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On April 16 2014 11:33 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 10:45 GolemMadness wrote:
When you get a Lee on your team, does anyone else think "We're probably going to lose this game"? Uh no. I know low elo Lee can be awful, but he isn't that bad... at least not Rengar level of bad.
To be frank I think this can be measured by my LSMP, or my Lee Sin Measurement Process. Everything about the skill level of the Lee Sin hinges on the skin he uses. Dragon Fist or Pool Party and the Lee most likely sucks. Muay Thai and Classic are decent, but have the potential to swing either way (although classic tends to trend towards better players). If they use Traditional Lee Sin, he's probably pretty decent. And then of course there's god-tier Acolyte Lee Sin. I've never NOT been carried by one.
+ Show Spoiler +The "Acolyte Effect" MAY be because, since the Acolyte skin looks so bad, it's only really owned by people who just want to buy all the Lee skins and are therefore Lee Sin mains and play a lot and are baller.
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On April 16 2014 03:22 Kyrie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 03:09 Zdrastochye wrote:On April 15 2014 23:46 Kyrie wrote:
i am also unconvinced by the importance placed on the early level 2 bot lane
and to make a broader point, i think this is just the bot lane version of the 'super critical early strat' that exists for each role/lane. it's getting a leash/starting at the proper camp for junglers, taking control of the first wave top, and harassing early mid. these things do matter, but they're constantly parroted as reasons why games are won/lost with little understanding of why they matter, when they matter, and how they impact the game dynamic going forward. it's sort of the next level up from complaining about the lack of jungler ganks It's actually incredibly important. Certain supports are at their peak levels 1-3, others 4-6, the ranges vary based on who their adc is and what they're facing but on certain champions who aren't fotm are reliant on strong early games (or cheese) to be able to match up to the fotm picks. It's certainly overstated and the whole phase is not dictated based on who hits 2 first, but it certainly can be. You are right though that it exists in each matchup, though I'd argue bot (and then top) are the two lanes that are influenced the most by it. If you're playing Thresh, Leona, Annie, Karma, and Morgana you need not worry, this is more for the Blitzcrank, Veigar, Nautilus, etc supports. Just remember that the lower the league you play in, the more that's viable so as long as you aren't D1 you should be able to have success on almost anything (think support Warwick) as long as you find out how to properly play it. am i correct in reading this post as primarily saying that niche/gimmick supports with specific timings are more dependent than meta picks on taking advantage of those timings
No its more about engage timing and snowballs. It actually matters less now that the level 1 FB is worth less(and because junglers gank bottom more) but its still pretty big. At level 1 you cannot hard engage into an enemies minion line because the minions will eat you up. If you get a pick you can capitalize and if they have no minions and you're stronger you can as well. However when you're level 2 and they're level 1 you can do this.
If your lane is generally weaker early than the enemy lane then getting to level 2 first prevents an all-in by the enemy team who should almost assuredly take the option if they can. The other option is to retreat off of the lane and cede the zone. Neither of these are attractive and, like the top lane snowball, can completely swing lanes.
Probably more important than getting to level 2 first is ensuring that you're pushed. Unless the enemy can lane gank you (or you can't put wards in the river) pushing hard is almost assuredly an advantageous position. If something goes wrong the enemy team has to get through one or two waves to get to your tower. If something goes right you can start knocking immediately. Attacking people under tower is easier because they are on a short time limit to last hit as well.
Its possible that the "get level 2 first" pressure is hard to distinguish with the 'have to be pushing the lane to win it" pressure since pushing the wave will get you level 2 first.
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Nami does decent against Blitzcrank actually, but you absolutely need to do cloth armor start (or heck, doran shield) and your ADC needs to be not awful (i.e. no Ashe).
Obviously, don't get hooked by Blitz with full mana. If his mana is not too high, don't panic after you get hooked, just trade with him as best as you can and try to land your Q on the opposing ADC. You won't come out on top, but the trade won't be god awful either. Once it's over you can sustain yourself back while Blitz won't have enough mana to pose a significant threat to you for a while.
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On April 16 2014 11:40 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 11:33 Sufficiency wrote:On April 16 2014 10:45 GolemMadness wrote:
When you get a Lee on your team, does anyone else think "We're probably going to lose this game"? Uh no. I know low elo Lee can be awful, but he isn't that bad... at least not Rengar level of bad. To be frank I think this can be measured by my LSMP, or my Lee Sin Measurement Process. Everything about the skill level of the Lee Sin hinges on the skin he uses. Dragon Fist or Pool Party and the Lee most likely sucks. Muay Thai and Classic are decent, but have the potential to swing either way (although classic tends to trend towards better players). If they use Traditional Lee Sin, he's probably pretty decent. And then of course there's god-tier Acolyte Lee Sin. I've never NOT been carried by one. + Show Spoiler +The "Acolyte Effect" MAY be because, since the Acolyte skin looks so bad, it's only really owned by people who just want to buy all the Lee skins and are therefore Lee Sin mains and play a lot and are baller.
This post makes me realize how sad it was for me to learn that Riot API does not provide skin information.
It would be interesting to mine some data and see which champions have the biggest win % difference going from bronze to diamond.
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Syndra skin - out of 11 games.
OK.
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On April 16 2014 12:04 Sufficiency wrote:Syndra skin - out of 11 games. OK.
Gladiator Draven is so much better than Soul Reaver tho
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On April 16 2014 11:39 Zdrastochye wrote:
If you're maxing W on Nami for any reason you're just not using her strengths. E is so much more useful. I'm sorry there is no reason to max W first. I will never say it's justified, even if you're versus a poke lane (that is rarely played, most are hard engages via hooks or level 6 kills like Morg ult/tibbers.
W max will win you lane against enemies you can't hard engage onto like morg and who have engage which you don't have a good way to stop (like Morg). Any time you're trading in a situation where you don't have an easy all-in W max will win you the lane.
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On April 16 2014 12:45 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 11:39 Zdrastochye wrote:
If you're maxing W on Nami for any reason you're just not using her strengths. E is so much more useful. I'm sorry there is no reason to max W first. I will never say it's justified, even if you're versus a poke lane (that is rarely played, most are hard engages via hooks or level 6 kills like Morg ult/tibbers. W max will win you lane against enemies you can't hard engage onto like morg and who have engage which you don't have a good way to stop (like Morg). Any time you're trading in a situation where you don't have an easy all-in W max will win you the lane.
Give me another example besides Morg that you would advocate W over E max.
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just reading the passive hurts my head, sorta over complicated.
his ulti as a skillshot is weird.
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On April 16 2014 11:40 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 11:33 Sufficiency wrote:On April 16 2014 10:45 GolemMadness wrote:
When you get a Lee on your team, does anyone else think "We're probably going to lose this game"? Uh no. I know low elo Lee can be awful, but he isn't that bad... at least not Rengar level of bad. To be frank I think this can be measured by my LSMP, or my Lee Sin Measurement Process. Everything about the skill level of the Lee Sin hinges on the skin he uses. Dragon Fist or Pool Party and the Lee most likely sucks. Muay Thai and Classic are decent, but have the potential to swing either way (although classic tends to trend towards better players). If they use Traditional Lee Sin, he's probably pretty decent. And then of course there's god-tier Acolyte Lee Sin. I've never NOT been carried by one. + Show Spoiler +The "Acolyte Effect" MAY be because, since the Acolyte skin looks so bad, it's only really owned by people who just want to buy all the Lee skins and are therefore Lee Sin mains and play a lot and are baller.
You know, this matches my experience pretty well. You may be on to something here...
But I rarely have a Lee that sucks so badly he's the sole reason we lose anymore.
+ Show Spoiler +Probably because I stopped playing him. I'm still bitter as hell that the early season lag essentially made me lose all my confidence in my Lee. Probably never going to get my mojo back.  Maybe I need to stop playing Dragon Fist/Pool Party Lee xD
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On April 16 2014 14:17 zer0das wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 11:40 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On April 16 2014 11:33 Sufficiency wrote:On April 16 2014 10:45 GolemMadness wrote:
When you get a Lee on your team, does anyone else think "We're probably going to lose this game"? Uh no. I know low elo Lee can be awful, but he isn't that bad... at least not Rengar level of bad. To be frank I think this can be measured by my LSMP, or my Lee Sin Measurement Process. Everything about the skill level of the Lee Sin hinges on the skin he uses. Dragon Fist or Pool Party and the Lee most likely sucks. Muay Thai and Classic are decent, but have the potential to swing either way (although classic tends to trend towards better players). If they use Traditional Lee Sin, he's probably pretty decent. And then of course there's god-tier Acolyte Lee Sin. I've never NOT been carried by one. + Show Spoiler +The "Acolyte Effect" MAY be because, since the Acolyte skin looks so bad, it's only really owned by people who just want to buy all the Lee skins and are therefore Lee Sin mains and play a lot and are baller. You know, this matches my experience pretty well. You may be on to something here... But I rarely have a Lee that sucks so badly he's the sole reason we lose anymore. + Show Spoiler +Probably because I stopped playing him. I'm still bitter as hell that the early season lag essentially made me lose all my confidence in my Lee. Probably never going to get my mojo back. Maybe I need to stop playing Dragon Fist/Pool Party Lee xD
1. Play a few bot games to get the feel for mechanics
2. Play a few games on a smurf or sub-30 to stomp
3. Begin ranked as worst Acolyte Lee Sin NA and work your way up
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
Does all of the PAX East codes for Heca/Blitz works on all servers? Because on most ebay auctions it's not specified and I'm wondering...
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Traditional lee sin best lee sin.
Ok so does anyone have tips on how to CS effectively? Literally the only thing i know is that towers take 3 hits to kill a melee minion. I miss a shit load of CS because im just bad and ive come to the realisation i dont understand the tricks n shit of how to do it. (An example being i kept missing CS on ryze yesterday because my AA's would leave a sliver of HP. Do i AA earlier to adjust minion damage for the last hit, do i Q, what do i do?)
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
No idea but I always thought that if it comes to melee minion, You just autoattack it once, let the turret hit him twice and then you're able to lasthit with autoattack. At least that works for ADC :D
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On April 16 2014 15:33 Omnishroud wrote:
Traditional lee sin best lee sin.
Ok so does anyone have tips on how to CS effectively? Literally the only thing i know is that towers take 3 hits to kill a melee minion. I miss a shit load of CS because im just bad and ive come to the realisation i dont understand the tricks n shit of how to do it. (An example being i kept missing CS on ryze yesterday because my AA's would leave a sliver of HP. Do i AA earlier to adjust minion damage for the last hit, do i Q, what do i do?)
You just need to be aware of exactly how low their healthbar needs to be for you to last-hit them with an AA. Then you need to pay attention to your own minion's targets, and timing accordingly. Specifically, it helps to pay attention to your Cannon's target, and your Casters' targets. Sometimes you'll notice a round of minion shots are going to be enough to finish a minion, but it's not low enough yet to last-hit yourself, in those cases you can time your Auto to land in the middle of a minion round, or, use a skill (like Q on Ryze) to finish the minion.
The best way to practice last-hitting is to just open up a custom game with no bots, and just last-hit minions for 10 minutes. Then add a bot and practice some more. The goal is 80+ CS in 10 minutes to become so easy for you that it's a rote mechanic.
As for turret hugging, you can set up the minion wave ahead of time to prepare for farming under turret. Making sure your Melees are just above half health and that each caster is set up to be one-shot after turret. But it's inherently difficult once your own minions arrive at the tower and start fucking things up, at which point, just focus one down at a time and hope for the best lol.
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On April 16 2014 15:43 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 15:33 Omnishroud wrote:
Traditional lee sin best lee sin.
Ok so does anyone have tips on how to CS effectively? Literally the only thing i know is that towers take 3 hits to kill a melee minion. I miss a shit load of CS because im just bad and ive come to the realisation i dont understand the tricks n shit of how to do it. (An example being i kept missing CS on ryze yesterday because my AA's would leave a sliver of HP. Do i AA earlier to adjust minion damage for the last hit, do i Q, what do i do?) You just need to be aware of exactly how low their healthbar needs to be for you to last-hit them with an AA. Then you need to pay attention to your own minion's targets, and timing accordingly. Specifically, it helps to pay attention to your Cannon's target, and your Casters' targets. Sometimes you'll notice a round of minion shots are going to be enough to finish a minion, but it's not low enough yet to last-hit yourself, in those cases you can time your Auto to land in the middle of a minion round, or, use a skill (like Q on Ryze) to finish the minion. The best way to practice last-hitting is to just open up a custom game with no bots, and just last-hit minions for 10 minutes. Then add a bot and practice some more. The goal is 80+ CS in 10 minutes to become so easy for you that it's a rote mechanic. As for turret hugging, you can set up the minion wave ahead of time to prepare for farming under turret. Making sure your Melees are just above half health and that each caster is set up to be one-shot after turret. But it's inherently difficult once your own minions arrive at the tower and start fucking things up, at which point, just focus one down at a time and hope for the best lol.
Is this what you do when you get high?
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EPT
