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[Patch 4.10] Nidalee/Skarner Rework General Discussion - P…

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Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
June 26 2014 18:25 GMT
#1521
They're trying to enforce IE,PD,LW,BT,Scimitar itemization by making BT clearly the strongest lategame AD item
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35144 Posts
June 26 2014 18:25 GMT
#1522
On June 27 2014 03:24 xes wrote:
I wonder if Riven's passive and Bloodthirster passive will stack convergently

u wot m8?

I think all % increases on AD and AP are additive.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 26 2014 18:27 GMT
#1523
I think they just want to make lategame BT as good as 1 item timing BT, so this was their way of doing it.

Cuz the usual 4-item was PD/BT/LW/IE. They probably felt that the nerf to BT hurt this late game timing, so they wanted to adjust it so it became relevant again.

I should have separated my riven statement, I didn't mean it as a direct problem, just a fringe case of where BT can be insanely powerful on a champion due to their build.
liftlift > tsm
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-26 18:30:08
June 26 2014 18:27 GMT
#1524
no they are going to buff adc while nerfing every bruiser + their items and bring back s2 all over again ...
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
June 26 2014 18:32 GMT
#1525
i'm not entirely sure adc is in a great place at the moment with the new 4.10 changes but it's hard to tell given how recent the changes have been
Bronze player stuck in platinum
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
June 26 2014 18:33 GMT
#1526
On June 27 2014 02:28 ghrur wrote:
Vayne is the best. Don't hate on Vayne.

Vayne is who you play when you are diamond against gold, not the opposite.
Freeeeeeedom
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-26 18:37:58
June 26 2014 18:35 GMT
#1527
On June 27 2014 03:27 kongoline wrote:
no they are going to buff adc while nerfing every bruiser + their items and bring back s2 all over again ...

you w0t m8?

If this change goes through, the end game build from like 4.9 to PBE BT, is like 15AD total in endgame for most ADC builds?

IE/BT/LW/PD?

+8 bonus AD from IE +8 Bonus from BT +4B bonus from LW +10 from IE buff +2 bonus from runes/masteries.

As compared to the +20 to old BT?

On June 27 2014 03:32 Nos- wrote:
i'm not entirely sure adc is in a great place at the moment with the new 4.10 changes but it's hard to tell given how recent the changes have been

Well right now with 4.10, Twitch and Kog are easily tier-1 ADC's.
In competitive, I could definitely see most ADC's consider it a nerf, since the 1 item timing is so important in competitive, and having them delay that timing so significantly, and having it be overall weaker is pretty damn painful.
In solo queue it probably doesn't matter as much, since people don't group til like 3 items.
liftlift > tsm
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-26 18:50:15
June 26 2014 18:44 GMT
#1528
u forget that bortk, IE,berserker,scimitar got buffed too while omen got nerfed, also bigger midgame relevance means its a lot easier to get fed as adc and hit 6item where u outscale pretty much everyone
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
June 26 2014 18:50 GMT
#1529
On June 27 2014 03:24 xes wrote:
I wonder if Riven's passive and Bloodthirster passive will stack convergently


You mean divergently, and the answer is no, they will not. This is both because riot isn't close to making divergent stacking bonuses and because Riven's passive doesn't increase bonus attack damage

To make things simple in order for these types of things to diverge the series of bonuses has to not converge to zero. In order for that to happen the difference equation of the series has to have a total coefficient equal to or greater than 1*. If i recall my difference equations correctly.

If you combined BT and Zed's passive you get a total coefficient of .35, which is not close to diverging.

*simplified, there can be other structures but we won't see them.

wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-26 18:58:20
June 26 2014 18:55 GMT
#1530
On June 27 2014 03:44 kongoline wrote:
u forget that bortk, IE,berserker,scimitar got buffed too while omen got nerfed, also bigger midgame relevance means its a lot easier to get fed as adc and hit 6item where u outscale pretty much everyone

scimitar still blows quite a bit.

so apparently a group of koreans are pretty salty that Riot is doing a traveling group stage?
liftlift > tsm
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
June 26 2014 18:56 GMT
#1531
I assumed xes meant the % AD multiplier on Riven's ulti, not her passive.
Moderator
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-26 19:07:44
June 26 2014 18:58 GMT
#1532
On June 27 2014 03:56 TheYango wrote:
I assumed xes meant the % AD multiplier on Riven's ulti, not her passive.


Still only .3 so not remotely close enough

edit: I want to say it would actually be the average in this case since two .5 bonuses would be equivalent to B1= .5B0 which converges to zero.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-26 19:05:34
June 26 2014 19:03 GMT
#1533
On June 27 2014 03:07 Ghost-z wrote:
PBE

Bloodthirster
New Unique Passive: +10% bonus attack damage (Bonus Attack Damage is any Attack Damagefrom buffs,items and masteries)
Unique Passive's Shield value reduced to 50-350 from 50-440
Unique Passive's Shield decay time increased to 25 from 15

These changes should make BT rushing for most ADCs interesting because as soon as you start stacking that shield you'll have an immediate advantage in the lane.

Wow Riven, Talon and Zed and a few others will get some significant increase in AD scaling.

So it breaks even with the old fully stacked BT on AD at 200 bonus AD. At 300 bonus AD it'll provide 10 more AD.


As far as duo queue goes I don't mind it but I remember a game where I was matched against a duo queue jungle/top and I just got the shit camped out of me. Like he knew my ward placement so he slid in from my blue, then dived top, then camped in lane brush so I would die after tping back. I wish the game would notify me of duos so I wouldn't have to go on lolnexus anymore. Had I known they were duos I'd have played much much safer for the risk of getting camped.
That's not the only time a duo has been way more coordinated than expected at my level.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
June 26 2014 19:29 GMT
#1534
On June 27 2014 03:50 Goumindong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2014 03:24 xes wrote:
I wonder if Riven's passive and Bloodthirster passive will stack convergently


You mean divergently, and the answer is no, they will not. This is both because riot isn't close to making divergent stacking bonuses and because Riven's passive doesn't increase bonus attack damage


No I meant as a convergent product series instead of simple addition, like Vlad's passive would if it didn't explicitly say "Vlad's passive does not benefit Vlad's passive"
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
June 26 2014 19:31 GMT
#1535
Wait I thought Vlad's passive did proc off itself? Or was that deathcap
Bronze player stuck in platinum
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35144 Posts
June 26 2014 19:37 GMT
#1536
People going gaga over PBE BT need to remember that Hydra/BC/LW/BT+ ~20 from runes and masteries ~270AD. Have fun with your super amazing cool 7AD over stacking BT.

It's nothing special.
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
June 26 2014 19:42 GMT
#1537
On June 27 2014 04:31 Nos- wrote:
Wait I thought Vlad's passive did proc off itself? Or was that deathcap

I think the way its coded they precalculate how much bonus HP and bonus AP Vlad should get from base stuff, and then add those in. The problem is when there's a Deathcap it causes overflow bonus AP into bonus HP into bonus AP and then the initial flat value to discount is no longer accurate and you have some limit series of self-stacking.
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
June 26 2014 19:45 GMT
#1538
On June 27 2014 04:37 Gahlo wrote:
People going gaga over PBE BT need to remember that Hydra/BC/LW/BT+ ~20 from runes and masteries ~270AD. Have fun with your super amazing cool 7AD over stacking BT.

It's nothing special.

how'd you get 7?

it's 10% isn't it? so that'd be 27 AD. It's not amazing, but not completely negligible lategame.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35144 Posts
June 26 2014 19:46 GMT
#1539
On June 27 2014 04:45 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2014 04:37 Gahlo wrote:
People going gaga over PBE BT need to remember that Hydra/BC/LW/BT+ ~20 from runes and masteries ~270AD. Have fun with your super amazing cool 7AD over stacking BT.

It's nothing special.

how'd you get 7?

it's 10% isn't it? so that'd be 27 AD. It's not amazing, but not completely negligible lategame.

Because 20 of it brings PBE BT up to 100, matching stacking BT.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
June 26 2014 19:51 GMT
#1540
On June 27 2014 04:31 Nos- wrote:
Wait I thought Vlad's passive did proc off itself? Or was that deathcap


Vlad passive does not stack with itself lol.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
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