benefit more from farm and need to be able to clear well (and generally be damage-oriented, which helps with taking early dragons (Kha'Zix/Elise can solo it, Nautilus needs at least 3 people to take it... )), he's being played top atm because with level 6+ and enough farm he becomes a juggernaut who can initiate, and who reliably creates a lot of space for your backline in teamfights. There's a thread in the srategy section, but it's basically flask or dring start, 1-2 dring if necessary into straight RoA, followed by Frozen Heart or Spiritual Visage depending on lane opponent and enemy composition. Mana and CDR are really good on him (mana is a bit less important since his ult's duration has been capped) and since he's often either deep in the enemy backline or standing between the frontlines FH's aura is really good on him. Max R > Q > W > E, with an early point in E to farm from range. You can max E instead (or at least put more points into it) against annoying ranged match-ups (like Lulu) to farm more easily if they try to zone you. Learn to weave autoattacks in between your combos to maximise passive usage, since getting it off even twice in a teamfight (3-4 isn't that rare) is almost 15% more survivability. So both Alistar and Maokai are played top? | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On September 03 2014 00:09 Numy wrote: Actually think your edit is a misconception. Laning is a lot more important in league and a lot more isolated so they tends to be more "hard counters" or counterpicks in league than in Dota. The only lane that really has counter picking is Mid and even then in most cases you can still try form a stall lane or get enough out of it to be effective later. Your example is also not 100% correct as you don't need DoTs to deal with TA nor do you need MKBs to deal with PA, they merely help. It's too late now for Riot to try fix the communities mentality. I also think they don't really want to. Constantly patching the strong is a lot easier than creating an ecosystem where it's healthy enough for the community to deal with the strong. Ok. I'm not that good at DotA so that's just my amateur view. I do often hear you're supposed to counter heroes by shutting them down in DotA. I disagree on how easy it is to shut people down in LoL. I think it's far easier to not die in LoL and dying is less of a big deal due to bounties and death penalties. In addition I find it's much easier to get experience in LoL due to lack of denial and more gold due to predictable tower aggro and easier csing under tower. Maybe you're talking about the pro level whereas I'm talking about pubs? I find laning to be rather isolated in pubs even with TPs. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 03 2014 00:59 obesechicken13 wrote: Ok. I'm not that good at DotA so that's just my amateur view. I do often hear you're supposed to counter heroes by shutting them down in DotA. I disagree on how easy it is to shut people down in LoL. I think it's far easier to not die in LoL and dying is less of a big deal due to bounties and death penalties. In addition I find it's much easier to get experience in LoL due to lack of denial and more gold due to predictable tower aggro and easier csing under tower. Maybe you're talking about the pro level whereas I'm talking about pubs? I find laning to be rather isolated in pubs even with TPs. in league, every character scales with levels AND gold in terms of damage and survival xp leads are mostly negligible, as they only tend to matter for a single fight. catchup xp is a thing in league and you tend to reach the same level as everyone very quickly. unless you are spending more time dead than alive. diminishing returns for continuing to kill someone also don't help as you are actually punished for repeatedly removing a players ability to farm. its more effective in terms of denying farm to actually just zone someone out rather than kill them. its odd that the most rewarding strategy is also the least interactive when it comes to trying to shut down a player. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
On September 03 2014 01:21 GrandInquisitor wrote: New experiment -- I'm going to start building Sightstone after my Spirit item on every non-glass cannon jungler from now on. Good / bad idea? Aren't the Spirit items usually getting finished around the time the lanes break that first tower or two and people start to roam? It seems smart to have an item that builds health for the more tanky/bruiser junglers that also allows you to start your vision pressure. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On September 03 2014 00:59 obesechicken13 wrote: Ok. I'm not that good at DotA so that's just my amateur view. I do often hear you're supposed to counter heroes by shutting them down in DotA. I disagree on how easy it is to shut people down in LoL. I think it's far easier to not die in LoL and dying is less of a big deal due to bounties and death penalties. In addition I find it's much easier to get experience in LoL due to lack of denial and more gold due to predictable tower aggro and easier csing under tower. Maybe you're talking about the pro level whereas I'm talking about pubs? I find laning to be rather isolated in pubs even with TPs. Dying is actually really punishing in League. It's partly due to how isolated it is and partly due to the way scaling works. If you get behind in league chances are you'll always be behind the curve for the rest of the game unless your team does something to catch you up. In dota the differing power curves and big items like BKB means that there may be a point in the game that you will be more powerful than the person that's "ahead" of you purely due to the hero disparity. As for dying it's interesting. The lack of losing gold on death both helps and hurts you in league. Say in dota you get killed early that gives him an level lead but then your teammates help you by ganking him. It's possible he'll lose more gold than you did which could put you in a better position than you were in before he killed you. The same isn't really true in league. If you kill him at best you putting the lane back at even and at worst you need a few more kills on him to reach that point due to how big a advantage he got. All of this is refering to pubs here, pro play is a lot better at capitalizing on advantages and stalling leads too. | ||
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IamPryda
United States1186 Posts
On September 03 2014 01:21 GrandInquisitor wrote: New experiment -- I'm going to start building Sightstone after my Spirit item on every non-glass cannon jungler from now on. Good / bad idea? Wards in solo q are Like giving a blind person a flashlight. I tried going sight stone nunu against and eve and even though her wraiths and wolves were warded all game people would ignore the fact that she was walking right to there lane to kill them and then ask me nunu why u no gank ever gg noob. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Being a full level behind on champions more reliant on exp than farm (for example steroids) can be more crippling than items before the first major one is completed, in the 1v1 lanes. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On September 03 2014 01:51 Alaric wrote: I don't know how it is in DotA, but in LoL it's often (especially in the off lane) less about the gold and more about the exp. Die against a burst champion and allow him to reach 6 first (with a trip to the shopping mall in-between) and you're pretty much guaranteed to die to the all-in. Even without the item lead someone like Riven can do that easily. Being a full level behind on champions more reliant on exp than farm (for example steroids) can be more crippling than items before the first major one is completed, in the 1v1 lanes. Happened to me other day. Talon gets a gank before I'm 6 then he hits 6 so every time I come back in lane he just all ins and forces me back. I cried a little inside that game  | ||
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