• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:30
CET 05:30
KST 13:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League64Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War [Recap] 0-6 Defeat for Mong's Team Bot on ladder Young Players Tournament Announced by SOOP Starcraft player cRuZa Passed away.
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7971 users

[Patch 4.2] Xerath/Skarner General Discussion - Page 45

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 43 44 45 46 47 139 Next
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
February 14 2014 20:21 GMT
#881
On February 15 2014 04:41 AsmodeusXI wrote:
[image loading]

Fuck.

Now I want that.

Dammit.

Also, random thought. It'd be hilarious if Yasuo's Wind Wall could block Lee Sin's Flying Kick on 2nd Q proc.

Is it just me or it would be cool if Summoner's Rift have a city theme?
Purple side will be Valve's Headquarter, blue is Riot's.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
February 14 2014 20:41 GMT
#882
Made a Reddit thread about invisibility in LoL, was curious what TL thought (as you guys have awesome insight). Always felt LoL could use a SC2 "ripple effect" system.

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1xxe1l/riot_has_stated_they_want_counterplay_for_skilled/
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22675 Posts
February 14 2014 20:49 GMT
#883
On February 15 2014 05:41 Diamond wrote:
Made a Reddit thread about invisibility in LoL, was curious what TL thought (as you guys have awesome insight). Always felt LoL could use a SC2 "ripple effect" system.

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1xxe1l/riot_has_stated_they_want_counterplay_for_skilled/

It works in SC2 because your attention is divided to a dozen places

It would be mostly useless in LoL because your 'almost' never going to be surprised.

It makes it that you either see it coming and avoid the gank or whatever
Or you see it coming and you know your dead because you cant avoid it anymore.

Adds nothing much over an actual champion being there instead.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Kyrie
Profile Joined June 2013
1594 Posts
February 14 2014 20:54 GMT
#884
rippling is never going to happen in league - i would bet that it was one of the first obvious stealth design options to be thrown out the window at riot. forcing players to constantly scan the map is 'artificial' (huge weasel word, but i think it's appropriate here) difficulty that is absurdly annoying to manage while not taking very much strategic thought, the latter being the difficulty sell of wizard football. needless mechanical difficulty, especially the kind that requires apm more than any kind of planning, is not 'good' for the game
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-14 20:56:55
February 14 2014 20:54 GMT
#885
I feel like this was discussed a long time ago when Riot was discussing ways to deal with invisibility, and the Riot answer was that the difference in effectiveness based on burden of knowledge is too high.

That is, if you make detection "skill-based", then it becomes hard to balance the mechanic at different levels of play because the effectiveness of invisibility varies hugely based on the skill level of the game, more so than other existing mechanics in the game.
Moderator
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
February 14 2014 20:55 GMT
#886
On February 15 2014 05:54 TheYango wrote:
I feel like this was discussed a long time ago when Riot was discussing ways to deal with invisibility, and the Riot answer was that the difference in effectiveness based on burden of knowledge is too high.

That is, if you make detection "skill-based", then it becomes hard to balance the mechanic at different levels of play because the effectiveness of invisibility varies hugely based on the skill level of the game, more so than other existing mechanics in the game.


Oh I never knew it had been brought up by Riot before, oops.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-14 20:58:26
February 14 2014 20:56 GMT
#887
Most of what Riot is looking for in "skill-based counterplay" involves mechanics where the effectiveness depends both on the skill of the user and the target, so the power level of the ability is balanced across many levels of play (skillshots are an example of this). As you improve, both you and your opponent get better at using and responding to the skill, so its balanced even while depending on your skill.

The invisibility blur doesn't fall into this because it's entirely on the target whether they recognize the blur or not. It's effectiveness ONLY depends on the skill level of the target meaning the skill is progressively more powerful at low levels and progressively less powerful at high levels.
Moderator
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
February 14 2014 20:59 GMT
#888
It also messes hard with short duration stealth, like Talon or Wukong, because jukes and stuff are the only thing letting them escape. If you know where they're going, then there's no point anymore (kinda the same with Akali's shroud as an escape).
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
IamPryda
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1186 Posts
February 14 2014 21:13 GMT
#889
I prefer anything over the days where top lane was kennen jayce rumble and old khazix and if you want to play someone else tough shit your not winning your lane
Moar banelings less qq
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-14 21:19:15
February 14 2014 21:17 GMT
#890
We won a game. Our team had Garen+Wukong+Katarina+2 feeders.
Basically #spin2win #spincity.
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21248 Posts
February 14 2014 21:23 GMT
#891
On February 15 2014 06:13 IamPryda wrote:
I prefer anything over the days where top lane was kennen jayce rumble and old khazix and if you want to play someone else tough shit your not winning your lane


There was never a point in time when those four heroes were strong in top lane together, with no one else.
TranslatorBaa!
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
February 14 2014 21:25 GMT
#892
I think Riot has moved in the wrong direction with stealth, and its not really close to being healthy right now.

I think there are two kinds of Stealth: Eve + Hard stealth.

Eve is really quite difficult to balance because just from a monetary standpoint, fighting against an Eve is a gigantic burden. Almost everywhere you put a Green ward normally, you actually need a Pink (aka 50g more spent, plus now you only get 5 per team, so that exacerbates the opportunity cost of protecting a flank). On top of that, you actually need pink wards in places that you never needed wards before. That is why she is hard to balance, because when you account for the cost investment in countering Eve, its nearly the equivalent to what she would be earning during a game, and "should" be balanced by her basically being a wet noodle (which she was for a long time). The only way to really beat an Eve is to be a very accurate guesser, so that is unhealthy.

Hard stealth is slightly less hard to balance, because usually it costs 125g (or now a sweeper) to counter and secure the kill. But its still a problem to balance because the balance team needs to approximate the number of times a team will need to use a pink to secure a kill, and deduct that champion's power accordingly. The amount of times will obviously vary from game to game so its a hard thing to do, but overall not Eve hard. Its more in line with balancing out something like Arcane Shift.
Freeeeeeedom
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
February 14 2014 21:39 GMT
#893
i just tried both of them and i think lulu jungle is probably more viable than nautilus right now.
IMoperator
Profile Joined October 2011
4476 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-14 21:50:10
February 14 2014 21:50 GMT
#894
if apdo wasn't banned from pro leagues would he be on the level of faker?
Yezzus
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
United States2318 Posts
February 14 2014 21:57 GMT
#895
On February 15 2014 06:50 IMoperator wrote:
if apdo wasn't banned from pro leagues would he be on the level of faker?

Why is he banned?
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
February 14 2014 21:58 GMT
#896
On February 15 2014 06:57 Yezzus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2014 06:50 IMoperator wrote:
if apdo wasn't banned from pro leagues would he be on the level of faker?

Why is he banned?

hes known elo booster
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
February 14 2014 22:04 GMT
#897
On February 15 2014 06:58 kongoline wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2014 06:57 Yezzus wrote:
On February 15 2014 06:50 IMoperator wrote:
if apdo wasn't banned from pro leagues would he be on the level of faker?

Why is he banned?

hes known elo booster


I can kind of imagine his efficiency at his job.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
February 14 2014 22:09 GMT
#898
On February 15 2014 07:04 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2014 06:58 kongoline wrote:
On February 15 2014 06:57 Yezzus wrote:
On February 15 2014 06:50 IMoperator wrote:
if apdo wasn't banned from pro leagues would he be on the level of faker?

Why is he banned?

hes known elo booster


I can kind of imagine his efficiency at his job.

Hey guys there's still hope yet for Apdo

iirc it wasn't a permanent ban. Only for 1000 years or something.
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-14 22:17:42
February 14 2014 22:16 GMT
#899
nah he's just banned for 2 years from ogn, or 5 tourneys not including the winter one.

he's not as good as faker but really knows how to put up stats and carry in soloq. if you watch his games he plays a lot safer than faker but does a lot of good calculated ganks.

solo q wise faker doesn't play as much as apdo does and trolls a lot more(watch his first pick blitzcrank support games to get an idea lol), so you can't compare their stats directly. there are a ton of games between them up on youtube.


thing about apdo that attracts people is the unknown factor, the potential. but i don't think he's as good as ryu or ambition at mid at least right now, and potential wise short of pawn.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
MattBarry
Profile Joined March 2011
United States4006 Posts
February 14 2014 22:18 GMT
#900
I hope they never nerf Kassadin, I want him to hit 100% ban rate. In fact I hope they buff him
Platinum Support GOD
Prev 1 43 44 45 46 47 139 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
08:40
Best Games of SC
Serral vs Neeb
Reynor vs Clem
Maru vs GgMaChine
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft587
RuFF_SC2 245
StarCraft: Brood War
BeSt 458
Hyuk 151
Zeus 124
Mong 38
Sharp 30
Noble 10
Icarus 8
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm183
canceldota142
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 727
Other Games
summit1g10919
Livibee93
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1224
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra1260
• Shiphtur526
Upcoming Events
FEL
5h 30m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5h 30m
Replay Cast
18h 30m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 7h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.