EPT[Patch 4.1] Season 4 Start General Discussion - Page 217
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 09 2014 12:13 SidianTheBard wrote: What's so bad about vlad? Worst case he still should be able to go even in lane and his late game scaling is pretty massive. No. worst case. He gets bodied and lane and takes him 80min to get to relevance again. | ||
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On February 09 2014 12:13 Parnage wrote: Hey friends, is it true that in ranked if the matchmaker cant find another duo-que for a group they'll just make the other team a higher mmr? If your duoqing, on average every other lane will lose since they will be up against lane opponents that will be higher mmr then them on average. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On February 09 2014 12:13 SidianTheBard wrote: What's so bad about vlad? Worst case he still should be able to go even in lane and his late game scaling is pretty massive. Worst case scenario you get crushed in lane as Vlad, then your top laner roams and cause chaos to your team while you can do nothing but watch because as Vlad you are 99% damage 1% utility. | ||
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WiseBagus
Canada452 Posts
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Yezzus
United States2318 Posts
On February 09 2014 12:23 Sufficiency wrote: Worst case scenario you get crushed in lane as Vlad, then your top laner roams and cause chaos to your team while you can do nothing but watch because as Vlad you are 99% damage 1% utility. Vlad's ult provides alot of utility and with Rylias decent peeling due to his E | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 09 2014 12:27 WiseBagus wrote: What kind of runes are ADC's and supports running now that season 4 has settled? Adc's still run same runes since no rune change. So 4 or 6% lifesteal quints with flat ad reds, armor yellows, and scaling mr blues ( or flat depending on lane). Supports vary depending on lane. But generally armor yellows and scaling mr blues are standard. | ||
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
Only way I can really see you getting crushed early is if you die early to a gank, or you just constantly keep the lane shoved and they zone you out hard. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 09 2014 12:31 SidianTheBard wrote: I guess I don't understand how Vlad gets that crushed in lane so hard. All ranged attacks, Pool for safety, great sustain with Q. If you're getting pushed used 1 E to knock ranged casters down and you can easily last hit them under tower. It's not like many champions are going to be able to tower dive you because of your pool alone. Only way I can really see you getting crushed early is if you die early to a gank, or you just constantly keep the lane shoved and they zone you out hard. The problem is all the fotm toplaner just bully the shit out of him. It's near impossible to even stay in csing range while renekton mundo and shyv all can force you off creeps due to sheer strength. And all their item timing wreck whatever he can pull out. Think about it, what item timing is a vlad ever going to beat a Mundo? Or renekton? Maybe 4 item timing? Guess what, by then your entire team is getting wrekt while you're still farming up your item timing. | ||
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JonnyLaw
United States3482 Posts
On February 09 2014 12:31 SidianTheBard wrote: I guess I don't understand how Vlad gets that crushed in lane so hard. All ranged attacks, Pool for safety, great sustain with Q. If you're getting pushed used 1 E to knock ranged casters down and you can easily last hit them under tower. It's not like many champions are going to be able to tower dive you because of your pool alone. Only way I can really see you getting crushed early is if you die early to a gank, or you just constantly keep the lane shoved and they zone you out hard. Pool has a huge cd. | ||
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ItsFunToLose
United States776 Posts
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
Also if you're still fairly high health the damage it does to yourself is pretty fucking brutal. | ||
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
On February 09 2014 13:29 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Also if you're still fairly high health the damage it does to yourself is pretty fucking brutal. Well sure, but it's being talked about tower diving, your most likely not going to pool til you know they are committing and your low enough anyway. I guess I just can't see how vlad would really get that bullied out, especially since he can last hit under tower and keep himself sustained in lane extremely well. Also if the enemy top laner starts to roam vlad can just go E spam and push the wave extremely fast. It's just both Shyvana and Ren will have to push their wave if they want to harass you (and both their poke under towers really sucks. Mundo makes sense since he can clever spam you all day, but Shy & Ren? I'm sorry, I just can't see it. Do you not start dshield + pot or cloth+5 on vlad? | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On February 09 2014 13:29 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Also if you're still fairly high health the damage it does to yourself is pretty fucking brutal. honestly forcing vlad to pool is as good as trading, since its like 20% of his max hp or somethong on use lolol. not to mention his onyl real means of harassment(i.e what you have to max) starts with an absurd cd at lvl 1 before its finally decent at lvls 7/9 | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On February 09 2014 13:43 SidianTheBard wrote: Well sure, but it's being talked about tower diving, your most likely not going to pool til you know they are committing and your low enough anyway. I guess I just can't see how vlad would really get that bullied out, especially since he can last hit under tower and keep himself sustained in lane extremely well. Also if the enemy top laner starts to roam vlad can just go E spam and push the wave extremely fast. It's just both Shyvana and Ren will have to push their wave if they want to harass you (and both their poke under towers really sucks. Mundo makes sense since he can clever spam you all day, but Shy & Ren? I'm sorry, I just can't see it. Do you not start dshield + pot or cloth+5 on vlad? I don't know what kind of game you have been playing, but Renekton has been a traditional hard match up for Vlad since S2. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
On February 09 2014 14:09 arb wrote: honestly forcing vlad to pool is as good as trading, since its like 20% of his max hp or somethong on use lolol. not to mention his onyl real means of harassment(i.e what you have to max) starts with an absurd cd at lvl 1 before its finally decent at lvls 7/9 It's current HP, which means if he's at full health he shoots himself in the foot. This is the number one mistake that new Vlad players make. If you have very little health, the cost is negligible. The issue is, if you're that low, 3 seconds of untargetability is not going to save you against a jungler plus champions that tank turrets for ages like Shyvana, Mundo, or Renekton. To answer the more general question of why Vlad loses to all of these lanes, is firstly that he can't really deal with gapclosers/permaslows like most FotM toplaners have. He's REALLY easy to overextend with if you're in a lane where you can't outheal the damage dealt to you (this is all before level 9 btw. Once Vlad reaches this level there's no toplaner who can unseat him without a significant advantage. The issue is gaining that significant advantage against a Vlad is a cakewalk). Shyvana is a more unique case. Burnout is significantly more easy to deal with as Vlad than things like Infected Cleaver or Broken Wings; it's the powerful waveclear and map pressure that Shyvana brings that makes her so strong against Vlad. Under turret, Vlad is a hopeless case. It's pretty awful. As a sidenote, I want to say that Vlad vs Renekton is a totally manageable MU compared to the other two. Renekton is strong against you, but if he gets a fast Hydra hoping to be a stud in dragon fights while Vlad still catches up, he'll find that Vlad can be a relatively resilient champion. This is less the case without the old Spectral Wraith, but if the Renekton player isn't really knowledgeable about Vlad (not entirely rare at low MMR considering the champion is both very unique and somewhat uncommon nowadays) it's not that odd to see Renekton caught off-guard by Vlad's trading potential. It's still a bad MU in pro play, so this was a bit of a non-sequitur, but I like talking about Vlad :3 On February 09 2014 13:43 SidianTheBard wrote: Well sure, but it's being talked about tower diving, your most likely not going to pool til you know they are committing and your low enough anyway. I guess I just can't see how vlad would really get that bullied out, especially since he can last hit under tower and keep himself sustained in lane extremely well. Also if the enemy top laner starts to roam vlad can just go E spam and push the wave extremely fast. It's just both Shyvana and Ren will have to push their wave if they want to harass you (and both their poke under towers really sucks. Mundo makes sense since he can clever spam you all day, but Shy & Ren? I'm sorry, I just can't see it. Do you not start dshield + pot or cloth+5 on vlad? Renekton can kill you instantly in the middle of the lane. Bam. Pushing doesn't even matter because of that. But for Shyv and Renekton, in the case that they are pushed (which will happen pretty fast), there are two big things to remember. The first is that Vlad's gold income is cut by over 50% under turret typically since he's so hard to farm with until he gets good cooldowns. The second thing to remember is that it's really fucking hard for junglers to punish Renekton and Shyvana when they freefarm behind turret and ward the jungle, especially considering Vlad will have a ton of minions pushed to his turret, so he'll either be dealing with that, or throwing away a lot of gold to not even have CC to use on the toplaner that most likely has cowl. It's basically impossible to kill Shyvana once she gets Dragon's Descent, and after that, a cowl. It's a no-win situation for Vlad farm-wise until the enemy roams and fucks over your team while you get your 50 cs at 20 minutes. | ||
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
I completely agree with you saying that champions with tons of gap closers and permaslows make it a real pain in the ass for Vlad, but I also know if those champions are using their gap closers on you they are most likely pushing their wave and last hitting under the tower can be tricky with vlad but it's manageable. Using level 1 E and you can use 1 AA after the tower shot to kill all the ranged minions for instance. Broken Wings, most likely hitting multiple minions. Slice and Dice through minions. Burnout on minions. Now, pro play, I do think Vlad is pretty awesome, although he really doesn't bring much to help a team comp besides his Ult and his split pushing. Although, I guess once you get zhonyas your teamfight can be pretty disruptive because rotation > pool > rotation > hourglass > rotation but since you bring no hard CC most teams would probably before the stun from ren, permaslow from mundo etc etc. I always love talking about Vlad as well, when mystery gifts came out me and my bud kept doing it and the only skin I was hoping to get was Blood Lord Vlad. On the last day avail for mystery gifting, I had ~2k RP left and I was just going to buy Blord skin...after a few beers, said fk it, did another 3 mystery gifts. On my last gift...Blood Lord Vlad. Best Skin Ever. KNEEL BEFORE VLAD. I love it. edit. If they are proxying you, then that basically just negates your weak early game since vlad can pretty much sustain all day against minions. Then as you said, once you get level 9 there is nothing that's stopping you. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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