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On March 13 2014 09:05 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 08:58 lefty wrote:
To give a background, In the past 5 years literally every big professional sport in Korea (baseball, soccer, basketball, volleyball) has had a match fixing scandal. The government has a monopoly on sport gambling(Sports ToTo), with beyond atrocious odds and a very low limit of $ you can bet. Because of such reasons, there is a thriving illegal gambling business, and with the type of people who would be interested in running such things, you get match fixing. LoL is just another category you can bet in.
I honestly don't know if there is a way to stop this. Riot's way of running the LCS is probably better for players, as they are guaranteed $$. Even if you're part of a big team in Korea, they're making fractions of what NA/EU players make. It's probably impossible as Korea has middlemen such as OGN administrating the tournament who need a cut of the revenue. All it takes is one player to fix a game, and I'm absolutely sure these guys get tempting offers from bookies to fix games. I don't understand how deregulating gambling can solve match fixing.
Who is suggesting that?
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On March 13 2014 08:58 lefty wrote:
To give a background, In the past 5 years literally every big professional sport in Korea (baseball, soccer, basketball, volleyball) has had a match fixing scandal. The government has a monopoly on sport gambling(Sports ToTo), with beyond atrocious odds and a very low limit of $ you can bet. Because of such reasons, there is a thriving illegal gambling business, and with the type of people who would be interested in running such things, you get match fixing. LoL is just another category you can bet in.
Damn. It's that serious? :/ Thanks for clarifying. Helps explain why it's taken so seriously by the country and a lot of the sponsors.
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On March 13 2014 08:37 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 08:35 Amethyst21 wrote:
Welp, RIP LoL's boom period in Korea Hardly. The scene won't get hurt from this. The way it was presented is so the blame is solely on the manager and not a reflection of the scene itself.
The BW scene was even bigger in korea than lol is right now, and that matchfixing scandal crippled it. Its not just the fall out from one team throwing matches, its the witch hunts that follow every time a upset happens or someone makes a stupid play, its the fact that the Korean Government is very anti gaming at the moment, and this will give them a excuse to crack down, its the fact that no one can be entirely certain that results are legitimate any more. All that put together is Kyrptonite to sponsors, and thats assuming that this is the sole instance of matchfixing that will proven instead of just whispered about. This could kill esports in Korea all together, not just lol.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 13 2014 09:05 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 08:58 lefty wrote:
To give a background, In the past 5 years literally every big professional sport in Korea (baseball, soccer, basketball, volleyball) has had a match fixing scandal. The government has a monopoly on sport gambling(Sports ToTo), with beyond atrocious odds and a very low limit of $ you can bet. Because of such reasons, there is a thriving illegal gambling business, and with the type of people who would be interested in running such things, you get match fixing. LoL is just another category you can bet in.
I honestly don't know if there is a way to stop this. Riot's way of running the LCS is probably better for players, as they are guaranteed $$. Even if you're part of a big team in Korea, they're making fractions of what NA/EU players make. It's probably impossible as Korea has middlemen such as OGN administrating the tournament who need a cut of the revenue. All it takes is one player to fix a game, and I'm absolutely sure these guys get tempting offers from bookies to fix games. I don't understand how deregulating gambling can solve match fixing.
if they can capture a portion of gambling revenue and funnel that to players, as disincentive against gambling, then it could work. because survival of the whole business is dependent on them not gambling. but obviously that won't happen
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On March 13 2014 09:05 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 08:58 lefty wrote:
To give a background, In the past 5 years literally every big professional sport in Korea (baseball, soccer, basketball, volleyball) has had a match fixing scandal. The government has a monopoly on sport gambling(Sports ToTo), with beyond atrocious odds and a very low limit of $ you can bet. Because of such reasons, there is a thriving illegal gambling business, and with the type of people who would be interested in running such things, you get match fixing. LoL is just another category you can bet in.
I honestly don't know if there is a way to stop this. Riot's way of running the LCS is probably better for players, as they are guaranteed $$. Even if you're part of a big team in Korea, they're making fractions of what NA/EU players make. It's probably impossible as Korea has middlemen such as OGN administrating the tournament who need a cut of the revenue. All it takes is one player to fix a game, and I'm absolutely sure these guys get tempting offers from bookies to fix games. I don't understand how deregulating gambling can solve match fixing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_market
Overtaxation and overregulation create profligate black markets. In some industries the black market will greatly exceed the revenues of the white market. In some countries, like Greece, nearly 50% of ALL income is unreported because of these factors. When a black market gets big enough, the players in said market get rich enough to buy off bureaucrats (corruption). Some groups will use this fact to exploit the lack of rule-of-law in the market area by fixing an event (usually an irrelevant event that will see a surprising amount of betting). Then, even if the throw is caught after the fact, there is no repercussions, because what does the cheated party do? Tell the police that they lost $50k unfairly while betting illegally?
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On March 13 2014 09:14 Jaaaaasper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 08:37 wei2coolman wrote:On March 13 2014 08:35 Amethyst21 wrote:
Welp, RIP LoL's boom period in Korea Hardly. The scene won't get hurt from this. The way it was presented is so the blame is solely on the manager and not a reflection of the scene itself. The BW scene was even bigger in korea than lol is right now, and that matchfixing scandal crippled it.
I don't want to sound unfriendly but can you back that up with something because somehow I can hardly believe that bw years ago was bigger then lol today. Just look at the viewers at lol worlds and players counts of lol today. It is probably much more then bw was at that time.
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I think everyone is jut over blowing it with the end of eSports in Korea. like lol....
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On March 13 2014 09:40 TitusVI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 09:14 Jaaaaasper wrote:On March 13 2014 08:37 wei2coolman wrote:On March 13 2014 08:35 Amethyst21 wrote:
Welp, RIP LoL's boom period in Korea Hardly. The scene won't get hurt from this. The way it was presented is so the blame is solely on the manager and not a reflection of the scene itself. The BW scene was even bigger in korea than lol is right now, and that matchfixing scandal crippled it. I don't want to sound unfriendly but can you back that up with something because somehow I can hardly believe that bw years ago was bigger then lol today. Just look at the viewers at lol worlds and players counts of lol today. It is probably much more then bw was at that time.
Well player counts and viewer totals are worldwide streaming which basically didn't exist during BW. Certainly not the way they do today. Also BW was nearly all korea, where as LoL is much more global.
S3 championships:
+ Show Spoiler +
2006 Proleague finals BW:
+ Show Spoiler +
S3 championships had ~15k crowd generously, compared to pretty definite audiences of 40+k for BW events, with numbers like 80k being mentioned.
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On March 13 2014 09:41 Yezzus wrote:
I think everyone is jut over blowing it with the end of eSports in Korea. like lol....
Its not going to be the end, but it is definitely a huge blow to the scene. Expect laws to be passed, huge restrictions placed on aspiring teams, etc.
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Honestly, there just needs to be an anonymous hotline for players set up by OGN/kespa that answers any and all questions, deals with allegations of abuse etc with limited immunity from prosecution for whistleblowing.
That's most of the change that needs to happen.
It'll definitely hurt the scene but I doubt anyone could argue that the top teams (CJ/KT/SKT) are there because of any of this.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 13 2014 09:40 TitusVI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 09:14 Jaaaaasper wrote:On March 13 2014 08:37 wei2coolman wrote:On March 13 2014 08:35 Amethyst21 wrote:
Welp, RIP LoL's boom period in Korea Hardly. The scene won't get hurt from this. The way it was presented is so the blame is solely on the manager and not a reflection of the scene itself. The BW scene was even bigger in korea than lol is right now, and that matchfixing scandal crippled it. I don't want to sound unfriendly but can you back that up with something because somehow I can hardly believe that bw years ago was bigger then lol today. Just look at the viewers at lol worlds and players counts of lol today. It is probably much more then bw was at that time.
he meant within korea bw was bigger than the lol scene in korea right now. this is pretty much indisputable
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On March 13 2014 09:39 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 09:05 Sufficiency wrote:On March 13 2014 08:58 lefty wrote:
To give a background, In the past 5 years literally every big professional sport in Korea (baseball, soccer, basketball, volleyball) has had a match fixing scandal. The government has a monopoly on sport gambling(Sports ToTo), with beyond atrocious odds and a very low limit of $ you can bet. Because of such reasons, there is a thriving illegal gambling business, and with the type of people who would be interested in running such things, you get match fixing. LoL is just another category you can bet in.
I honestly don't know if there is a way to stop this. Riot's way of running the LCS is probably better for players, as they are guaranteed $$. Even if you're part of a big team in Korea, they're making fractions of what NA/EU players make. It's probably impossible as Korea has middlemen such as OGN administrating the tournament who need a cut of the revenue. All it takes is one player to fix a game, and I'm absolutely sure these guys get tempting offers from bookies to fix games. I don't understand how deregulating gambling can solve match fixing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_marketOvertaxation and overregulation create profligate black markets. In some industries the black market will greatly exceed the revenues of the white market. In some countries, like Greece, nearly 50% of ALL income is unreported because of these factors. When a black market gets big enough, the players in said market get rich enough to buy off bureaucrats (corruption). Some groups will use this fact to exploit the lack of rule-of-law in the market area by fixing an event (usually an irrelevant event that will see a surprising amount of betting). Then, even if the throw is caught after the fact, there is no repercussions, because what does the cheated party do? Tell the police that they lost $50k unfairly while betting illegally?
There isn't any reason for gambling to not be monopolized. Efficiencies in gambling are almost always towards efficiencies of scale, such that you would expect a single larger player to "win" the market anyway. A government monopoly would be the most efficient, since government won't have profit and will not work against regulations which would increase the value to everyone.
deregulating the market would not make it harder to cheat as a gambling organization, rather it would do the opposite, it would make it much easier to cheat.
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Doing all these ETL stuff with Eiii's data made me question why the hell did I not just get 16GB of RAM for my desktop.
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jesus I hope Promise is ok and they catch this fucking scumbag holy shit
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Is EUW dead? Cant login keep getting connection error after logging on sign
EDIT: This will have little to no effect on korea's LoL scene, you guys need to stop being so OTT lol.
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On March 13 2014 08:40 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 08:37 wei2coolman wrote:On March 13 2014 08:35 Amethyst21 wrote:
Welp, RIP LoL's boom period in Korea Hardly. The scene won't get hurt from this. The way it was presented is so the blame is solely on the manager and not a reflection of the scene itself. I would be surprised if they dont prosecute the guy and don't dig into it and find more. There is no way you can have a front team for gambling purposes with a potential payoff big enough that you go to loan sharks for the risk and you are the only team taking part and none of your players are involved. Though LoL is big enough this won't kill it but it will definitely have an impact on the scene in some way.
I mean, as far as the details show so far, that it was an act perpetrated by a single individual. If this truly is the case, then I don't see it taking a hit. If the story is larger than it lends itself to be, then yeah, I could see it being a big deal.
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United States7639 Posts
On March 13 2014 09:53 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 09:40 TitusVI wrote:On March 13 2014 09:14 Jaaaaasper wrote:On March 13 2014 08:37 wei2coolman wrote:On March 13 2014 08:35 Amethyst21 wrote:
Welp, RIP LoL's boom period in Korea Hardly. The scene won't get hurt from this. The way it was presented is so the blame is solely on the manager and not a reflection of the scene itself. The BW scene was even bigger in korea than lol is right now, and that matchfixing scandal crippled it. I don't want to sound unfriendly but can you back that up with something because somehow I can hardly believe that bw years ago was bigger then lol today. Just look at the viewers at lol worlds and players counts of lol today. It is probably much more then bw was at that time. Well player counts and viewer totals are worldwide streaming which basically didn't exist during BW. Certainly not the way they do today. Also BW was nearly all korea, where as LoL is much more global. S3 championships: + Show Spoiler + 2006 Proleague finals BW: + Show Spoiler +S3 championships had ~15k crowd generously, compared to pretty definite audiences of 40+k for BW events, with numbers like 80k being mentioned.
That's such a dumb way to compare numbers. Proleague finals were free events. Anyone who wanted to show up could just show up and get a seat. They took place on a popular beach in Busan, where plenty of normal and casually interested people could just pass by and join in on the hubbub. The S3 championship took place in the Staples center, with limited space, and where tickets sold out within an hour were getting resold for hundreds and thousands of dollars. I myself threw out 200 bucks to get floor seats; the guy next to me told me he paid $450 for his. No shit more people show up to a free event than the one where you have to chuck tons of money and an arm and a leg to get a ticket. TBH, I don't have an opinion on either side of this argument, but comparing events with totally different circumstances is stupid and pretty poor evidence.
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On March 13 2014 09:54 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 09:41 Yezzus wrote:
I think everyone is jut over blowing it with the end of eSports in Korea. like lol.... Its not going to be the end, but it is definitely a huge blow to the scene. Expect laws to be passed, huge restrictions placed on aspiring teams, etc.
Laws to be passed? LOL dude you cant be serious.
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On March 13 2014 10:06 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 09:39 cLutZ wrote:On March 13 2014 09:05 Sufficiency wrote:On March 13 2014 08:58 lefty wrote:
To give a background, In the past 5 years literally every big professional sport in Korea (baseball, soccer, basketball, volleyball) has had a match fixing scandal. The government has a monopoly on sport gambling(Sports ToTo), with beyond atrocious odds and a very low limit of $ you can bet. Because of such reasons, there is a thriving illegal gambling business, and with the type of people who would be interested in running such things, you get match fixing. LoL is just another category you can bet in.
I honestly don't know if there is a way to stop this. Riot's way of running the LCS is probably better for players, as they are guaranteed $$. Even if you're part of a big team in Korea, they're making fractions of what NA/EU players make. It's probably impossible as Korea has middlemen such as OGN administrating the tournament who need a cut of the revenue. All it takes is one player to fix a game, and I'm absolutely sure these guys get tempting offers from bookies to fix games. I don't understand how deregulating gambling can solve match fixing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_marketOvertaxation and overregulation create profligate black markets. In some industries the black market will greatly exceed the revenues of the white market. In some countries, like Greece, nearly 50% of ALL income is unreported because of these factors. When a black market gets big enough, the players in said market get rich enough to buy off bureaucrats (corruption). Some groups will use this fact to exploit the lack of rule-of-law in the market area by fixing an event (usually an irrelevant event that will see a surprising amount of betting). Then, even if the throw is caught after the fact, there is no repercussions, because what does the cheated party do? Tell the police that they lost $50k unfairly while betting illegally? There isn't any reason for gambling to not be monopolized. Efficiencies in gambling are almost always towards efficiencies of scale, such that you would expect a single larger player to "win" the market anyway. A government monopoly would be the most efficient, since government won't have profit and will not work against regulations which would increase the value to everyone. deregulating the market would not make it harder to cheat as a gambling organization, rather it would do the opposite, it would make it much easier to cheat.
That is just a straight up false statement of economics. It would only be true if the monopoly was run efficiently and was run with the intent of being efficient. Deregulation in the airline industries, for instance exposed massive waste. Deregulation of pot is seeing some success in the USA, and government run or regulated monopolies like electric companies or telecoms are notoriously horrid.
Deregulation of "sins" has consistently removed the criminal element provided that it is a country with otherwise strong courts and law enforcement.
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On March 13 2014 10:07 Sufficiency wrote:
Doing all these ETL stuff with Eiii's data made me question why the hell did I not just get 16GB of RAM for my desktop.
Don't you just L once since Eii did the E and the T can't be that bad unless the raw data is a huge mess.
Unless you mean querying is slow, in which case there probably isn't a better solution, except maybe piping it into SAS which is more efficient at computations.
On March 13 2014 11:22 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 10:06 Goumindong wrote:On March 13 2014 09:39 cLutZ wrote:On March 13 2014 09:05 Sufficiency wrote:On March 13 2014 08:58 lefty wrote:
To give a background, In the past 5 years literally every big professional sport in Korea (baseball, soccer, basketball, volleyball) has had a match fixing scandal. The government has a monopoly on sport gambling(Sports ToTo), with beyond atrocious odds and a very low limit of $ you can bet. Because of such reasons, there is a thriving illegal gambling business, and with the type of people who would be interested in running such things, you get match fixing. LoL is just another category you can bet in.
I honestly don't know if there is a way to stop this. Riot's way of running the LCS is probably better for players, as they are guaranteed $$. Even if you're part of a big team in Korea, they're making fractions of what NA/EU players make. It's probably impossible as Korea has middlemen such as OGN administrating the tournament who need a cut of the revenue. All it takes is one player to fix a game, and I'm absolutely sure these guys get tempting offers from bookies to fix games. I don't understand how deregulating gambling can solve match fixing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_marketOvertaxation and overregulation create profligate black markets. In some industries the black market will greatly exceed the revenues of the white market. In some countries, like Greece, nearly 50% of ALL income is unreported because of these factors. When a black market gets big enough, the players in said market get rich enough to buy off bureaucrats (corruption). Some groups will use this fact to exploit the lack of rule-of-law in the market area by fixing an event (usually an irrelevant event that will see a surprising amount of betting). Then, even if the throw is caught after the fact, there is no repercussions, because what does the cheated party do? Tell the police that they lost $50k unfairly while betting illegally? There isn't any reason for gambling to not be monopolized. Efficiencies in gambling are almost always towards efficiencies of scale, such that you would expect a single larger player to "win" the market anyway. A government monopoly would be the most efficient, since government won't have profit and will not work against regulations which would increase the value to everyone. deregulating the market would not make it harder to cheat as a gambling organization, rather it would do the opposite, it would make it much easier to cheat. That is just a straight up false statement of economics. It would only be true if the monopoly was run efficiently and was run with the intent of being efficient. Deregulation in the airline industries, for instance exposed massive waste. Deregulation of pot is seeing some success in the USA, and government run or regulated monopolies like electric companies or telecoms are notoriously horrid. Deregulation of "sins" has consistently removed the criminal element provided that it is a country with otherwise strong courts and law enforcement.
Are you an economist? Because Goumindong is an economist and thus knows better than you.
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