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50 range is more than 10% of his advantage over melee champions. It's also the difference between Ashe and the standard, or Sivir and the standard.
You can already really feel the difference between Viktor/Orianna and other mages when you try to auto harass (they're both 525 range), so yeah, you're going to feel the 500 range, unless you're trying to harass someone with bad base AS (I'd say Graves because he has wind-up and bad base AS, but only 525 range) while abusing his last-hitting, at least in lane.
On July 16 2014 23:43 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 23:29 Uldridge wrote:
People complaining about range nerfs are just so delusional it's hurting. Like, how perfect do you know howmuch 550 range WAS, like you were always last hitting/fighting/skirmishing at the max range of the champ. And it's not like 50 range is THAT much anyway. It does become a little more painful, ofcourse, but with his high mobility it certainly shouldn't hurt Lucian too much.
There's a setting that adds a range indicator to a-moving. When I'm on ADC I use it all the time.
How's it named? I don't think I have it on and I'm sure it'd help me.
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50 range is enough that they can poke you with a free auto whenever you last hit ranged creeps. That also means that you cannot poke them back when they last hit ranged creeps because they will return fire before you walk 50 units away.
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Pretty sure the 500 range did not kill Sivir.
Not sure why all of you are tunneling on this.
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On July 17 2014 00:14 Sufficiency wrote:
Pretty sure the 500 range did not kill Sivir.
Not sure why all of you are tunneling on this.
Sivir's kit is also designed with her short range in mind.
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Maybe Lucian's new passive is also designed with his range in mind
What a shocker.
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On July 16 2014 23:50 Alaric wrote:50 range is more than 10% of his advantage over melee champions. It's also the difference between Ashe and the standard, or Sivir and the standard. You can already really feel the difference between Viktor/Orianna and other mages when you try to auto harass (they're both 525 range), so yeah, you're going to feel the 500 range, unless you're trying to harass someone with bad base AS (I'd say Graves because he has wind-up and bad base AS, but only 525 range) while abusing his last-hitting, at least in lane. Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 23:43 Gahlo wrote:On July 16 2014 23:29 Uldridge wrote:
People complaining about range nerfs are just so delusional it's hurting. Like, how perfect do you know howmuch 550 range WAS, like you were always last hitting/fighting/skirmishing at the max range of the champ. And it's not like 50 range is THAT much anyway. It does become a little more painful, ofcourse, but with his high mobility it certainly shouldn't hurt Lucian too much.
There's a setting that adds a range indicator to a-moving. When I'm on ADC I use it all the time. How's it named? I don't think I have it on and I'm sure it'd help me.
Interface > Ability and Attack Display > Show attack range.
On July 17 2014 00:17 Sufficiency wrote:
Maybe Lucian's new passive is also designed with his range in mind
What a shocker.
Lucian's passive didn't change.
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with his new dash I think his short range is something that can be overcome.
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On July 17 2014 00:14 Sufficiency wrote:
Pretty sure the 500 range did not kill Sivir.
Not sure why all of you are tunneling on this.
We'll have to see. Sivir offers a lot to the team in terms of waveclear and utility. She was run in those diving/speed comps a lot and when that got nerfed she fell off petty hard. Karma kind of overlapped with her though when spellthiefs was buffed so that may have hurt her as well. Lucian doesn't really offer any of that to the team so he's more about raw damage/mobility which falls into Vaynes territory. Don't know if he can duel like vayne can later, if he can maybe he'll be ok. He'll most likely fall into what Quinn fell into, a top laner who can shut down melees in 1v1 and has good splitpushing. Although Lucian splitpushing isn't as good as Quinns either.
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On July 17 2014 00:14 Sufficiency wrote:
Pretty sure the 500 range did not kill Sivir.
Not sure why all of you are tunneling on this.
I dunno when was last time you saw a sivir?Seems pretty dead to me.
People are tunneling because they realize it is a big deal lol.
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Most short ranged marksmen have an ability they max first to poke/farm with from a distance given enough mana. Both Sivir and Lucian (Graves?) have a strong Q in lane.
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On July 17 2014 00:28 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 00:14 Sufficiency wrote:
Pretty sure the 500 range did not kill Sivir.
Not sure why all of you are tunneling on this. I dunno when was last time you saw a sivir?Seems pretty dead to me. People are tunneling because they realize it is a big deal lol.
before they nerfed her q and w for no real good reason other than "she was a viable adc in competitive play"
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I do wonder why they can nerf Obama so close to worlds but not Lee Sin or Elise lol.
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On July 17 2014 00:17 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 23:50 Alaric wrote:50 range is more than 10% of his advantage over melee champions. It's also the difference between Ashe and the standard, or Sivir and the standard. You can already really feel the difference between Viktor/Orianna and other mages when you try to auto harass (they're both 525 range), so yeah, you're going to feel the 500 range, unless you're trying to harass someone with bad base AS (I'd say Graves because he has wind-up and bad base AS, but only 525 range) while abusing his last-hitting, at least in lane. On July 16 2014 23:43 Gahlo wrote:On July 16 2014 23:29 Uldridge wrote:
People complaining about range nerfs are just so delusional it's hurting. Like, how perfect do you know howmuch 550 range WAS, like you were always last hitting/fighting/skirmishing at the max range of the champ. And it's not like 50 range is THAT much anyway. It does become a little more painful, ofcourse, but with his high mobility it certainly shouldn't hurt Lucian too much.
There's a setting that adds a range indicator to a-moving. When I'm on ADC I use it all the time. How's it named? I don't think I have it on and I'm sure it'd help me. Interface > Ability and Attack Display > Show attack range. Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 00:17 Sufficiency wrote:
Maybe Lucian's new passive is also designed with his range in mind
What a shocker. Lucian's passive didn't change.
Here we go.
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United States47024 Posts
Sivir never even had more than 500 range, so I don't know where that example comes from. She was designed/balanced at 425 range before being scaled UP to 500 range and subsequently remade.
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On July 17 2014 00:28 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 00:14 Sufficiency wrote:
Pretty sure the 500 range did not kill Sivir.
Not sure why all of you are tunneling on this. I dunno when was last time you saw a sivir?Seems pretty dead to me. People are tunneling because they realize it is a big deal lol.
Sivir was often picked in competitive until her W was nerfed, her range stayed the same.
I have this strange feeling that range has nothing to do with her decline in popularity and power.
What a surprise. For a second I thought Sivir disappeared because her range is 500.
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On July 17 2014 00:47 TheYango wrote:
Sivir never even had more than 500 range, so I don't know where that example comes from. She was designed/balanced at 425 range before being scaled UP to 500 range and subsequently remade.
Sivir is an example of an adc with 500 range and still be viable. It depends on the kit as a whole, not just auto range.
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On July 17 2014 00:48 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 00:28 nafta wrote:On July 17 2014 00:14 Sufficiency wrote:
Pretty sure the 500 range did not kill Sivir.
Not sure why all of you are tunneling on this. I dunno when was last time you saw a sivir?Seems pretty dead to me. People are tunneling because they realize it is a big deal lol. Sivir was often picked in competitive until her W was nerfed, her range stayed the same. I have this strange feeling that range has nothing to do with her decline in popularity and power. What a surprise. For a second I thought Sivir disappeared because her range is 500.
Yes she actually did.She was picked for her utility and now when ad champs need to do damage and nobody cares about utility she isn't played.It actually makes perfect sense you just talk using your ass.
Instead of pretending like 500 range is irrelevant why dont you go in a game try to play a 2v2 lane and then come back to tell us how he can be a good top and maybe mid laner so we can agree.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 17 2014 00:50 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 00:47 TheYango wrote:
Sivir never even had more than 500 range, so I don't know where that example comes from. She was designed/balanced at 425 range before being scaled UP to 500 range and subsequently remade. Sivir is an example of an adc with 500 range and still be viable. It depends on the kit as a whole, not just auto range.
I don't think people are saying Lucian can't be viable.
The problem with a range change is now unpredictable the result of the change can be. This is because of how the nature of a range change hits EVERY phase of the game. Reducing/increasing a champion's attack/ability ranges affects how they lane, gank, teamfight, EVERYTHING. It becomes hard to predict the end result of the change because of how every aspect of their gameplay is affected. Comparatively, changes to mana costs, base damages/stats, ratios, etc. tend to be much more focused, and much easier to tune the changes to the exact level they want.
It's true that a range change won't gut Lucian for certain--but the end result is uncertain, and an uncertain change this close to Worlds isn't really desirable. The most likely outcome is that given the comprehensive nature of Lucian's changes, Riot probably will have to re-tune Lucian again at some point, and there's not enough time to do this safely before Worlds.
As a matter of policy, I think it would make more sense to do a more focused change prior to Worlds, followed by the more unpredictable changes afterwards at the end of the season.
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On July 17 2014 00:51 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 00:48 Sufficiency wrote:On July 17 2014 00:28 nafta wrote:On July 17 2014 00:14 Sufficiency wrote:
Pretty sure the 500 range did not kill Sivir.
Not sure why all of you are tunneling on this. I dunno when was last time you saw a sivir?Seems pretty dead to me. People are tunneling because they realize it is a big deal lol. Sivir was often picked in competitive until her W was nerfed, her range stayed the same. I have this strange feeling that range has nothing to do with her decline in popularity and power. What a surprise. For a second I thought Sivir disappeared because her range is 500. Yes she actually did.She was picked for her utility and now when ad champs need to do damage and nobody cares about utility she isn't played.It actually makes perfect sense you just talk using your ass. Instead of pretending like 500 range is irrelevant why dont you go in a game try to play a 2v2 lane and then come back to tell us how he can be a good top and maybe mid laner so we can agree.
Did I ever claim 500 range is irrelevant?
I claim you cannot just lookat the range nerf without other aspects of his kit.
For example Gahlo does not even know what else about Lucian got changed.
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On July 17 2014 00:50 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 00:47 TheYango wrote:
Sivir never even had more than 500 range, so I don't know where that example comes from. She was designed/balanced at 425 range before being scaled UP to 500 range and subsequently remade. Sivir is an example of an adc with 500 range and still be viable. It depends on the kit as a whole, not just auto range.
Yes, and Morgana is a viable utility mage with a bind and no long range spells, that doesn't mean Lux fans want her ult to be changed to an aoe centered on her toon instead of what it is.
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EPT
