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i think ww's was in a good spot before his mana costs became too outdated to sustain... but i understand that having sustain that is too cheap is also bad for the game. i know that daniel klein (who i think is doing his rework?) is concerned about ww's attack speed for his allies, iirc he tweeted that "it's problematic because it's too many free stats with no counterplay" or something
ww's one of my favorite champs. if i had to update/tweak him, while also keeping in mind rito's kinda new philosophy of "every ability has multiple uses" kinda thing, i might change him to be:
Q: toggle - switches his auto attacks from healing x hp on hit and having slightly greater range (somewhere between his auto now and his Q now), or slowing by y% on hit and costs mana per attack (starting pitifully low and scaling to not-quite-as-pitifully-low)
W: a very small dash (like riven E distance) with a slash at the end of it that does damage to a main target and less damage to surrounding targets. low mana cost and spammable for mobility and clear, but doesn't do extremely high damage
E: spell that gives aoe speed to his allies for a couple seconds if they are running toward (or near? idk) a target with < 50% hp. if there are no low-health enemies, instead applies grevious wounds to all nearby enemies
R: a rengar-like leap toward a target where WW stuns his target and nearby targets (for a lesser time) when he arrives, then lands on the far side of his primary target like talon/kat do. he doesn't lock himself up, but he also doesn't apply auto attacks automatically. instead, on landing, he empowers himself so that his autos are now AOE and apply his Q in a small AOE around him for x seconds
passive: every consecutive auto attack increases his auto speed (or movespeed?) by x% up to a cap, effect is doubled if they're < 50% hp
i guess in this iteration of ww, in my eyes he could go for a disruption/tank style (aoe stun into aoe slow with autos) that also allows himself and his allies to stick to their targets (lots of mobility - maybe change his ult to a skillshot that goes through creeps too idk) and still keeps the "bloodthirsty" fantasy with the chasing low hp enemies and the preventing them from healing BUT at the same time his healing isn't overwhelming so he's not unkillable, and on-hit builds can still be encouraged
i would love if he could have a skill like strygwyr/bloodseeker in dota where he would mark his prey and they would bleed/lose HP if they ran, forcing a flight/fight conundrum, but riot has already stated that they think that ability is counterintuitive iirc.
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Wonder if they will keep his supress? Not many of those left, only thing that stops smite.
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I'm just glad XDG will be gone. Let the talent on that roster be free from the deathtrap management.
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On April 08 2014 03:21 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2014 02:13 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 02:06 xes wrote:On April 08 2014 02:02 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 01:38 Dark_Chill wrote:
What would be cool is to have howl turn into an aoe fear. Makes sense with his theme (he's a werewolf hunting for blood, that's pretty scary). His ult is kinda pointless these days, when there are people who just have straight up better ones. Instead of stunning himself, maybe doing one claw attack to suppress the enemy while he can still move around.
The bigger thing I find problematic is the focus on aa for warwick when his ult is the only way to jump onto people and he's a melee with no other cc. Who has a spell that is straight up better than an instant cast 700 range suppress + blink? How about a 725 range dash that knocks back, followed by a 800 range linear AoE knockup, backed up with % max target HP damage and % max HP self-shield? Vi is quite good (obviously). But instantaneous CC has a lot of value, and Assault and Battery is certainly not straight up better than Infinite Duress. It is straight up better lol, she cant be stopped while casting, it does similar damage without locking you in place, and it knocks and damages anything in your way back lol. i dont see how thats not straight up better
Instant > Telegraphed, medium speed dash? Huge cooldown differences aside, if I got to choose between having Assault and Battery or Infinite Duress on the champion I was playing, my choice would not always be the same. I feel like I'm repeating myself just saying instantaneous over and over. Infinite Duress might be the only instant, targeted CC in the game that can't miss (Whimsy and Terrify can fizzle on Playful Trickster but I don't think Infinite Duress can).
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On April 08 2014 03:41 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2014 03:21 arb wrote:On April 08 2014 02:13 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 02:06 xes wrote:On April 08 2014 02:02 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 01:38 Dark_Chill wrote:
What would be cool is to have howl turn into an aoe fear. Makes sense with his theme (he's a werewolf hunting for blood, that's pretty scary). His ult is kinda pointless these days, when there are people who just have straight up better ones. Instead of stunning himself, maybe doing one claw attack to suppress the enemy while he can still move around.
The bigger thing I find problematic is the focus on aa for warwick when his ult is the only way to jump onto people and he's a melee with no other cc. Who has a spell that is straight up better than an instant cast 700 range suppress + blink? How about a 725 range dash that knocks back, followed by a 800 range linear AoE knockup, backed up with % max target HP damage and % max HP self-shield? Vi is quite good (obviously). But instantaneous CC has a lot of value, and Assault and Battery is certainly not straight up better than Infinite Duress. It is straight up better lol, she cant be stopped while casting, it does similar damage without locking you in place, and it knocks and damages anything in your way back lol. i dont see how thats not straight up better Instant > Telegraphed, medium speed dash? Huge cooldown differences aside, if I got to choose between having Assault and Battery or Infinite Duress on the champion I was playing, my choice would not always be the same. I feel like I'm repeating myself just saying instantaneous over and over. Infinite Duress might be the only instant, targeted CC in the game that can't miss (Whimsy and Terrify can fizzle on Playful Trickster but I don't think Infinite Duress can).
You can still bug it out like vi ult where ww isnt next to you but you are still surpressed.
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Baa?21248 Posts
On April 08 2014 03:41 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2014 03:21 arb wrote:On April 08 2014 02:13 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 02:06 xes wrote:On April 08 2014 02:02 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 01:38 Dark_Chill wrote:
What would be cool is to have howl turn into an aoe fear. Makes sense with his theme (he's a werewolf hunting for blood, that's pretty scary). His ult is kinda pointless these days, when there are people who just have straight up better ones. Instead of stunning himself, maybe doing one claw attack to suppress the enemy while he can still move around.
The bigger thing I find problematic is the focus on aa for warwick when his ult is the only way to jump onto people and he's a melee with no other cc. Who has a spell that is straight up better than an instant cast 700 range suppress + blink? How about a 725 range dash that knocks back, followed by a 800 range linear AoE knockup, backed up with % max target HP damage and % max HP self-shield? Vi is quite good (obviously). But instantaneous CC has a lot of value, and Assault and Battery is certainly not straight up better than Infinite Duress. It is straight up better lol, she cant be stopped while casting, it does similar damage without locking you in place, and it knocks and damages anything in your way back lol. i dont see how thats not straight up better Instant > Telegraphed, medium speed dash? Huge cooldown differences aside, if I got to choose between having Assault and Battery or Infinite Duress on the champion I was playing, my choice would not always be the same. I feel like I'm repeating myself just saying instantaneous over and over. Infinite Duress might be the only instant, targeted CC in the game that can't miss (Whimsy and Terrify can fizzle on Playful Trickster but I don't think Infinite Duress can).
What do you mean by can't miss? If you Whimsy them they're sheeped, if they pool/pole before you cast it means you didn't cast it and it doesn't go on CD. There's also Ryze W.
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Infinite Duress is waaaaaaaaay better than A&B instant cc is so good.
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On April 08 2014 04:00 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2014 03:41 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 03:21 arb wrote:On April 08 2014 02:13 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 02:06 xes wrote:On April 08 2014 02:02 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 01:38 Dark_Chill wrote:
What would be cool is to have howl turn into an aoe fear. Makes sense with his theme (he's a werewolf hunting for blood, that's pretty scary). His ult is kinda pointless these days, when there are people who just have straight up better ones. Instead of stunning himself, maybe doing one claw attack to suppress the enemy while he can still move around.
The bigger thing I find problematic is the focus on aa for warwick when his ult is the only way to jump onto people and he's a melee with no other cc. Who has a spell that is straight up better than an instant cast 700 range suppress + blink? How about a 725 range dash that knocks back, followed by a 800 range linear AoE knockup, backed up with % max target HP damage and % max HP self-shield? Vi is quite good (obviously). But instantaneous CC has a lot of value, and Assault and Battery is certainly not straight up better than Infinite Duress. It is straight up better lol, she cant be stopped while casting, it does similar damage without locking you in place, and it knocks and damages anything in your way back lol. i dont see how thats not straight up better Instant > Telegraphed, medium speed dash? Huge cooldown differences aside, if I got to choose between having Assault and Battery or Infinite Duress on the champion I was playing, my choice would not always be the same. I feel like I'm repeating myself just saying instantaneous over and over. Infinite Duress might be the only instant, targeted CC in the game that can't miss (Whimsy and Terrify can fizzle on Playful Trickster but I don't think Infinite Duress can). What do you mean by can't miss? If you Whimsy them they're sheeped, if they pool/pole before you cast it means you didn't cast it and it doesn't go on CD. There's also Ryze W.
It's possible to Playful Trickster in such a way that Whimsy goes on cooldown but does not affect you.
This makes sense intuitively because Whimsy is a projectile and can be blocked by Wind Wall also.
+ Show Spoiler +
User was warned for this post
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On April 08 2014 03:41 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2014 03:21 arb wrote:On April 08 2014 02:13 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 02:06 xes wrote:On April 08 2014 02:02 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 01:38 Dark_Chill wrote:
What would be cool is to have howl turn into an aoe fear. Makes sense with his theme (he's a werewolf hunting for blood, that's pretty scary). His ult is kinda pointless these days, when there are people who just have straight up better ones. Instead of stunning himself, maybe doing one claw attack to suppress the enemy while he can still move around.
The bigger thing I find problematic is the focus on aa for warwick when his ult is the only way to jump onto people and he's a melee with no other cc. Who has a spell that is straight up better than an instant cast 700 range suppress + blink? How about a 725 range dash that knocks back, followed by a 800 range linear AoE knockup, backed up with % max target HP damage and % max HP self-shield? Vi is quite good (obviously). But instantaneous CC has a lot of value, and Assault and Battery is certainly not straight up better than Infinite Duress. It is straight up better lol, she cant be stopped while casting, it does similar damage without locking you in place, and it knocks and damages anything in your way back lol. i dont see how thats not straight up better Instant > Telegraphed, medium speed dash? Huge cooldown differences aside, if I got to choose between having Assault and Battery or Infinite Duress on the champion I was playing, my choice would not always be the same. I feel like I'm repeating myself just saying instantaneous over and over. Infinite Duress might be the only instant, targeted CC in the game that can't miss (Whimsy and Terrify can fizzle on Playful Trickster but I don't think Infinite Duress can).
Rune Prison.
A&B and Infinite Duress both have their ups and downs comparatively. Saying one is strictly better is a misuse of the term. What is better in a given situation is purely contextual.
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United States23745 Posts
Apparently I already own 1 Seal of Scaling Health...well that's convenient I guess lol. Must have got it from a rune combiner forever ago.
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Lissandra ult is instant hard CC.
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On April 08 2014 05:30 Ketara wrote:
Lissandra ult is instant hard CC.
The wiki claims
There is a ~0.4 seconds delay before the main target ( if it's an enemy) is stunned and damaged. If a champion becomes untargetable in that delay it will be able to avoid the damage and stun. The ice field will be formed anyways.
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If that's true it's never happened to me over several hundred Lissandra games.
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Baa?21248 Posts
On April 08 2014 04:11 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2014 04:00 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On April 08 2014 03:41 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 03:21 arb wrote:On April 08 2014 02:13 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 02:06 xes wrote:On April 08 2014 02:02 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 01:38 Dark_Chill wrote:
What would be cool is to have howl turn into an aoe fear. Makes sense with his theme (he's a werewolf hunting for blood, that's pretty scary). His ult is kinda pointless these days, when there are people who just have straight up better ones. Instead of stunning himself, maybe doing one claw attack to suppress the enemy while he can still move around.
The bigger thing I find problematic is the focus on aa for warwick when his ult is the only way to jump onto people and he's a melee with no other cc. Who has a spell that is straight up better than an instant cast 700 range suppress + blink? How about a 725 range dash that knocks back, followed by a 800 range linear AoE knockup, backed up with % max target HP damage and % max HP self-shield? Vi is quite good (obviously). But instantaneous CC has a lot of value, and Assault and Battery is certainly not straight up better than Infinite Duress. It is straight up better lol, she cant be stopped while casting, it does similar damage without locking you in place, and it knocks and damages anything in your way back lol. i dont see how thats not straight up better Instant > Telegraphed, medium speed dash? Huge cooldown differences aside, if I got to choose between having Assault and Battery or Infinite Duress on the champion I was playing, my choice would not always be the same. I feel like I'm repeating myself just saying instantaneous over and over. Infinite Duress might be the only instant, targeted CC in the game that can't miss (Whimsy and Terrify can fizzle on Playful Trickster but I don't think Infinite Duress can). What do you mean by can't miss? If you Whimsy them they're sheeped, if they pool/pole before you cast it means you didn't cast it and it doesn't go on CD. There's also Ryze W. It's possible to Playful Trickster in such a way that Whimsy goes on cooldown but does not affect you. This makes sense intuitively because Whimsy is a projectile and can be blocked by Wind Wall also. + Show Spoiler +User was warned for this post
Oh wait you're right it's a projectile I forgot that I see what you mean.
Well, anyways, there's still Malzahar ult and Rune Prison.
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I think the Lissandra interrupt got airtime in an LCS game, don't know if it got "fixed" or remains though.
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On April 08 2014 05:39 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2014 04:11 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 04:00 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On April 08 2014 03:41 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 03:21 arb wrote:On April 08 2014 02:13 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 02:06 xes wrote:On April 08 2014 02:02 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 01:38 Dark_Chill wrote:
What would be cool is to have howl turn into an aoe fear. Makes sense with his theme (he's a werewolf hunting for blood, that's pretty scary). His ult is kinda pointless these days, when there are people who just have straight up better ones. Instead of stunning himself, maybe doing one claw attack to suppress the enemy while he can still move around.
The bigger thing I find problematic is the focus on aa for warwick when his ult is the only way to jump onto people and he's a melee with no other cc. Who has a spell that is straight up better than an instant cast 700 range suppress + blink? How about a 725 range dash that knocks back, followed by a 800 range linear AoE knockup, backed up with % max target HP damage and % max HP self-shield? Vi is quite good (obviously). But instantaneous CC has a lot of value, and Assault and Battery is certainly not straight up better than Infinite Duress. It is straight up better lol, she cant be stopped while casting, it does similar damage without locking you in place, and it knocks and damages anything in your way back lol. i dont see how thats not straight up better Instant > Telegraphed, medium speed dash? Huge cooldown differences aside, if I got to choose between having Assault and Battery or Infinite Duress on the champion I was playing, my choice would not always be the same. I feel like I'm repeating myself just saying instantaneous over and over. Infinite Duress might be the only instant, targeted CC in the game that can't miss (Whimsy and Terrify can fizzle on Playful Trickster but I don't think Infinite Duress can). What do you mean by can't miss? If you Whimsy them they're sheeped, if they pool/pole before you cast it means you didn't cast it and it doesn't go on CD. There's also Ryze W. It's possible to Playful Trickster in such a way that Whimsy goes on cooldown but does not affect you. This makes sense intuitively because Whimsy is a projectile and can be blocked by Wind Wall also. + Show Spoiler +User was warned for this post Oh wait you're right it's a projectile I forgot that I see what you mean. Well, anyways, there's still Malzahar ult and Rune Prison.
Speaking of "Nether Grasp", I can't be the only one who sees it, right?
![[image loading]](http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110416190418/leagueoflegends/images/b/bc/Nether_Grasp.jpg)
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On April 08 2014 05:44 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2014 05:39 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On April 08 2014 04:11 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 04:00 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On April 08 2014 03:41 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 03:21 arb wrote:On April 08 2014 02:13 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 02:06 xes wrote:On April 08 2014 02:02 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 01:38 Dark_Chill wrote:
What would be cool is to have howl turn into an aoe fear. Makes sense with his theme (he's a werewolf hunting for blood, that's pretty scary). His ult is kinda pointless these days, when there are people who just have straight up better ones. Instead of stunning himself, maybe doing one claw attack to suppress the enemy while he can still move around.
The bigger thing I find problematic is the focus on aa for warwick when his ult is the only way to jump onto people and he's a melee with no other cc. Who has a spell that is straight up better than an instant cast 700 range suppress + blink? How about a 725 range dash that knocks back, followed by a 800 range linear AoE knockup, backed up with % max target HP damage and % max HP self-shield? Vi is quite good (obviously). But instantaneous CC has a lot of value, and Assault and Battery is certainly not straight up better than Infinite Duress. It is straight up better lol, she cant be stopped while casting, it does similar damage without locking you in place, and it knocks and damages anything in your way back lol. i dont see how thats not straight up better Instant > Telegraphed, medium speed dash? Huge cooldown differences aside, if I got to choose between having Assault and Battery or Infinite Duress on the champion I was playing, my choice would not always be the same. I feel like I'm repeating myself just saying instantaneous over and over. Infinite Duress might be the only instant, targeted CC in the game that can't miss (Whimsy and Terrify can fizzle on Playful Trickster but I don't think Infinite Duress can). What do you mean by can't miss? If you Whimsy them they're sheeped, if they pool/pole before you cast it means you didn't cast it and it doesn't go on CD. There's also Ryze W. It's possible to Playful Trickster in such a way that Whimsy goes on cooldown but does not affect you. This makes sense intuitively because Whimsy is a projectile and can be blocked by Wind Wall also. + Show Spoiler +User was warned for this post Oh wait you're right it's a projectile I forgot that I see what you mean. Well, anyways, there's still Malzahar ult and Rune Prison. Speaking of "Nether Grasp", I can't be the only one who sees it, right?
How do you think he spreads his space AIDS?
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On April 08 2014 05:30 Ketara wrote:
Lissandra ult is instant hard CC.
as a player who plays lissandra (see my quote below), i can attest this couldn't be further from the truth 
not only is her CC dodgeable, but good players can dodge it *with some ease*
on velocity esports, i helped frommaplestreet practice playing against lissandra ult with such champions as zed and fizz (when he was playing midlane for a stint). he could consistently dodge the ult, which is a disaster for lissandra, as the frozen zone and damage is still applied over an AoE - that likely has no targets in it.
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On April 08 2014 05:44 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2014 05:39 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On April 08 2014 04:11 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 04:00 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On April 08 2014 03:41 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 03:21 arb wrote:On April 08 2014 02:13 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 02:06 xes wrote:On April 08 2014 02:02 Alzadar wrote:On April 08 2014 01:38 Dark_Chill wrote:
What would be cool is to have howl turn into an aoe fear. Makes sense with his theme (he's a werewolf hunting for blood, that's pretty scary). His ult is kinda pointless these days, when there are people who just have straight up better ones. Instead of stunning himself, maybe doing one claw attack to suppress the enemy while he can still move around.
The bigger thing I find problematic is the focus on aa for warwick when his ult is the only way to jump onto people and he's a melee with no other cc. Who has a spell that is straight up better than an instant cast 700 range suppress + blink? How about a 725 range dash that knocks back, followed by a 800 range linear AoE knockup, backed up with % max target HP damage and % max HP self-shield? Vi is quite good (obviously). But instantaneous CC has a lot of value, and Assault and Battery is certainly not straight up better than Infinite Duress. It is straight up better lol, she cant be stopped while casting, it does similar damage without locking you in place, and it knocks and damages anything in your way back lol. i dont see how thats not straight up better Instant > Telegraphed, medium speed dash? Huge cooldown differences aside, if I got to choose between having Assault and Battery or Infinite Duress on the champion I was playing, my choice would not always be the same. I feel like I'm repeating myself just saying instantaneous over and over. Infinite Duress might be the only instant, targeted CC in the game that can't miss (Whimsy and Terrify can fizzle on Playful Trickster but I don't think Infinite Duress can). What do you mean by can't miss? If you Whimsy them they're sheeped, if they pool/pole before you cast it means you didn't cast it and it doesn't go on CD. There's also Ryze W. It's possible to Playful Trickster in such a way that Whimsy goes on cooldown but does not affect you. This makes sense intuitively because Whimsy is a projectile and can be blocked by Wind Wall also. + Show Spoiler +User was warned for this post Oh wait you're right it's a projectile I forgot that I see what you mean. Well, anyways, there's still Malzahar ult and Rune Prison. Speaking of "Nether Grasp", I can't be the only one who sees it, right?
That's a really old joke, but yes it's been there for ages
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EPT
