• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:38
CEST 17:38
KST 00:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Ro4 Preview: Storied Rivals6Code S RO12 Preview: Maru, Trigger, Rogue, NightMare12Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, sOs, Reynor, Solar15[ASL19] Ro8 Preview: Unyielding3Official Ladder Map Pool Update (April 28, 2025)17
Community News
Dark to begin military service on May 13th (2025)2Weekly Cups (May 5-11): New 2v2 Champs1Maru & Rogue GSL RO12 interviews: "I think the pressure really got to [trigger]"5Code S Season 1 - Maru & Rogue advance to RO80Code S Season 1 - Cure & Reynor advance to RO84
StarCraft 2
General
Dark to begin military service on May 13th (2025) Map Pool Suggestion: Throwback ERA How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? I hope balance council is prepping final balance 2024/25 Off-Season Roster Moves
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S:Season 1 - RO12 - Group B Monday Nights Weeklies Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 1 - RO12 - Group A $1,250 WardiTV May [May 6th-May 18th]
Strategy
[G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed Mutation # 470 Certain Demise
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL19] Ro4 Preview: Storied Rivals Battlenet Game Lobby Simulator Twitch StarCraft Holiday Bash (UMS) Artosis vs Ogre Zerg [The Legend Continues]
Tourneys
[ASL19] Semifinal A [ASL19] Ro8 Day 4 BSL Nation Wars 2 - Grand Finals - Saturday 21:00 [USBL Spring 2025] Groups cast
Strategy
[G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player Creating a full chart of Zerg builds [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
What do you want from future RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Grand Theft Auto VI Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Books] Wool by Hugh Howey Surprisingly good films/Hidden Gems
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Why 5v5 Games Keep Us Hooked…
TrAiDoS
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
BW PvZ Balance hypothetic…
Vasoline73
Test Entry for subject
xumakis
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12829 users

[Patch 4.10] Nidalee/Skarner Rework General Discussion - P…

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 93 94 95 96 97 104 Next
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
June 29 2014 19:20 GMT
#1881
On June 30 2014 04:18 cLutZ wrote:
When did theorycrafting become derogatory? Am I old? Do people not even know about the ElitistJerks forums?


LoL determines the use of everything associated with it, no matter where it came from. Them's the rules.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35118 Posts
June 29 2014 19:21 GMT
#1882
On June 30 2014 04:20 red_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2014 04:18 cLutZ wrote:
When did theorycrafting become derogatory? Am I old? Do people not even know about the ElitistJerks forums?


LoL determines the use of everything associated with it, no matter where it came from. Them's the rules.

LoL ruined "proc" for me.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
June 29 2014 19:22 GMT
#1883
On June 30 2014 04:20 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2014 04:13 Slayer91 wrote:
On June 30 2014 04:09 Gahlo wrote:
On June 30 2014 04:03 Slayer91 wrote:
On June 30 2014 03:17 obesechicken13 wrote:
On June 30 2014 02:16 Scip wrote:
On June 30 2014 02:00 Slayer91 wrote:
i just got a warning because princexizor most likely reported me LOL
i guess its fair though because i got obesechicken warned for diagnosing my salinity

Someone read that entire fucking exchange and thought that that was the post that crossed the line? HAHAHAHA

That was totally worth it.
I wanted to report you for being a shit poster but didn't see the option other than low quality post history so refrained. At least I think I did.

On June 29 2014 22:23 Slayer91 wrote:
On June 28 2014 10:30 PrinceXizor wrote:
On June 28 2014 10:25 wei2coolman wrote:
On June 28 2014 10:21 PrinceXizor wrote:
On June 28 2014 10:15 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
Nah, that was the same sentiment in the entire history of LoL. Twitch is just a tank buster.
[quote]
this sounds like the Rengar complaint.
Where's the TL outcry that Garen is stupidly op'd and wants Riot to nerf the living shit out of him?

he's one of the few champions with a fair established and unique power curve, hard to be mad at him for being good at his speciality and little else. when rengar insta kills someone they typically continue to do so all game, and when they get tanky they can continue to be as effective all game due to his scaling. garen peaks and then falls off.

Garen hardly falls off, he scales great into lategame, the difference is his scaling turns into how tanky he can get, as opposed damage.

and pure tankyness with little else isn't exactly very strong in the late game. you need damage in the late game. having almost no damage in the late game makes him more irrelevant than other characters that can be tanky and deal damage. thats why he trails off. yeah he gets tankier than everyone, but he doesn't DO much outside of that tankyness. no lockdown, no disables except a melee range silence and little damage.

a theoretical champion that never dies except to towers/baron and only deals 100 melee dps with all his abilities and has no other form of utility isn't going to DO anything for your team.in the late game.he'll be useful early because the damage is equivalent to others at the time and he's not going to die. mid game similar things, the early team fights he's still a threat to the squishies who are forced to act around him, but once they get say a GA or something to kite them with defensive stats, they aren't going to be worried much, because they can win the 5v4 and then ignore you late.

garens late game is about maximizing his silence and being scary looking, whether or not thats enough to be better than other tanky champions depends on the value you put on his silence compared to everything they can do.

when you pick garen you are picking him knowing he falls off late compared to his early and mid game power. if you pick him expecting him to scale into the late game just as strong relatively as he is in the early and mid game, then you are making a mistake drafting him.


holy shit is someone talking about garen and not one of you knows what the fuck you are talking about

chicken pls this was following a discussion about garens lategame damage learn to read plss

You're one of the worst posters I've ever seen just because of how confrontational you can be even though your points are valid.

If it were up to me I'd permaban you but I doubt it'd matter. You'd just make another account.


1: does anyone contest the point that nobody who was talking about garen had actually played with or as garen consistently enough to draw a conclusion? Seemed like terrible theorycrafting to me. Saying garen does nothing lategame is what people were saying back in 2011
2: being confrnotational is not necessarily a bad thing when it comes to discussion because if im polite and sensitive everyone will just assume im agreeing with them
it also takes extra effort to protect the egos of people who i believe are posting nonsense

1) Isn't that the point of theorycrafting? The fact that it's threory? I didn't read the theorycrafting, and I'm not saying it was good, but isn't it more productive to go "This theory crafting is bad, I have practical experience, and here is how things are." Instead of coming into the conversation going "Do you even rift?"

2) That just sounds to me like you aren't very adept at disagreeing without being disagreeable.


theorycrafting is sort of a derogatory term for badly constructed theory from a shallow viewpoint. I provided solid analysis as to why I disagreed with the points, the fact that im being arguably overly aggressive I suppose is a personal choice but its an internet forum and I don't personally like to read boring posts so I try to spice things up

personally I view "you guys don't know what your talking about" as an introductory statement that explains the rest of my post, I guess its technically ad hominem but it explains clearly that I disagreed with most of what was said and not specific details

Pls, I thought you didn't believe in derogatory terms.


I do but its all about context and intent also.

On June 30 2014 04:18 cLutZ wrote:
When did theorycrafting become derogatory? Am I old? Do people not even know about the ElitistJerks forums?


elitist jerks did it properly though, so it was just theory i guess, i dunno its getting to be semantics at this point.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35118 Posts
June 29 2014 19:24 GMT
#1884
EJ was all about the mathcraft, yo.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19573 Posts
June 29 2014 19:25 GMT
#1885
People at least understand that 'craft' comes from the suffix of Warcraft right? Right?
Freeeeeeedom
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35118 Posts
June 29 2014 19:28 GMT
#1886
On June 30 2014 04:25 cLutZ wrote:
People at least understand that 'craft' comes from the suffix of Warcraft right? Right?

I always assumed it was because you were using the theory or math to create an idea.
Fildun
Profile Joined December 2012
Netherlands4122 Posts
June 29 2014 19:36 GMT
#1887
On June 30 2014 04:00 Scip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2014 03:56 Fildun wrote:
On June 30 2014 03:24 Scip wrote:
Says the person who shamelessly vomited mental diarrhea into my Skarner thread breaking the rules I set for that thread, ending with an epic twitch meme.

This isn't relevant at all and you know that as much as I do. You could maybe tell us what you think of Teut as a poster but this is just pointless crap.

If you're salty about him shitting up your thread that's fine but that hasn't got anything to do with his opinions about Teut.

If he wants to call out this forum's moderation for being lenient he should probably look at his own posts first

Why would that be.
I mean I hear this quite often but I never get the whole "you gotta do it good yourself before you can criticize others" mentality.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35118 Posts
June 29 2014 19:38 GMT
#1888
On June 30 2014 04:36 Fildun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2014 04:00 Scip wrote:
On June 30 2014 03:56 Fildun wrote:
On June 30 2014 03:24 Scip wrote:
Says the person who shamelessly vomited mental diarrhea into my Skarner thread breaking the rules I set for that thread, ending with an epic twitch meme.

This isn't relevant at all and you know that as much as I do. You could maybe tell us what you think of Teut as a poster but this is just pointless crap.

If you're salty about him shitting up your thread that's fine but that hasn't got anything to do with his opinions about Teut.

If he wants to call out this forum's moderation for being lenient he should probably look at his own posts first

Why would that be.
I mean I hear this quite often but I never get the whole "you gotta do it good yourself before you can criticize others" mentality.

Nobody like authority that doesn't follow it's own rules.
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
June 29 2014 19:46 GMT
#1889
THE TROLL WITH THE BIGGEST CLUB BECOMES KING THATS THE RULES
I come in for the scraps
Fildun
Profile Joined December 2012
Netherlands4122 Posts
June 29 2014 19:47 GMT
#1890
Obesechicken's post was dumb and counter-productive but Scip's was even worse.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 19:54:17
June 29 2014 19:50 GMT
#1891
i think your posts are counter-productive. What's wrong with getting your issues with people out in the open? much better than being passive aggressive and shit

On June 30 2014 04:36 Fildun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2014 04:00 Scip wrote:
On June 30 2014 03:56 Fildun wrote:
On June 30 2014 03:24 Scip wrote:
Says the person who shamelessly vomited mental diarrhea into my Skarner thread breaking the rules I set for that thread, ending with an epic twitch meme.

This isn't relevant at all and you know that as much as I do. You could maybe tell us what you think of Teut as a poster but this is just pointless crap.

If you're salty about him shitting up your thread that's fine but that hasn't got anything to do with his opinions about Teut.

If he wants to call out this forum's moderation for being lenient he should probably look at his own posts first

Why would that be.
I mean I hear this quite often but I never get the whole "you gotta do it good yourself before you can criticize others" mentality.


when you're suggesting that one person is banned and the other is a shitposter then it would make sense to examine the posts of the person accusing
if that person is himself a shit poster we could then discard his opinions but if he is an esteemed and respected member of the community who smokes a pipe and wears a grey haired wig so he seems super wise maybe it's best to at least give some thought to it
Fildun
Profile Joined December 2012
Netherlands4122 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 19:58:12
June 29 2014 19:55 GMT
#1892
It's one of the easiest ways to kill discussion immediately.

Edit: No, it would make sense to actually examine the freaking accusation instead of immediately playing the man.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
June 29 2014 19:59 GMT
#1893
On June 30 2014 04:55 Fildun wrote:
It's one of the easiest ways to kill discussion immediately.

Edit: No, it would make sense to actually examine the freaking accusation instead of immediately playing the man.


the accusation was that scip was a shit poster
being a highly subjective term then it makes sense to examine both.
also i dont see what discussion it killed, it created a discussion, clearly obese chicken wasn't acutally going to respond to any of my points since he agreed that they were valid
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
June 29 2014 20:04 GMT
#1894
i am pretty sure that all of you guys are literally mussolini
TL+ Member
Fildun
Profile Joined December 2012
Netherlands4122 Posts
June 29 2014 20:06 GMT
#1895
On June 30 2014 04:59 Slayer91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2014 04:55 Fildun wrote:
It's one of the easiest ways to kill discussion immediately.

Edit: No, it would make sense to actually examine the freaking accusation instead of immediately playing the man.


the accusation was that scip was a shit poster
being a highly subjective term then it makes sense to examine both.
also i dont see what discussion it killed, it created a discussion, clearly obese chicken wasn't acutally going to respond to any of my points since he agreed that they were valid

I believe his accusation was that you were overly aggressive when stating your valid points. Seeing that the response was a personal attack, yes, discussion was indeed killed.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
June 29 2014 20:09 GMT
#1896
On June 30 2014 04:59 Slayer91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2014 04:55 Fildun wrote:
It's one of the easiest ways to kill discussion immediately.

Edit: No, it would make sense to actually examine the freaking accusation instead of immediately playing the man.


the accusation was that scip was a shit poster
being a highly subjective term then it makes sense to examine both.
also i dont see what discussion it killed, it created a discussion, clearly obese chicken wasn't acutally going to respond to any of my points since he agreed that they were valid

Nah, I misquoted. I was calling you a shit poster. Not scip.

I don't respond to your points because I think you're an asshole and not worth really talking to or getting angry over. Like I can argue that sunfire cape's build path isn't good even though you say it is. What'll come from that? You'll just say no and say all my points are stupid.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Mafab
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Germany458 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 20:16:53
June 29 2014 20:16 GMT
#1897
On June 29 2014 22:09 Slayer91 wrote:
so i havent been reading recently and it looks like things have gotten out of hand withotu me to call them bad
so far from what i gather skimming the last few pages

gahlo: mad cause bad
px: mad cause bad
zerg_russian: DID I TELL ANYONE I HAVE A PSYCH DEGREE YET????

HURR DURR GUISE THE SYSTEM DOESNT EXACTLY GIVE ME MY TRUE SKILL LEVEL THE IMAGINARY NUMBERS ASSIGNED TO ME ARENT HIGH ENOUGH RITO PLS

oh, need to update
px: mad cause bad and is a terrible victim of society which irrationally hates him and argues with him despite his superior intelligence and well argued points
if px was a woman he'd be a be a raging feminazi for sure

User was warned for this post

That statement earned you TL+
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 20:49:21
June 29 2014 20:43 GMT
#1898
On June 30 2014 05:09 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2014 04:59 Slayer91 wrote:
On June 30 2014 04:55 Fildun wrote:
It's one of the easiest ways to kill discussion immediately.

Edit: No, it would make sense to actually examine the freaking accusation instead of immediately playing the man.


the accusation was that scip was a shit poster
being a highly subjective term then it makes sense to examine both.
also i dont see what discussion it killed, it created a discussion, clearly obese chicken wasn't acutally going to respond to any of my points since he agreed that they were valid

Nah, I misquoted. I was calling you a shit poster. Not scip.

I don't respond to your points because I think you're an asshole and not worth really talking to or getting angry over. Like I can argue that sunfire cape's build path isn't good even though you say it is. What'll come from that? You'll just say no and say all my points are stupid.


you're being pretty cynical, you're arguing against imaginary me and not making any points and then complain when i don't respect your arguments without making any points
a bit self defeating isnt it
also a convenient self-fulfilling prophecy

i mean if you can't prove that you're right to if not me, someone else, then maybe you are either really bad or arguing or wrong. The thing about being wrong is that you have to change your views and your personal way of playing which you like because it was your ideas and having to use someone elses ideas doesn't feel good, especially if you hate that guy.

i bet zerg russian would consider this some sort of self defense mechanism

i mean i used to like going damage items and thought sunfire was shit but trial and error proved that sunfire was the best and i had to accept the cold hard truth
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
June 29 2014 20:51 GMT
#1899
On June 30 2014 04:36 Fildun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2014 04:00 Scip wrote:
On June 30 2014 03:56 Fildun wrote:
On June 30 2014 03:24 Scip wrote:
Says the person who shamelessly vomited mental diarrhea into my Skarner thread breaking the rules I set for that thread, ending with an epic twitch meme.

This isn't relevant at all and you know that as much as I do. You could maybe tell us what you think of Teut as a poster but this is just pointless crap.

If you're salty about him shitting up your thread that's fine but that hasn't got anything to do with his opinions about Teut.

If he wants to call out this forum's moderation for being lenient he should probably look at his own posts first

Why would that be.
I mean I hear this quite often but I never get the whole "you gotta do it good yourself before you can criticize others" mentality.

"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Jesus started it.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-29 21:01:57
June 29 2014 21:01 GMT
#1900
On June 30 2014 04:18 cLutZ wrote:
When did theorycrafting become derogatory? Am I old? Do people not even know about the ElitistJerks forums?


since the cancerous League community ruined it. Theorycraft came from WC/BW strategy discussion on these forums, then everyone just ruined it, like "meta" and "mechanics".
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Prev 1 93 94 95 96 97 104 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 22m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech81
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 8252
Rain 4794
Stork 1005
Flash 918
actioN 799
Mini 558
Hyuk 456
PianO 235
Hyun 69
Mong 65
[ Show more ]
HiyA 54
Aegong 43
sSak 42
Terrorterran 33
Movie 30
hero 29
Rock 24
Sexy 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
zelot 7
Hm[arnc] 7
Noble 6
Stormgate
TKL 57
Dota 2
Dendi2246
syndereN836
Counter-Strike
fl0m2713
byalli207
FunKaTv 64
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor259
Other Games
singsing3176
B2W.Neo1359
XBOCT614
Lowko581
crisheroes362
XcaliburYe265
Liquid`VortiX195
Fuzer 186
ceh9176
ArmadaUGS142
KnowMe66
Trikslyr48
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL63706
StarCraft 2
ESL.tv120
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 11
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3017
League of Legends
• Nemesis4544
• Jankos1207
• TFBlade714
Other Games
• Shiphtur41
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 22m
Replay Cast
18h 22m
Afreeca Starleague
18h 22m
Snow vs Soulkey
WardiTV Invitational
19h 22m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 8h
GSL Code S
1d 17h
ByuN vs Rogue
herO vs Cure
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
Classic vs Reynor
GuMiho vs Maru
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
GSL Code S
3 days
OSC
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
SOOP
5 days
Online Event
5 days
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Nation Wars Season 2
PiG Sty Festival 6.0
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
2025 GSL S1
Heroes 10 EU
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

NPSL S3
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
DreamHack Dallas 2025
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.