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On April 07 2014 22:59 Ketara wrote:
Warwick is obviously in glaring need of a rework, I'm not sure what's up with you guys.
Riot doesn't rework champions for balance purposes most of the time. If the champion can be balanced with numbers tweaks, that's what they do.
Riot reworks champions when their kits are awful, and are either not fun to play, don't make any logical/thematic sense, or not fun to play against.
Warwicks kit is awful. He only has two abilities. One of them is his ult which is about as point and click boring as you can get, and pales in comparison to newer similar abilities like Vi ult or Yasuo ult or even Skarner ult, both in effect and in just how neato it is.
Warwicks other ability is his Q, which is what makes him an antifun top laner. It's also a pretty stupid ability, you just walk up to the other guy, press Q and you won the trade. It's entirely on the other guy to never get into your Q range to begin with.
His W and E are so boring they're basically not even there, they're just passive buffs that barely even cost mana, they may as well be on all the time so you don't have to press the button.
I'm not sure how you could see Warwick as anything but an antiquated and idiotic champion that badly needs a rework.
The same can be said about almost all ADCs.
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United States23745 Posts
On April 07 2014 23:01 zer0das wrote:
Because he's fun? Just because you don't think he's fun doesn't mean he isn't.
lol, what kind of argument is this? Just because you think he's fun doesn't mean he is.
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On April 07 2014 23:25 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2014 23:01 zer0das wrote:
Because he's fun? Just because you don't think he's fun doesn't mean he isn't. lol, what kind of argument is this? Just because you think he's fun doesn't mean he is.
I actually think WW is as fun as Jax, Irelia, Trundle, and Shyvana. You run around and press a couple of buttons, and hope you gained enough advantage previously so you don't die.
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On April 07 2014 23:03 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2014 22:37 Roffles wrote:
Scip, since you have a decent understanding of the challenger scene in EU, can you tell me if any of the teams (NiP, C9 EU, Denial Esports, Reason Gaming) have a legitimate shot at making it into the summer split of LCS? Here are my best guesses: C9 is the team with K0u and Voidle right? K0u is imo top 3 euw jungler (alongside Amazing and Svenskeren), the laners are pretty good. Not sure who their ADC is, but it looks like he is too high on ladder for me to ever meet him LOL. I would be very surprised if they didn't make it with current lineup (maybe K0u will still be 16 then? or is he 17 already, not sure), I would even expect them to be in the upper half of the league if they keep their current lineup (k0u is toxic as all hell lololool) NiP is really good too, not as good though imo. Zorozero is god and Hulberto is not to be underestimated and he used to play shaco sonofabitch, nukeduck was pretty bad in LCS though so not so sure about him. Bottom lane is pretty good, as much as I hate to admit it Freeze is good but again toxic as all hell holy shit. Not too sure what to think about Denial, another polish team so who knows they could surprise, Kikis is a fucking legend but he is a legendary Akali and solo laner in general, not a jungler lol. He's been playing jungle for a while but I'm not sure he's a beast yet. NiQ has been really good for a while but if I'm not mistaken the 3 other guys are polish randoms. Giving this team low chance of success. RG I don't know, the name beansu (their toplane according to LP) sounds really familiar and I think he's beast and so is BarneyD but I dont know the other 3 guys at all. I'd give these very low chance of success. My knowledge of EUW scene has diminished though, I've been in very low challenger/high D1 for a while now and it's not really sufficient to meet all these people, so take with a grain of salt.
I don't think C9 has been playing with Kou for a while now, but aside from that cool insight into the scene
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On April 07 2014 23:25 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2014 23:01 zer0das wrote:
Because he's fun? Just because you don't think he's fun doesn't mean he isn't. lol, what kind of argument is this? Just because you think he's fun doesn't mean he is.
the argument doesn't work that way, only the other way
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WW:
Make (an improved) blood scent his ult (sort of like night stalker from dota)
Turn his passive into he applies partial lifesteal on abilities and partial spellvamp on autoattacks. (Gunblade every day probably)
Turn Q into a single target jump attack (sort of like aatrox or kha, but single target damage with flat hp gain instead of knockup or aoe damage)
W can be howl for aoe silence (vaguely like riven stun) + minor damage
E can be bite for increased damage + slow + dot (rabies)
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
So take those teams and pit them against Millenium, CW, and Supa Hot Crew. Do you think they realistically have a chance to take a Bo5 off those teams and make it into LCS?
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
According to LP he left and then rejoined a month ago. Yeah, he's definitely played with them, saw him at Black Monster Cup like a week ago.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Against Millenium I say C9 or NiP win 90%, the other teams hard to guess though, too many uncertain factors for me. Against SHC I'd say C9 are favoured, NiP probably even and the rest probably not. Idk about CW why they haven't been doing well, if they were amongst the challenger teams I'd have to evaluate they'd probably been on the top just because Amazing+Forgiven shoulders. Never had too much faith in their other players but meh, it's not like they are that bad. I guess I would place them even with C9, maybe a bit below knowing their LCS performance.
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On April 07 2014 23:15 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2014 22:59 Ketara wrote:
Warwick is obviously in glaring need of a rework, I'm not sure what's up with you guys.
Riot doesn't rework champions for balance purposes most of the time. If the champion can be balanced with numbers tweaks, that's what they do.
Riot reworks champions when their kits are awful, and are either not fun to play, don't make any logical/thematic sense, or not fun to play against.
Warwicks kit is awful. He only has two abilities. One of them is his ult which is about as point and click boring as you can get, and pales in comparison to newer similar abilities like Vi ult or Yasuo ult or even Skarner ult, both in effect and in just how neato it is.
Warwicks other ability is his Q, which is what makes him an antifun top laner. It's also a pretty stupid ability, you just walk up to the other guy, press Q and you won the trade. It's entirely on the other guy to never get into your Q range to begin with.
His W and E are so boring they're basically not even there, they're just passive buffs that barely even cost mana, they may as well be on all the time so you don't have to press the button.
I'm not sure how you could see Warwick as anything but an antiquated and idiotic champion that badly needs a rework. The same can be said about almost all ADCs.
I think there is a problem where too many ADCs are extremely similar to some other ADC, but that's a seperate issue.
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On April 07 2014 23:47 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2014 23:15 Sufficiency wrote:On April 07 2014 22:59 Ketara wrote:
Warwick is obviously in glaring need of a rework, I'm not sure what's up with you guys.
Riot doesn't rework champions for balance purposes most of the time. If the champion can be balanced with numbers tweaks, that's what they do.
Riot reworks champions when their kits are awful, and are either not fun to play, don't make any logical/thematic sense, or not fun to play against.
Warwicks kit is awful. He only has two abilities. One of them is his ult which is about as point and click boring as you can get, and pales in comparison to newer similar abilities like Vi ult or Yasuo ult or even Skarner ult, both in effect and in just how neato it is.
Warwicks other ability is his Q, which is what makes him an antifun top laner. It's also a pretty stupid ability, you just walk up to the other guy, press Q and you won the trade. It's entirely on the other guy to never get into your Q range to begin with.
His W and E are so boring they're basically not even there, they're just passive buffs that barely even cost mana, they may as well be on all the time so you don't have to press the button.
I'm not sure how you could see Warwick as anything but an antiquated and idiotic champion that badly needs a rework. The same can be said about almost all ADCs. I think there is a problem where too many ADCs are extremely similar to some other ADC, but that's a seperate issue.
I actually think the issue you are describing is overstated.
A lot of top laners just spam 1 or 2 buttons in a teamfight. Let's see:
Shyvana: cast R. Cast W. Then QQQQQQQQ and occasionally E (which is aoe, hard to miss) until W is back.
Jax: Q in, R, E, WWWWWWWWWWWWWW until Q/E is back.
Rumble: R QEW then QQQQQQQQQQ unless you don't mind overheating.
Warwick: R, W, QQQQQQQ until W comes back.
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i am not surprised to hear that, in a game with 4 skill buttons, most characters are relying on 1 or 2
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
k0u is on C9.EU atm but he won't be 17 until after Summer Split so he won't be an option for C9.EU anyway.
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Well, most "fighters" and "tanks" have at least one spammablr skill that is either a targetted spell or an auto reset. Then there are a few utility skills on ~10 seconds cooldown and some sort of ultimate. At the end you are just spamming 1 button.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On April 08 2014 00:02 Fusilero wrote:
k0u is on C9.EU atm but he won't be 17 until after Summer Split so he won't be an option for C9.EU anyway.
Oh yeah, was wondering about his age. Well, it will depends on what replacement they can find, k0u is definitely a major source of their power.
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When I first started playing league I really enjoyed the "these are magic dudes and you press buttons to do lots of damage" and "these are physical dudes where you right click them and sometimes buttons are nice" distinction.
Champions like Rengar are dumb.
Also, it's pretty obvious that there would be lots of closet WW "fans" here because TL is a bed of hipster elitism and somehow "enjoying"* a champion that is obviously underspecced compared to the current ones gives your epeen more girth. It is very reasonable to justify that WW needs a rework if you were to rework champions at all, since Riot's new design paradigm is vastly different than their old one. Whether the new one is actually good for anything is another point entirely.
*The use of irony quotations here is because its hard to distinguish the enjoyment from "gotta go fast" WW from the masochistic pleasure of beating someone with a garbage hero.
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Mithy is top 3 support in the western scene.
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On April 07 2014 23:57 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2014 23:47 Ketara wrote:On April 07 2014 23:15 Sufficiency wrote:On April 07 2014 22:59 Ketara wrote:
Warwick is obviously in glaring need of a rework, I'm not sure what's up with you guys.
Riot doesn't rework champions for balance purposes most of the time. If the champion can be balanced with numbers tweaks, that's what they do.
Riot reworks champions when their kits are awful, and are either not fun to play, don't make any logical/thematic sense, or not fun to play against.
Warwicks kit is awful. He only has two abilities. One of them is his ult which is about as point and click boring as you can get, and pales in comparison to newer similar abilities like Vi ult or Yasuo ult or even Skarner ult, both in effect and in just how neato it is.
Warwicks other ability is his Q, which is what makes him an antifun top laner. It's also a pretty stupid ability, you just walk up to the other guy, press Q and you won the trade. It's entirely on the other guy to never get into your Q range to begin with.
His W and E are so boring they're basically not even there, they're just passive buffs that barely even cost mana, they may as well be on all the time so you don't have to press the button.
I'm not sure how you could see Warwick as anything but an antiquated and idiotic champion that badly needs a rework. The same can be said about almost all ADCs. I think there is a problem where too many ADCs are extremely similar to some other ADC, but that's a seperate issue. I actually think the issue you are describing is overstated. A lot of top laners just spam 1 or 2 buttons in a teamfight. Let's see: Shyvana: cast R. Cast W. Then QQQQQQQQ and occasionally E (which is aoe, hard to miss) until W is back. Jax: Q in, R, E, WWWWWWWWWWWWWW until Q/E is back. Rumble: R QEW then QQQQQQQQQQ unless you don't mind overheating. Warwick: R, W, QQQQQQQ until W comes back.
I mean, Jax and Shyvana are fairly simple too, but they have more going on than Warwick does.
Jax for example can both Q to engage or to escape, and is on a lower cooldown. W has to be used correctly in order to be efficient since you need to make sure it doesn't cancel an auto. E requires positioning and you can decide to end it early for a better stun or keep it up the whole time for more damage reduction.
His R is just a stat boost and it's fairly boring, but his other 3 abilities all have a thought process going on and two of them have multiple ways they can be used, and I would call Jax a fairly straightforward and boring champion mechanically in comparison to a lot of modern champions.
And I'd call Warwick fairly boring compared to Jax. You get to R once per fight, two of his skills are just boring stat boosts that you only press once, and Q has no thought process going on. You just use it every time its up.
So if, in terms of boringitude, Warwick Q = Jax W and Warwick W and E = Jax R, Jax still has two skills with multiple uses and he probably uses them more than once in a fight, all WW gets is his ult which is single target, point and click, and a self stun on top of that.
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I assume you don't play Warwick Ketara because you keep talking about "pressing" Bloodscent; it's a toggle that you only turn off if you're trying to be sneaky, not an activated ability.
Not every champion needs to be Jayce with 7 abilities to spam. Warwick is fun and his "fantasy" of being the Blood Hunter fits him perfectly. The AWOOOOOO "I'm gonna get you, I'm gonna get you" feeling is great.
If you gave Warwick a way to push decently without having to buy Sunfire every game he would be very strong. Not need to completely remake the champion. DiracMonopole's suggestions are an entirely different champion.
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Oh no, I'm well aware that Blood Scent is stupid, it's part of my point.
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EPT
