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On March 01 2014 10:25 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 10:15 Talack wrote:On March 01 2014 10:13 Gahlo wrote:On March 01 2014 10:02 Talack wrote:On March 01 2014 05:42 Omnishroud wrote:
Wait, kayle ult costs nothing? since when? and this is alongside a buffed heal (ok still shit) and no changes to Q slow? dafuq that support potential. His heal before the change was 100-50-25 or 100-75-50. "That' was retarded. Kayle ult costing nothing has almost 0 balance related issues and it should be treated as if always up and she can always cast it anyways. Kayle is FAR from OP, this is coming from someone who had almost 70 games and an 80% win rate in s3 with her (carried me to plat woo woo). One of these things is not like the other~ Have a 82% win rate on tristana this season over 16 games, does that make her OP? Dyrus: Tryndamere 24 7 77.4% Tryndamere OP!? 80% winrate over 70 games is far more significant than 80% winrate over 16 games or 75% winrate over 24 games. That said, winrate isn't everything. While I do think Kayle is a bit strong I find it hilarious how people are qqing over Kayle OP when not even a month ago the majority of people were saying how Riot killed Kayle with the Q nerf.
31 for tryn, guess that's not a large enough sample size for people, I'm not willing to do enough research to find people who have done exceptionally well on a hero and thus are an "outlier" to continue this.
Kayle isn't OP, she's good vs this assassin/tank based meta is all.
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On March 01 2014 10:20 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 10:15 Talack wrote:On March 01 2014 10:13 Gahlo wrote:On March 01 2014 10:02 Talack wrote:On March 01 2014 05:42 Omnishroud wrote:
Wait, kayle ult costs nothing? since when? and this is alongside a buffed heal (ok still shit) and no changes to Q slow? dafuq that support potential. His heal before the change was 100-50-25 or 100-75-50. "That' was retarded. Kayle ult costing nothing has almost 0 balance related issues and it should be treated as if always up and she can always cast it anyways. Kayle is FAR from OP, this is coming from someone who had almost 70 games and an 80% win rate in s3 with her (carried me to plat woo woo). One of these things is not like the other~ Have a 82% win rate on tristana this season over 16 games, does that make her OP? Dyrus: Tryndamere 24 7 77.4% Tryndamere OP!? It comes down to significant sample sizes. For me, that means 50+.
cause thats not arbitrary at all
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Damn. Just had 2 trolls in my team, Brand/Tristana that went mid. AP trist + AD Brand + Thresh solo bot + Riven top and I had to jungle with Cait.
I have to admit that jungle Cait is pretty decent and her level6 + ganks are decent as well, lol. We lost that game because opponent team had Jax and we didn't push mid as 5 in time but game was close. Almost 40 minutes and we were leading 11-3 in early game, lol.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
people take some time to adjust to playing against something.
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promoted to diamond 4, yay. hopefully i can get to d1/challenger by the end of this season.
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On March 01 2014 10:40 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 10:20 Gahlo wrote:On March 01 2014 10:15 Talack wrote:On March 01 2014 10:13 Gahlo wrote:On March 01 2014 10:02 Talack wrote:On March 01 2014 05:42 Omnishroud wrote:
Wait, kayle ult costs nothing? since when? and this is alongside a buffed heal (ok still shit) and no changes to Q slow? dafuq that support potential. His heal before the change was 100-50-25 or 100-75-50. "That' was retarded. Kayle ult costing nothing has almost 0 balance related issues and it should be treated as if always up and she can always cast it anyways. Kayle is FAR from OP, this is coming from someone who had almost 70 games and an 80% win rate in s3 with her (carried me to plat woo woo). One of these things is not like the other~ Have a 82% win rate on tristana this season over 16 games, does that make her OP? Dyrus: Tryndamere 24 7 77.4% Tryndamere OP!? It comes down to significant sample sizes. For me, that means 50+. cause thats not arbitrary at all
You're not a stats guy are you?
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Spellthief produces hilarious income on Zyra. She has high auto range, frequently pokes turrets, and Q/E+plants are great at getting hits in. I ended up with 1800 bonus gold in a 30 minute game; my build was edge, frostfang, sightstone, boots, claim, mobis (not particularly happy with the change, but it seemed okay), banner, rylais. I do miss having the talisman active, but that much gold really makes an impact in teamfighting.
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On March 01 2014 10:14 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 10:09 JazzVortical wrote:On March 01 2014 10:02 Talack wrote:On March 01 2014 05:42 Omnishroud wrote:
Wait, kayle ult costs nothing? since when? and this is alongside a buffed heal (ok still shit) and no changes to Q slow? dafuq that support potential. His heal before the change was 100-50-25 or 100-75-50. "That' was retarded. Kayle ult costing nothing has almost 0 balance related issues and it should be treated as if always up and she can always cast it anyways. Kayle is FAR from OP, this is coming from someone who had almost 70 games and an 80% win rate in s3 with her (carried me to plat woo woo). Should we apply that to all ults? Just because it makes sense for one hero doesn't mean to should apply to all heros. Why would you even ask that question when you know what the response would be...
Because that logic can be applied to every skill in the game. That's why. Therefore every ult should be 0, because we should fight assuming they are up.
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Seems like they're getting more lenient with Significant Sample Size.
I was taught 25 in school and now I hear they're teaching 20 is sufficient.
XWX is getting smashed as Yasuo. Did those nerfs really do that much?
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On March 01 2014 11:46 silencefc wrote:
Seems like they're getting more lenient with Significant Sample Size.
I was taught 25 in school and now I hear they're teaching 20 is sufficient.
XWX is getting smashed as Yasuo. Did those nerfs really do that much?
Depends on what you're looking to do. That's low for clt or anything coool like. Luster or factor analysis. Other simple stuff depends on the observed effect.
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Mobis are better for support worse for junglers. 200 less gold for mobis is big on Leona, Annie, Thresh who want to rush it. FrostGP5 line is dumb it gives unbalanced amount of gold the active is bad and the stat distribution is meh.
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On March 01 2014 11:35 MidnightGladius wrote:
Spellthief produces hilarious income on Zyra. She has high auto range, frequently pokes turrets, and Q/E+plants are great at getting hits in. I ended up with 1800 bonus gold in a 30 minute game; my build was edge, frostfang, sightstone, boots, claim, mobis (not particularly happy with the change, but it seemed okay), banner, rylais. I do miss having the talisman active, but that much gold really makes an impact in teamfighting.
Morg is pretty silly too. Drop puddle on people, garunteed at least 2 stacks.
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On March 01 2014 11:51 Eppa! wrote:
Mobis are better for support worse for junglers. 200 less gold for mobis is big on Leona, Annie, Thresh who want to rush it. FrostGP5 line is dumb it gives unbalanced amount of gold the active is bad and the stat distribution is meh.
Frost Queen's new active is pretty cool.
It's a skill shot that explodes at the end so you can carpet a whole team fight with it.
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I expect spellthief line to get nerfed pretty soon. It's giving like 3 times more gold than ancient coin.
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On March 01 2014 12:30 GolemMadness wrote:
I expect spellthief line to get nerfed pretty soon. It's giving like 3 times more gold than ancient coin.
3x is an exaggeration.
It's between 1.5x and 2x as much, consistently.
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On March 01 2014 12:50 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 12:30 GolemMadness wrote:
I expect spellthief line to get nerfed pretty soon. It's giving like 3 times more gold than ancient coin. 3x is an exaggeration. It's between 1.5x and 2x as much, consistently.
Am I the only person who found it pretty hard to keep using the stacks? You miss out while moving to lane, you miss out if you ever have to shove the lane (and get cs from it.) You miss out if they ever recall and you don't immediately shove tower, and as soon as laning ends you basically stop getting gold from it, whereas meddalion would give you 40-50 each time you go with your adc to shove out a lane/18 gold each time your team wipes a wave while sieging/defending.
I'm probably not quite playing it right, but I'm pretty sure that by the 15-20 minute mark of a normal game, I've not gotten considerably (as in enough for more then a ruby crystal or something) more gold then the medallion line would have given, and as good as the aoe slow is, I highly doubt it's worth losing out on the talisman active unless you'd get some considerable advantage for laning/teamfighting from going spellthiefs edge line.In terms of the extra gold, even assuming you use the stacks I don't think sacking the pretty huge regen + active + 10% extra cdr is worth the 40 ap + a few hundred extra gold either. And it just takes one kill caused by your talisman active (just one person who you chase who you wouldn't have caught otherwise) and talisman has now been more effective for your team just in terms of gold.
And the lack of any health regen is pretty harsh too, I mean if you perfectly use your stacks every time they're up, that's 30 extra damage every 30s. Coin heals 30 health a wave (30s) by default just from minions, unless you somehow force them off the wave, and that's ignoring the resists that reduce the spellthief damage. This gets worse if you both upgrade, as frostfang givse 45 extra damage per 30s, while medallion heals 60 (70 if cannon) a wave, plus another 15 from the passive. So unless the 45 extra damage lets you oneshot them, they will have healed all the extra damage in like 15s, then have another 15s of free healing, giving them an extra 40-50 health before you can even think about applying stacks again.
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Ok, a bit of an exaggeration, but it's definitely a lot. You miss out on the gold while moving to lane with the other items as well. In fact, you get more gold with frost queen because it gives the most GP10. From my experience so far, I'm getting over 1,500 gold from it 35 minutes in.
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I feel like it should give more gold then the coin line, if you use it well. You should be rewarded for 'getting into harm's way' Maybe if its problematic, drop the passive gold, rather than the harass gold.
I feel like the shield line got a little dudded.
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On March 01 2014 10:38 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 10:25 Ryuu314 wrote:On March 01 2014 10:15 Talack wrote:On March 01 2014 10:13 Gahlo wrote:On March 01 2014 10:02 Talack wrote:On March 01 2014 05:42 Omnishroud wrote:
Wait, kayle ult costs nothing? since when? and this is alongside a buffed heal (ok still shit) and no changes to Q slow? dafuq that support potential. His heal before the change was 100-50-25 or 100-75-50. "That' was retarded. Kayle ult costing nothing has almost 0 balance related issues and it should be treated as if always up and she can always cast it anyways. Kayle is FAR from OP, this is coming from someone who had almost 70 games and an 80% win rate in s3 with her (carried me to plat woo woo). One of these things is not like the other~ Have a 82% win rate on tristana this season over 16 games, does that make her OP? Dyrus: Tryndamere 24 7 77.4% Tryndamere OP!? 80% winrate over 70 games is far more significant than 80% winrate over 16 games or 75% winrate over 24 games. That said, winrate isn't everything. While I do think Kayle is a bit strong I find it hilarious how people are qqing over Kayle OP when not even a month ago the majority of people were saying how Riot killed Kayle with the Q nerf. 31 for tryn, guess that's not a large enough sample size for people, I'm not willing to do enough research to find people who have done exceptionally well on a hero and thus are an "outlier" to continue this. Kayle isn't OP, she's good vs this assassin/tank based meta is all.
It's certainly a smaller sample size than 70. Basically, the point is that if you're trying to argue Kayle isn't op, touting a 80% winrate over 70 games (which is quite a lot) is not the strongest way to make your point.
On March 01 2014 10:40 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 10:20 Gahlo wrote:On March 01 2014 10:15 Talack wrote:On March 01 2014 10:13 Gahlo wrote:On March 01 2014 10:02 Talack wrote:On March 01 2014 05:42 Omnishroud wrote:
Wait, kayle ult costs nothing? since when? and this is alongside a buffed heal (ok still shit) and no changes to Q slow? dafuq that support potential. His heal before the change was 100-50-25 or 100-75-50. "That' was retarded. Kayle ult costing nothing has almost 0 balance related issues and it should be treated as if always up and she can always cast it anyways. Kayle is FAR from OP, this is coming from someone who had almost 70 games and an 80% win rate in s3 with her (carried me to plat woo woo). One of these things is not like the other~ Have a 82% win rate on tristana this season over 16 games, does that make her OP? Dyrus: Tryndamere 24 7 77.4% Tryndamere OP!? It comes down to significant sample sizes. For me, that means 50+. cause thats not arbitrary at all
I don't know how Gahlo chose the number 50, but it's not completely arbitrary. Sample size of 50 is enough to give you reasonably high confidence levels.
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EPT
