EPThttp://www.esl.eu/de/player/5297810/
Just saying, let's not get too personal here, right?
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[Patch 4.10] Nidalee/Skarner Rework General Discussion - P…
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
http://www.esl.eu/de/player/5297810/ Just saying, let's not get too personal here, right? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:25 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: http://www.esl.eu/de/player/5297810/ Just saying, let's not get too personal here, right? im in hospital with 5th degree ricochet burns | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
Like, honestly, I mean that. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Also I'm sold to spellthief Lulu. Wtf that thing does so much damage, and you get so much gold for hitting people which is compounded by the fact that the stacks make your trading so strong people don't want to retaliate to begin with, it's like instead of losing 75% of my mana and my pots to put someone low I do it for free and I even get a ton of gold for it. I was so wrong all this time, not being as tanky doesn't mean crap if they're dead anyway. On June 29 2014 22:15 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I think I would legitimately diagnose half of this forum with a personality disorder Myself included, of course Only half? Wouldn't that be under average? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
assuming hex+lw damage items you have about 200 AD Q does ~400 physical damage E does ~1000 physical damage ignite does ~400 true damage sunfire will tick for about ~100 damage R does 525+40% of missing hp assuming 50 mr thats 350+~25% missing hp @2k max hp your ult kills at ~700 hp + ~125 per 500 hp that means with R+ignite up you kill at around 1.2k hp after damage against targets with somethign like 100 armour before penetration and 50 mr you're doing about 1k damage with Q E and sunfire so you can 1 combo anyone squishy, its a bit harder if they heal before you ignite or they have supports around but you have a team too. with tanks with like 200 armour 100 mr and 3k hp you have to wait till about 1500 hpish to combo them but its not bad | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:43 Slayer91 wrote: quick parse of garens level 18 damage assuming hex+lw damage items you have about 200 AD Q does ~400 physical damage E does ~1000 physical damage ignite does ~400 true damage sunfire will tick for about ~100 damage R does 525+40% of missing hp assuming 50 mr thats 350+~25% missing hp @2k max hp your ult kills at ~700 hp + ~125 per 500 hp that means with R+ignite up you kill at around 1.2k hp after damage against targets with somethign like 100 armour before penetration and 50 mr you're doing about 1k damage with Q E and sunfire so you can 1 combo anyone squishy, its a bit harder if they heal before you ignite or they have supports around but you have a team too. with tanks with like 200 armour 100 mr and 3k hp you have to wait till about 1500 hpish to combo them but its not bad Yeah, I've done this math too. Garen's carried me this season. Always assuming someone has flat mr runes, or scaling mr from levels, or both, we can deduce that Garen's ult hits breakpoints at 250, 450, and 650 life. So I've just been ulting around these points for the kill. Suprisingly, the bonus healthpool tankier champions have counteracts their bonus mr so the breakpoints are fairly accurate for all champions who didn't build mr, and almost no one will build MR vs Garen in lane. I think doing the math for Hexdrinker + LW comes too late, you want to do it for the level 11 timing when you get your first item, your level 6 when you want to all in for the first time, and when you get your second item. Items like Hydra are imo better in lane than sunfire since it builds out of better components and has lifesteal and regen for extended laning sessions where you can't back. Hydra can also be used during Garen's E. Most importantly, if you're against a Tryn or Fiora, If you trade you can still lifesteal back just like they do which you can't with a chain vest. Hexdrinker is better(?) vs magic damage users but you're more often going to face AD tops and I don't usually build hexdrinker if I was against an AD top and the game goes late. Assuming you don't have Hexdrinker or LW, your full combo isn't enough to kill a squishy around level 13 so you need allied help, but in my experience, you're usually able to squeeze in a number of autos and a second Q for it under the right conditions. | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4123 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:51 obesechicken13 wrote: Yeah, I've done this math too. Garen's carried me this season. Always assuming someone has flat mr runes, or scaling mr from levels, or both, we can deduce that Garen's ult hits breakpoints at 250, 450, and 650 life. So I've just been ulting around these points for the kill. I think doing the math for Hexdrinker + LW comes too late, you want to do it for the level 11 timing when you get your first item, your level 6 when you want to all in for the first time, and when you get your second item. Items like Hydra are imo better in lane than sunfire since it builds out of better components and has lifesteal and regen for extended laning sessions where you can't back. Hydra can also be used during Garen's E. Hexdrinker is better vs magic damage users but you're more often going to face AD tops and I don't usually build hexdrinker if I was against an AD top and the game goes late. Assuming you don't have Hexdrinker or LW, your full combo isn't enough to kill a squishy around level 13 so you need allied help, but in my experience, you're usually able to squeeze in a number of autos and a second Q for it under the right conditions. chicken pls this was following a discussion about garens lategame damage learn to read plss level 6 and 11 timings are lane phase only where you can easily test what your burst damage is, the only difficult test is when to use your ult and you have pretty good approximations there already. hydra is probaby total shit wtf sunfire makes you super tanky and gives you good damage because you get to stand in range with them a lot in lane and later on you're going to either have too many damage items on a tank champion or have no armour penetration and be shitty when you can't find a squishy the build up for sunfire is also much better and not being able to die to ganks is a huge plus especially when you're buying an item that pushes a lot. buying hydra also decreases your ability to win the lane because you just auto push allowing him to farm at tower if he's behind and kill you easier if he's ahead. Sunfire pushes when you are ahead but it makes you more able to afford pushing because you can survive ganks and giants/chain vest are both very useful for winning the lane phase. if you buy sunfire and then hexdrinker (for vs magic damage after lane phase) you won't have a problem with damage at level 13 especially since said squishy is either ap carry with no armour runes or AD/support which are probably level 10-11 im clocking it at around ~1400-1700 depending on if ignite is up so should be more than enough | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 29 2014 22:56 Slayer91 wrote: chicken pls this was following a discussion about garens lategame damage learn to read plss level 6 and 11 timings are lane phase only where you can easily test what your burst damage is, the only difficult test is when to use your ult and you have pretty good approximations there already. hydra is probaby total shit wtf sunfire makes you super tanky and gives you good damage because you get to stand in range with them a lot in lane and later on you're going to either have too many damage items on a tank champion or have no armour penetration and be shitty when you can't find a squishy the build up for sunfire is also much better and not being able to die to ganks is a huge plus especially when you're buying an item that pushes a lot. buying hydra also decreases your ability to win the lane because you just auto push allowing him to farm at tower if he's behind and kill you easier if he's ahead. Sunfire pushes when you are ahead but it makes you more able to afford pushing because you can survive ganks and giants/chain vest are both very useful for winning the lane phase. It's not like there was a page long discussion on just Garen's late game. I can discuss his laning if I want and it's especially important considering most games are decided before you're level 18 with 2 offensive items on Garen. You can build Sunfire if you want. I find sometimes lifesteal is too hard to fight after a certain point. Sunfire's definitely not bad if your opponent isn't going to get lifesteal and is an AD champ imo. I know I do a lot of nonmeta shit, but I really think hydra's fine, so if you don't think that, it's fine. No changing your mind. Also learn to capitalize plss. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On June 29 2014 23:05 obesechicken13 wrote: It's not like there was a page long discussion on just Garen's late game. I can discuss his laning if I want and it's especially important considering most games are decided before you're level 18 with 2 offensive items on Garen. You can build Sunfire if you want. I find sometimes lifesteal is too hard to fight after a certain point. Sunfire's definitely not bad if your opponent isn't going to get lifesteal and is an AD champ imo. I know I do a lot of nonmeta shit, but I really think hydra's fine, so if you don't think that, it's fine. No changing your mind. Also learn to capitalize plss. well i quoted a post that criticized his lategame where i contended that point in particular and then I made a follow up post showing the numbers to back that up and then you criticize me for not talking about his lane phase???? who exactly are you fighting that can outlifesteal your damage the point is by the time you finish an item like sunfire or hydra you can kill them in 2 combos anyway and they cant outlifesteal your sunfire tick damage. if they can outlifesteal your damage then buying more lifesteal doesnt actually help. Lifesteal is only going to be useful if you are in a situation where you are getting somehow outtraded by someone with long cooldowns (because with even trades you have the trump card of silence+ult+ignite) and even then I don't think 8% lifesteal will make a difference, you'll get more sustain out of your passive+some hp pots +chain vest thinking something is fine is a pretty worthless result, its not really about opinions its about what's effective and what isn't and it depends a ton on lane matchups, I can't think of any that I will win with hydra and lose with sunfire (physical damage ones anyway) and sunfire is probably better to have for all other reasons I mean maybe hydra might be the best anti squishy item using the active using spin so you might be on to something there. BC and LW are both anti tank and just brutalizer isn't going to make a big difference for armour penetration anyway | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 29 2014 06:31 Volband wrote: Help me out here, because I had a game where I had no idea what to do with our advantage. It was a platinum game, so let's say the average skill level was plat 3. We were: Sona, Kassadin, Fizz, Vi, Draven They were: Leona, Kha6, Nasus, Skarner, Kog The game was a cluterfuck for a long time, because the 3 assassins kept getting kills everywhere, and everyone just kep dying in random places. Kha6 was fed, he was our biggest foe, but we were stronger in an actual 5v5. We had baron, were trying to siege 2nd mid turret, but they just had too good waveclear and we were just standing there. Eventually someone snapped, got dragegd by skarner, Vi initiated back, and we lost the fight miserably. But before the fight, I knew it would end something like this, but I had zero idea what else could we do with 2 assassins. If we rotate to bot or top, they just follow us . We had no reliable splitpusher; maybe Kass with teleport, they had Nasus with tele, so yeah, it felt like a stalemate. This is going to sound crazy but, Ohmwrecker. You don't have siege; you need it to turn off inhib turrets so you can start a dive or get enough damage to open the gates On June 29 2014 12:06 Gahlo wrote: It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to beat people 2-3 divisions above the one I'm trying to get into. Only for the first couple set of promo's. Afterwards its really easy to get into the sets even if you're not 2-3 divisions above due to the way that MMR balancing of LP gains works. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
i dont think 2.5s will be enough your team comp was just really bad later on so you have to try to just catch kog or you're gonna lose probably d oing barons and dragons is the best bet and just sieging to deny them freefarm on sidelanes they can only engage with skarner flash ult but other than that they get killed too fast by draven so they have to wait for you guys to make a mistake | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
viva la riot actually i shouldnt assume its a drophack but its likely. It isn't the one where the game disappears but rather a bunch of people get the firewall message from the get go but the game actually plays out and you lose a 5v3 or 4v2 or something. been getting more common lately | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
i guess its fair though because i got obesechicken warned for diagnosing my salinity | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Too bad it's a legendary, means we prob won't have others later.  | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On June 30 2014 01:56 VayneAuthority wrote: yo i just got a 1 day ban because i got drophacked so many times that the leaves added up viva la riot That is pretty impressive if true.Are you sure they count since the match doesn't count in your history while just leaving gives you a leave in match history? | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On June 30 2014 02:04 nafta wrote: That is pretty impressive if true.Are you sure they count since the match doesn't count in your history while just leaving gives you a leave in match history? yea i updated the post, im assuming its a new drophack though not sure what else it could be. It's not the original one where game disappears. game shows up on history. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22238 Posts
On June 30 2014 01:56 VayneAuthority wrote: yo i just got a 1 day ban because i got drophacked so many times that the leaves added up viva la riot actually i shouldnt assume its a drophack but its likely. It isn't the one where the game disappears but rather a bunch of people get the firewall message from the get go but the game actually plays out and you lose a 5v3 or 4v2 or something. been getting more common lately not true. A drophack means the game never happened and as such can not cause a leave. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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