EPT[Patch 4.6] Twitch VU General Discussion - Page 95
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On May 02 2014 06:41 Alaric wrote: Grail's pretty meh on Swain, if people don't die it won't do shit for you because you just dry your pool too fast in fights. You'd better buy more damage so you can actually kill people fast and get an advantage. Fights need not be decided in one 100-0 combo or Swain is useless (DoTs + his ult is useless if he himself gets one-shot), but they can't last too long or your pool and short range will make you useless. Swain actually scales alot better off a large mana pool + resists than pure damage. RoA/FH/Hourglass/SV/Seraphs all have a place on Swain. Even Rylais Grail Morellos has a place depending on what you need. Just depends though. I havent played Swain in quite a while lolol, since they did the ignite nerf after i spent all that time writing the TL guide for him :< | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On May 02 2014 06:53 GrandInquisitor wrote: I feel like Swain, Karthus, and a few other AP mids have this thing going where people can just argue endlessly over the "right" build, because you can make an argument for just about every single AP item (Rylai's, Liandry's, Rabadon's, Athene's, Abyssal, Hourglass, Rod of Ages, etc.) on them. I've always argued theres multiple viable items on Swain, however RoA is 100% core on him every game. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Swain's got really good base damage (his ratios aren't too shabby either if the Q tether doesn't break) so MPen can be considered too, but the idea is that you live because you're being healed, and people die before you stop healing so it's 'k. If you take less damage because you stack resists, it means you do less damage, so you're not as important a target anyway. There's a balance to strike. (And I wouldn't like to pay 2.5k for basically 60 AP and 40 MR since midgame is where Swain shines. Contrary to what people think, even if he's extremely reliant on items, and has a big gap in power between levels 10 and 11, his short range, inability to pop banshee's efficiently, vulnerability to getting one-shot while he can't one-shot people himself, and farming issues make him more a liability than anything else late game, unless you can force people to dive you, which isn't really popular atm with all the poke going on.) ^ that's one of the good things with Swain though, that there is no "true" build on him. That's fine, and makes the game more interesting imo. Nasus' kit was like that before all the tweaks, every single spell was arguably good to have maxed asap, Q to farrm, W for ganking/utility (support Nasus was kinda working at some point), E if you want to group early or simply because at level 9 it's the spell that makes you deal the most damage (however many Q stacks you have) and you want to bully people over passively farm. That made his kit super interesting, along with the fact that he could lane, jungle and support. We'd need more champions like that but I don't think Riot wants it because they'd like beginners to easily be able to say "I want to have this skill order". The more I look at DotA, the more I find it interesting how you can move skill builds around depending on your goal/how the game's going. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On May 02 2014 07:02 Alaric wrote: Oh I agree that on paper he likes resists, but it's useless to double your EHP if you can barely sustain your ult for 6 seconds (and whatever little portion of your total health it can heal meanwhile) and barely deal any damage. Swain's got really good base damage (his ratios aren't too shabby either if the Q tether doesn't break) so MPen can be considered too, but the idea is that you live because you're being healed, and people die before you stop healing so it's 'k. If you take less damage because you stack resists, it means you do less damage, so you're not as important a target anyway. There's a balance to strike. (And I wouldn't like to pay 2.5k for basically 60 AP and 40 MR since midgame is where Swain shines. Contrary to what people think, even if he's extremely reliant on items, and has a big gap in power between levels 10 and 11, his short range, inability to pop banshee's efficiently, vulnerability to getting one-shot while he can't one-shot people himself, and farming issues make him more a liability than anything else late game, unless you can force people to dive you, which isn't really popular atm with all the poke going on.) Theres a few good hybrid items, I liked RoA/Tear on him into Hourglass/Spirit Visage-> whatever I feel like in a long fight Swain shines but it also hurts him since you're forced to break bird form before the mana costs prevent you from doing anything. He's just really a champion that needs to build too much shit at once and is unable to really do so :< That being said he's really one of my favorite champions and retardedly snowbally in both directions On a random note, just saw CoD1 is on steam for..... 13.99? what, ive been able to buy the GOTY edition @ Wal-Mart for 9.99 for years :< | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On May 02 2014 06:53 GrandInquisitor wrote: I feel like Swain, Karthus, and a few other AP mids have this thing going where people can just argue endlessly over the "right" build, because you can make an argument for just about every single AP item (Rylai's, Liandry's, Rabadon's, Athene's, Abyssal, Hourglass, Rod of Ages, etc.) on them. Difference is Karthus is decent in competitive play, while Swain is pretty ass. The reason there's such a huge argument for Swain is cuz all the builds are ass on him, so the argument ends up being "which is least ass?". Which doesn't really matter, cuz it's ass. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On May 02 2014 06:36 arb wrote: What are you supposed to build on Kassadin now? It seems like he wants Mana/CDR/AP cause those like 9 second cds on Q are fucking brutal Looks like people are mostly getting RoA into standard AP stuff. IBG is also quite popular. Some get tear either in addition to or as a replacement to RoA. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 02 2014 07:06 wei2coolman wrote: Difference is Karthus is decent in competitive play, while Swain is pretty ass. The reason there's such a huge argument for Swain is cuz all the builds are ass on him, so the argument ends up being "which is least ass?". Which doesn't really matter, cuz it's ass. Or we could, you know, not treat item selection like it's something that stays fixed from game to game. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On May 02 2014 07:18 TheYango wrote: Or we could, you know, not treat item selection like it's something that stays fixed from game to game. I'm just saying the case of Swain, each item selection is ass, cuz the champ is in a poor spot right now. So any discussion in regards to how he's built still ends with the same solution of "it's ass". At least with Karthus, then you can talk about meaningful item solutions based on situations. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On May 02 2014 07:27 wei2coolman wrote: I'm just saying the case of Swain, each item selection is ass, cuz the champ is in a poor spot right now. So any discussion in regards to how he's built still ends with the same solution of "it's ass". At least with Karthus, then you can talk about meaningful item solutions based on situations. My favorite karthus build had to be the 5 AA staff + hat build. so much fun | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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LoCicero
1100 Posts
On May 02 2014 07:46 AlterKot wrote: I feel like I'm getting behind in meta, what are the strongest champs to blind pick top in ranked? I've had problems with Jax and most success with Karma, Lulu and Kayle. I know you asked for top champs, but I'm gonna suggest a different approach (I'm assuming here that your goal is to climb the ladder, if it's to just get better at top lane, then feel free to ignore me!) I have success picking champs that can fill multiple roles, and I feel this is probably one of the best ways to climb the ladder relatively quickly. If you can fill multiple roles proficiently, then you can give your team members whatever they call for and you should be ahead of the game. As long as you're confident in your ability to play multiple roles better than the general public, you should do well. For instance: one of the best champs for this is Karma (she's super-duper fun, too!). She is currently one of the better supports, and is a solid mid/top laner (she can't really carry from lane, but you can bully the enemy laner or at the very least you should go even with almost anyone early-mid). Having a champ in your lineup that can play all lanes is a HUGE leg-up on the competition. Other notable champs imo would be Lee (top/mid/jung), Lulu (mid/supp), Soraka (mid/supp/maybe top) Anyway, to answer your original question, I'd say: Renekton, Ryze, Jax, Lee, Karma, Shyvana, Irelia. (Less popular but still effective: Jayce, Riven) | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On May 02 2014 08:00 Fusilero wrote: You can probably blind pick irelia into most match ups But then you're playing Irelia... | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
Looking at your list, isn't Jax heavily counterable by likes of Renekton, Olaf and range champs? Isn't Ryze heavily countered by other mages? Saying that, thanks for the list - I guess I'm not as behind the meta as I thought. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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