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On July 16 2014 13:44 ZataN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 13:07 FinestHour wrote:
its ok u just have to itemize all of your gold and masteries and rune page into 40% cdr and do no right click damage compared to other ads
but clearly its all worth cuz u have a free dash that requires you to right click someone with 500 range whereupon the instant you try to trigger your passive to get the dash you're gonna get nuked by their ap mid dived by bruiser tank and right clicked down by the other ad who isnt 500 range Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 13:06 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2014 12:11 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 16 2014 12:09 sharky246 wrote:RIP lucian is the first thing in my mind, the split second i saw: ATTACK RANGE 550 ⇒ 500 now just a shittier version of quinn. More like crappy Graves IMO No defense steroid, worse burst But he can dash with no cd! TL-GD hyperbole OP. EDIT: Im going to sound like a dick but making the title "RIP Lucian" doesn't help all the people knee jerk reacting. I know you're joking but people are pretty bad with jokes about balance changes.
like it's been mentioned before:
kennen, 25 range change, stopped seeing play until they made his ult free energy cost.
this was ranged vs melee matchups too..., not even ranged vs ranged matchup.
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On July 16 2014 13:44 ZataN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 13:07 FinestHour wrote:
its ok u just have to itemize all of your gold and masteries and rune page into 40% cdr and do no right click damage compared to other ads
but clearly its all worth cuz u have a free dash that requires you to right click someone with 500 range whereupon the instant you try to trigger your passive to get the dash you're gonna get nuked by their ap mid dived by bruiser tank and right clicked down by the other ad who isnt 500 range Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 13:06 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2014 12:11 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 16 2014 12:09 sharky246 wrote:RIP lucian is the first thing in my mind, the split second i saw: ATTACK RANGE 550 ⇒ 500 now just a shittier version of quinn. More like crappy Graves IMO No defense steroid, worse burst But he can dash with no cd! TL-GD hyperbole OP. EDIT: Im going to sound like a dick but making the title "RIP Lucian" doesn't help all the people knee jerk reacting. I know you're joking but people are pretty bad with jokes about balance changes.
I'm sorry, but that is a total mischaracterization of TLGD. Firstly, we just laughed at a Lucian "nerf" just a few weeks ago. Secondly, these threads are more typically plagued with rampant optimism about random champions such as Quinn, Viktor, or Sejuani than by those who incorrectly predict major changes will affect a champion. Moreover, there is a second large batch of persons who insist that other champions need no buffs, but instead are misunderstood by pros, or merely "non meta" Olaf seems to be the new hotness of this group, but I saw quite a bit of Cho Gath recently when they made quill coat.
Plus, like, what was the last major range change that worked out? This is historically a blind spot for Riot balancing, much like mobility and manless champions/items that mitigate mana conservation.
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On July 16 2014 13:44 ZataN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 13:07 FinestHour wrote:
its ok u just have to itemize all of your gold and masteries and rune page into 40% cdr and do no right click damage compared to other ads
but clearly its all worth cuz u have a free dash that requires you to right click someone with 500 range whereupon the instant you try to trigger your passive to get the dash you're gonna get nuked by their ap mid dived by bruiser tank and right clicked down by the other ad who isnt 500 range Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 13:06 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2014 12:11 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 16 2014 12:09 sharky246 wrote:RIP lucian is the first thing in my mind, the split second i saw: ATTACK RANGE 550 ⇒ 500 now just a shittier version of quinn. More like crappy Graves IMO No defense steroid, worse burst But he can dash with no cd! TL-GD hyperbole OP. EDIT: Im going to sound like a dick but making the title "RIP Lucian" doesn't help all the people knee jerk reacting. I know you're joking but people are pretty bad with jokes about balance changes.
Lucian is almost a strictly worse Sivir now.
He has slightly more damage and maybe more mobility, but way less utility. I don't see the point of picking a 500 range damage oriented AD carry when you can pick a 600+ range AD carry that does the same or more damage.
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On July 16 2014 14:35 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 13:44 ZataN wrote:On July 16 2014 13:07 FinestHour wrote:
its ok u just have to itemize all of your gold and masteries and rune page into 40% cdr and do no right click damage compared to other ads
but clearly its all worth cuz u have a free dash that requires you to right click someone with 500 range whereupon the instant you try to trigger your passive to get the dash you're gonna get nuked by their ap mid dived by bruiser tank and right clicked down by the other ad who isnt 500 range On July 16 2014 13:06 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2014 12:11 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 16 2014 12:09 sharky246 wrote:RIP lucian is the first thing in my mind, the split second i saw: ATTACK RANGE 550 ⇒ 500 now just a shittier version of quinn. More like crappy Graves IMO No defense steroid, worse burst But he can dash with no cd! TL-GD hyperbole OP. EDIT: Im going to sound like a dick but making the title "RIP Lucian" doesn't help all the people knee jerk reacting. I know you're joking but people are pretty bad with jokes about balance changes. I'm sorry, but that is a total mischaracterization of TLGD. Firstly, we just laughed at a Lucian "nerf" just a few weeks ago. Secondly, these threads are more typically plagued with rampant optimism about random champions such as Quinn, Viktor, or Sejuani than by those who incorrectly predict major changes will affect a champion. Moreover, there is a second large batch of persons who insist that other champions need no buffs, but instead are misunderstood by pros, or merely "non meta" Olaf seems to be the new hotness of this group, but I saw quite a bit of Cho Gath recently when they made quill coat. Plus, like, what was the last major range change that worked out? This is historically a blind spot for Riot balancing, much like mobility and manless champions/items that mitigate mana conservation.
Ryze's mostly worked out fine. They nerfed the range on all 3 of his spells, then gave back some of the range on his Q and he became a FotM top laner.
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On July 16 2014 14:18 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 13:44 ZataN wrote:On July 16 2014 13:07 FinestHour wrote:
its ok u just have to itemize all of your gold and masteries and rune page into 40% cdr and do no right click damage compared to other ads
but clearly its all worth cuz u have a free dash that requires you to right click someone with 500 range whereupon the instant you try to trigger your passive to get the dash you're gonna get nuked by their ap mid dived by bruiser tank and right clicked down by the other ad who isnt 500 range On July 16 2014 13:06 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2014 12:11 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 16 2014 12:09 sharky246 wrote:RIP lucian is the first thing in my mind, the split second i saw: ATTACK RANGE 550 ⇒ 500 now just a shittier version of quinn. More like crappy Graves IMO No defense steroid, worse burst But he can dash with no cd! TL-GD hyperbole OP. EDIT: Im going to sound like a dick but making the title "RIP Lucian" doesn't help all the people knee jerk reacting. I know you're joking but people are pretty bad with jokes about balance changes. like it's been mentioned before: kennen, 25 range change, stopped seeing play until they made his ult free energy cost. this was ranged vs melee matchups too..., not even ranged vs ranged matchup.
Didn't the kennen range change coincide with the Dorans shield changes?
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On July 16 2014 09:43 Anakko wrote:
If you delete enough champions, then you didn't delete any champion! Riot is a den of geniuses. Seriously though, watching dota2 and seeing thoses 6 sec amumu sized aoe disables makes me wonder what could have been of LoL if they chose a different balance philosophy
Dota draft phase(or an adaptation more suited to LoL) and buffing of underutilized shit(mostly utility+some numbers) is what I want. TI4 had 76 different picks in 36 games on the first day. LoL Superweek 7(EU+NA) had 45 in 32 games, and even including the patch cycle throughout spring split, we've only hit 59 in NA LCS. Pretty fucking sad.
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On July 16 2014 14:51 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 14:18 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2014 13:44 ZataN wrote:On July 16 2014 13:07 FinestHour wrote:
its ok u just have to itemize all of your gold and masteries and rune page into 40% cdr and do no right click damage compared to other ads
but clearly its all worth cuz u have a free dash that requires you to right click someone with 500 range whereupon the instant you try to trigger your passive to get the dash you're gonna get nuked by their ap mid dived by bruiser tank and right clicked down by the other ad who isnt 500 range On July 16 2014 13:06 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2014 12:11 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 16 2014 12:09 sharky246 wrote:RIP lucian is the first thing in my mind, the split second i saw: ATTACK RANGE 550 ⇒ 500 now just a shittier version of quinn. More like crappy Graves IMO No defense steroid, worse burst But he can dash with no cd! TL-GD hyperbole OP. EDIT: Im going to sound like a dick but making the title "RIP Lucian" doesn't help all the people knee jerk reacting. I know you're joking but people are pretty bad with jokes about balance changes. like it's been mentioned before: kennen, 25 range change, stopped seeing play until they made his ult free energy cost. this was ranged vs melee matchups too..., not even ranged vs ranged matchup. Didn't the kennen range change coincide with the Dorans shield changes?
dshield patch was 9-10 patch cycles after kennen range changes
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On July 16 2014 14:50 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 14:35 cLutZ wrote:On July 16 2014 13:44 ZataN wrote:On July 16 2014 13:07 FinestHour wrote:
its ok u just have to itemize all of your gold and masteries and rune page into 40% cdr and do no right click damage compared to other ads
but clearly its all worth cuz u have a free dash that requires you to right click someone with 500 range whereupon the instant you try to trigger your passive to get the dash you're gonna get nuked by their ap mid dived by bruiser tank and right clicked down by the other ad who isnt 500 range On July 16 2014 13:06 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2014 12:11 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 16 2014 12:09 sharky246 wrote:RIP lucian is the first thing in my mind, the split second i saw: ATTACK RANGE 550 ⇒ 500 now just a shittier version of quinn. More like crappy Graves IMO No defense steroid, worse burst But he can dash with no cd! TL-GD hyperbole OP. EDIT: Im going to sound like a dick but making the title "RIP Lucian" doesn't help all the people knee jerk reacting. I know you're joking but people are pretty bad with jokes about balance changes. I'm sorry, but that is a total mischaracterization of TLGD. Firstly, we just laughed at a Lucian "nerf" just a few weeks ago. Secondly, these threads are more typically plagued with rampant optimism about random champions such as Quinn, Viktor, or Sejuani than by those who incorrectly predict major changes will affect a champion. Moreover, there is a second large batch of persons who insist that other champions need no buffs, but instead are misunderstood by pros, or merely "non meta" Olaf seems to be the new hotness of this group, but I saw quite a bit of Cho Gath recently when they made quill coat. Plus, like, what was the last major range change that worked out? This is historically a blind spot for Riot balancing, much like mobility and manless champions/items that mitigate mana conservation. Ryze's mostly worked out fine. They nerfed the range on all 3 of his spells, then gave back some of the range on his Q and he became a FotM top laner.
they had to give him a significant ult mobility buff, a pretty big hp buff, and partially revert the range nerf before he was played again.
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On July 16 2014 14:18 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 13:44 ZataN wrote:On July 16 2014 13:07 FinestHour wrote:
its ok u just have to itemize all of your gold and masteries and rune page into 40% cdr and do no right click damage compared to other ads
but clearly its all worth cuz u have a free dash that requires you to right click someone with 500 range whereupon the instant you try to trigger your passive to get the dash you're gonna get nuked by their ap mid dived by bruiser tank and right clicked down by the other ad who isnt 500 range On July 16 2014 13:06 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2014 12:11 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 16 2014 12:09 sharky246 wrote:RIP lucian is the first thing in my mind, the split second i saw: ATTACK RANGE 550 ⇒ 500 now just a shittier version of quinn. More like crappy Graves IMO No defense steroid, worse burst But he can dash with no cd! TL-GD hyperbole OP. EDIT: Im going to sound like a dick but making the title "RIP Lucian" doesn't help all the people knee jerk reacting. I know you're joking but people are pretty bad with jokes about balance changes. like it's been mentioned before: kennen, 25 range change, stopped seeing play until they made his ult free energy cost. this was ranged vs melee matchups too..., not even ranged vs ranged matchup.
100% sure if you gave him 25 range and made his ult cost energy again he'd never get touched.
25 range wouldnt kill him, obnoxious ass energy costs would
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I really like the Vel'Koz adjustment. Not splitting at death is annoying..
I find it incredibly frustrating that Riot is giving Ahri a buff. Not that I think she didn't need it, but why can't Brand or Malz or Viktor or whoever else get a .1 ratio increase (or small buff)? What's the harm? Ahri was 1st pick status a year ago, sees the odd pick nowadays every now and then. Just smacks of Riot ignorance. Other champs literally could use small buffs like what she got, and they are in much worse states than her. So frustrating.
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new ahri skin inthe works obivously
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Lucian main here. The only time I ever use E offensively is during all-in situations which doesn't really happen often in bot lane due to all the heals and exhausts and Morgana/Nami being so prevalent. Laning phase is more about chipping down your opponent with Q through minions until you can secure the kill with an all-in. With the nerf to his auto and Q range, that's going to be hard. I can see Lucian being really strong top because of his range and kiting ability but going ham in a 2v2+ fight with e is more often than not unrewarding.
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I mean, *technically* his level 3 all in is now stronger then before.
You can now e-aa-q-aa-w-aa-aa-e-aa, getting an extra double proc without breaking stride, and his base damage + hp are now higher then before.
Also no mention of whether it's just the cast range, or the actual hit/damaging range of q which is reduced, as far as i can tell it's damage range is still the same, the targeting range is just even shorter.
At least at lower elo's I feel he's still going to be pretty strong just because people don't know how to not get all inned on in bot lane, and if anything his strength in those situations is even higher then before. He's pretty fucked anywhere where people know how to poke though~
Also I'm getting these beautiful visions of blue build lucian with iceborn just kiting the everliving fuck out of some poor sad udyr
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No yasuo nerf... I want to cry ... Also kha'zix Q changed again rofl. How many times did they change that ?
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I don't like the Ahri change, mana costs were literally a non issue. You could rush DFG and not worry about mana with Ahri....
Would have preferred increased base damage with slight mana increase.
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I never understood the Lucian whines tbh
After BT changes I didnt see him winning a fight vs graves/draven during laning phase and I definetely didnt see him hard carrying an even matchup compared to trist/cait/kog/jinx.
His itemization was already awkward as fuck, sad to see riot didnt delay the nerf a bit and see what the new Essense Reaver would do to him. Ah well
Back to sivir baby
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On July 16 2014 16:27 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
Lucian main here. The only time I ever use E offensively is during all-in situations which doesn't really happen often in bot lane due to all the heals and exhausts and Morgana/Nami being so prevalent. Laning phase is more about chipping down your opponent with Q through minions until you can secure the kill with an all-in. With the nerf to his auto and Q range, that's going to be hard. I can see Lucian being really strong top because of his range and kiting ability but going ham in a 2v2+ fight with e is more often than not unrewarding.
I don't agree with this playstyle against Tristana. I have a hard time outtrading lucian if he just Q auto W auto's me. All I can do back is auto E auto and if I'm maxing W then that's no where near the same amount of damage. Lucian's trade burst is high.
To make the trade even Tristana has to W in, and if the W misses due to flash or E, or the minions on Lucian's side start hitting Trist, then the all-in fails. I think Lucian's lane burst is high compared to other ADC, kind of like graves, so he should abuse that instead of poking with Q.
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Meh, just did some quick math on Ahri number changes. It's hardly a buff in late game. At 500 AP (DFG+Void+DC+Dring+masteries+runes), it's only a 25 damage change... okay, more like 35 if you want to include damage amplification from DFG+charm.
Her mana costs weren't really an issue in laning either... She might be a bit of a farm oppressive mid in early game though with this mana change, maybe rush morello and just spam clear waves with Q all day?
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That's what I mentioned, it's not about the damage, it's about how liberal she can already be with her Q early game considering its base damage, especially pre-6 where it's easy for her to keep pushing unless she's against some shit like Ziggs (who's more likely to run oom if he spams Q because lower cd and if he plays brainless like a bunch of them his Q won't hit all 6 minions while Ahri's can easily, resulting in less damage to the wave till he gets chalice to support mindless spam), and thus to fish for Charms.
It won't change much post-6, or maybe before objectives and during blue buff downtime it'll be easier for her to clear a wave then group with the rest of the team, but it's mainly pre-6 for wave control and safety till she gets her ult.
On July 16 2014 09:46 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 09:43 Anakko wrote:
If you delete enough champions, then you didn't delete any champion! Riot is a den of geniuses. Seriously though, watching dota2 and seeing thoses 6 sec amumu sized aoe disables makes me wonder what could have been of LoL if they chose a different balance philosophy Then we'd have crappier looking dota without a good spectators client, replay client, and functioning servers.
Dunno, they often complain about "steam network" on LD. 
On July 16 2014 10:15 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 08:31 MooMooMugi wrote:
So.... Kog & Trist are untouched but Lucian is getting nerfed, makes sense. Trist isn't problematic at all. This is the first time she's seeing serious play in like two years. Her mid game still sucks balls and once teams get better at exploiting that I doubt she'll be that dominant. Besides, it's not like she's that dominant right now anyways. Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 10:14 sob3k wrote:
Would Lucian top be strong now?
He now has hypermobility and almost immunity to slows, seems like a kit tailor made to make toplaners cry. Ranged top laners not named Kayle or Lulu haven't really been a thing since like...season 2. I also can't remember the last time a pro team played an AD carry top since Westrice played Vayne in S1 Championships (although I'm sure it's happened at least once since then - Kennen doesn't count.)
Who was the offlaner in Velocity's extreme splitpush comp?
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On July 16 2014 17:14 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 16:27 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
Lucian main here. The only time I ever use E offensively is during all-in situations which doesn't really happen often in bot lane due to all the heals and exhausts and Morgana/Nami being so prevalent. Laning phase is more about chipping down your opponent with Q through minions until you can secure the kill with an all-in. With the nerf to his auto and Q range, that's going to be hard. I can see Lucian being really strong top because of his range and kiting ability but going ham in a 2v2+ fight with e is more often than not unrewarding. I don't agree with this playstyle against Tristana. I have a hard time outtrading lucian if he just Q auto W auto's me. All I can do back is auto E auto and if I'm maxing W then that's no where near the same amount of damage. Lucian's trade burst is high. To make the trade even Tristana has to W in, and if the W misses due to flash or E, or the minions on Lucian's side start hitting Trist, then the all-in fails. I think Lucian's lane burst is high compared to other ADC, kind of like graves, so he should abuse that instead of poking with Q.
Couple points - I dont feel like you should ever max W early on as trist. Lots of Lucians early game damage comes from his passive - back off when its up, unless he decides to freeze the lane (impossible since hes spamming Q isnt he?) hes going to have to shoot it at minions. If you manage to sidestep his Q then hes down a fuck ton of mana. If hes spamming W just to harrass then he WILL be out of mana. If you support is letting him run up to you and Q auto W auto then your support is either bad, or non-existence. Trist's early game dominance isnt the fact that she can hurr-durr all in pre 6 and expect kills - its her E being press-and-forget, then go back farming minions. She can easily do a lot of unchecked harrass when other ADCs have to reply by either hitting skillshots (dodgable), or chase you and auto attack, which will pull minion aggro. In lucians case, this is both. Its why Lucian doesnt have a good time fighting graves - graves buckshot is shoot-and-forget, while his smoke screen prevents Lucian's reply damage from coming through effectively.
Her unchecked damage is even further amplified if they are using any form of healing - pots, nami, or summoner spells.
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EPT
