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On April 07 2014 12:06 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2014 11:54 cLutZ wrote:
Out of those 3, I really dont understand the need to Rework Nidalee or Warwick. Balancing both of them seems incredibly easy.
Nidalee: Do nothing. If you must do something, decrease the base damage on her lvl 6 cougar form so its not merely "survive until 6" for Nidalee, maybe "Survive until 11 and/or 1 full item".
Warwick: Make Frozen Heart a Competitive item again, make wits end a competitive item, give chalice a tank upgrade. Most importantly, ACTUALLY BALANCE TOPLANE AND JUNGLE IN A SANE MANNER. Maybe you and I have different versions of incredibly easy, but I can't imagine balancing jungle and top lane is that easy. Unless you're just underselling it for dramatic effect?
Well, you kinda get to pick out of those things.
But balancing the toplane and jungle as a whole is not fairly easy. But that is simply because most of their recent changes to both have gone in the wrong direction, which means the sweeping changes that need to happen would temporarily throw things into a crazy imbalanced state ala when BC and Warmogs were crazy in S3.
Step 1: Champions without mana get all cooldowns increased dramatically, and/or all healing removed from their kits. Champions that use mana, but have manaless forms have the same treatment applied to said form.
Step 2: Rewards on jungle camps shifted away from all big monsters to small monsters, same with HP of said monsters.
3: Increase overall rewards of jungle, but move the camps back towards the base.
After that it comes down to tweaks. Should you shorten the sidelanes? Maybe, or maybe you give lategame champions better scaling, or reduce the scaling of earlygame champions, At the point you just have to recognize that you should balance champions based on when you want champion XX to overtake champion YY, and when you do that you need to account for the lead that champion XX should already have.
Like, currently only the Shyvana vs. Renekton matchup even works in that manner anymore, sometimes Shen vs. Renekton will, but thats more of just weird lane.
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As far as i can tell Rengar is better now than before.
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On April 07 2014 15:00 Zdrastochye wrote:
Are you purposely ignoring champions who got shitty reworks? Rengar wants a word with you.
Forgot about him. Falls under the category of was just reworked and numbers still need tweeking.
On April 07 2014 14:27 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2014 13:55 gtrsrs wrote:On April 07 2014 13:40 Gahlo wrote:
Or maybe people should realize that Frozen Heart isn't a tank item. how so Because the main reason to pick it over Randuins, the tank item, is for the CDR. CDR being a traditionally offensive stat. Are there purely defensive cooldowns it will get applied to? Yes. But overall it's a "I want this cc/damage faster" situation more often than not. Kind of like pre-nerf SV, it was just massively warped by Perseverance. Show nested quote +On April 07 2014 14:00 GolemMadness wrote:On April 07 2014 12:38 VayneAuthority wrote:On April 07 2014 12:35 Kupon3ss wrote:
Individual champion balances hit certain people harder than others depending on how they approach the game. For most non-paying players, they feel that they are pigeonholed into a small subset of champions due to the game's champion business-model and rune/mastery system.
As a result they mostly develop on the back of that small list of champions and become very familiar with them. Since Riot's balance patches happen in relatively small chunks on a frequent basis, people can perceive changes to their favorite champions as what's basically a kick in the balls if that's what they play most of the time. It also doesn't help that Riot's "reworks" often involve a certain degree of homogenization in terms of kits and power curves. this pretty much. it was alright at first but have you guys seen the list of champions they have banished into obscurity lately with their reworks? its getting fairly high. Gragas and Kassadin only just got reworked over the last couple of weeks, so numbers still need some tweeking. Otherwise: -snip- Don't forget Kat!
Looks like it was right before I started playing.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On April 07 2014 15:02 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2014 12:06 Zdrastochye wrote:On April 07 2014 11:54 cLutZ wrote:
Out of those 3, I really dont understand the need to Rework Nidalee or Warwick. Balancing both of them seems incredibly easy.
Nidalee: Do nothing. If you must do something, decrease the base damage on her lvl 6 cougar form so its not merely "survive until 6" for Nidalee, maybe "Survive until 11 and/or 1 full item".
Warwick: Make Frozen Heart a Competitive item again, make wits end a competitive item, give chalice a tank upgrade. Most importantly, ACTUALLY BALANCE TOPLANE AND JUNGLE IN A SANE MANNER. Maybe you and I have different versions of incredibly easy, but I can't imagine balancing jungle and top lane is that easy. Unless you're just underselling it for dramatic effect? Well, you kinda get to pick out of those things. But balancing the toplane and jungle as a whole is not fairly easy. But that is simply because most of their recent changes to both have gone in the wrong direction, which means the sweeping changes that need to happen would temporarily throw things into a crazy imbalanced state ala when BC and Warmogs were crazy in S3. Step 1: Champions without mana get all cooldowns increased dramatically, and/or all healing removed from their kits. Champions that use mana, but have manaless forms have the same treatment applied to said form. Step 2: Rewards on jungle camps shifted away from all big monsters to small monsters, same with HP of said monsters. 3: Increase overall rewards of jungle, but move the camps back towards the base. After that it comes down to tweaks. Should you shorten the sidelanes? Maybe, or maybe you give lategame champions better scaling, or reduce the scaling of earlygame champions, At the point you just have to recognize that you should balance champions based on when you want champion XX to overtake champion YY, and when you do that you need to account for the lead that champion XX should already have. Like, currently only the Shyvana vs. Renekton matchup even works in that manner anymore, sometimes Shen vs. Renekton will, but thats more of just weird lane.
You have done a very good job of explaining what you would like to see happen. Can you explain what effect do you want to achieve with those things? Because link between the changes you proposed and "balance in the jungle and toplane" are not at all obvious, I think it would be greatly appreciated.
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Ok im guessing nobody is having server problems so I'm getting drophacked? Is this a thing now?
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On April 07 2014 15:29 UnKooL wrote:
Ok im guessing nobody is having server problems so I'm getting drophacked? Is this a thing now?
yeah happened to me before, it's apparently really popular now. At least when I was drophacked it was a guy on my team doing it so I didn't get a loss :^)
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On April 07 2014 13:34 Gahlo wrote:
Homogenization is almost as bad as toxic. Buzzwords suck.
I hate "No Counterplay" so much whenever anyone says it.
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On April 07 2014 16:11 silencefc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2014 13:34 Gahlo wrote:
Homogenization is almost as bad as toxic. Buzzwords suck. I hate "No Counterplay" so much whenever anyone says it.
"antifun"
even though i use it sometimes
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I had it happen to me once in an URF game.
Definitely seeing an increase in the number of people drophacking. A year ago you'd almost never see any legitimate complaint about hackers.
I'm not entirely surprised though since League has been and is getting bigger and bigger. I also can't imagine Riot won't be doing anything about it. My guess is that they're gonna stay quiet on the issue until they've fixed the vulnerability because that's how 99% of online gaming companies deal with hackers.
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Always amusing to hear folks complain about reworks on champs that haven't been played in a serious or even semi-serious manner in goodness knows how long ago. If anyone needs some help to be relevant it's Warwick. You play warwick to have fun at this point not to be good. His last point of play on the scene was what? Pre Q nerf s2 late s1?
People complain about all the reworks but eventually they either get tweaked enough to work or someone else figures out how to make that champ work and suddenly that camp is too good and requiring a nerf(See Rework Kat, Kayle, Ryze, Eve, Olaf, Karma,Trundle, Heimer)
You can dislike that they changed things all you want but they've always managed to hit the mark sooner or later. Change is scary but it hasn't been bad to any of the champions play rates from what I've seen.
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On April 07 2014 16:14 Parnage wrote:
Always amusing to hear folks complain about reworks on champs that haven't been played in a serious or even semi-serious manner in goodness knows how long ago. If anyone needs some help to be relevant it's Warwick. You play warwick to have fun at this point not to be good. His last point of play on the scene was what? Pre Q nerf s2 late s1?
People complain about all the reworks but eventually they either get tweaked enough to work or someone else figures out how to make that champ work and suddenly that camp is too good and requiring a nerf(See Rework Kat, Kayle, Ryze, Eve, Olaf, Karma,Trundle, Heimer)
You can dislike that they changed things all you want but they've always managed to hit the mark sooner or later. Change is scary but it hasn't been bad to any of the champions play rates from what I've seen.
It's not just popularity/strength though.
I don't care for those champs you listed, but for me the reason the Xerath rework was an utter failure is because they gutted his identity. Siege mode was what set him apart from other long range champs, and they removed that. So many other ways he could've been changed (if he HAD to be reworked), but no, they go and slaughter his unique factor.
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On April 07 2014 16:14 Parnage wrote:
Always amusing to hear folks complain about reworks on champs that haven't been played in a serious or even semi-serious manner in goodness knows how long ago. If anyone needs some help to be relevant it's Warwick. You play warwick to have fun at this point not to be good. His last point of play on the scene was what? Pre Q nerf s2 late s1?
People complain about all the reworks but eventually they either get tweaked enough to work or someone else figures out how to make that champ work and suddenly that camp is too good and requiring a nerf(See Rework Kat, Kayle, Ryze, Eve, Olaf, Karma,Trundle, Heimer)
You can dislike that they changed things all you want but they've always managed to hit the mark sooner or later. Change is scary but it hasn't been bad to any of the champions play rates from what I've seen.
Something that you did not consider is the fact how fast the champions number grows and how many they are at the moment, normally not all of them can see regular play. cannot be equally distributed when they are so many.
Actually I always wonder how many is the limit? When they gonna stop introducing new champs or will they? I mean, 200, 300 400, infinity? When will the game we know so well will become something else, just because the number is too high to have a comprehensive meta, for people to know all of them, the balancing to be even remotely adequate..
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
Guys question. Anything rune rework changed for Blitzcrank? I mean, best runes now? Masteries still 0/9/21? Skill order? R>W>E>Q ? R>E>Q>W ? R>W>Q>E ?
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On April 07 2014 18:50 739 wrote:
Guys question. Anything rune rework changed for Blitzcrank? I mean, best runes now? Masteries still 0/9/21? Skill order? R>W>E>Q ? R>E>Q>W ? R>W>Q>E ?
Not sure about runes, but 0/9/21 or 0/16/14 masteries are common. R>Q>W>E
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i'm pretty sure either league servers pooped or someone is dropping my game right now.
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should i be running heal on adc's now and not barrier?
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oh and also looks like tribunal is finally back up and running, got banned for 3 days on my smurf all with games from the past week. so be careful out there.
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
I had an annoying bug yesterday... I was in ranked game and I was 1st pick. I've banned 3 champs and it was my turn to first pick but I couldn't, I saw the timer going down but the champion icons were darkened (looked like my opponent was picking first) and then after 30 seconds I got dropped out of game, saying that I've failed to choose a champion in time and now I'm sitting at -3lp... lol.
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Australia18228 Posts
Has anyone done the maths on the Spell/Blade Weaving masteries (stacking +1% damage)?
Looked through OGN masteries and it seems a few players drop points from % bonus AD or %AS/CDR to get both Weaving masteries.
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Just tried out MF.
She's still pretty damn weak, they should remake her E.
Oh and is Heal OP now. Im seeing teams with 3xHeal in it...
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EPT
