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[Patch 4.1] Season 4 Start General Discussion - Page 218

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Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
February 09 2014 05:48 GMT
#4341
I think you're also forgetting about the fact that Vlad's Q cooldown at level 1 is absurdly long. Shyv/Mundo have 0 problems with doing a farm lane and they turn online much faster than Vlad. Renekton can just wreck Vlad since Vlad's sustain is absolute shit until he hits level 7 and gets revolver. Renekton doesn't necessarily have to tower dive or get kills on Vlad. All he has to do is zone him, which he does very easily.

Vlad's teamfighting once he gets his core has always been immense. The problem is that you simply won't get that core until it's far too late since the fotm top laners either shit on him in lane, or provide a large impact much earlier.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
February 09 2014 05:50 GMT
#4342
On February 09 2014 14:43 SidianTheBard wrote:
3 seconds of untargetability is pretty strong though, especially since the top laner shouldn't be starting off building armor and therefore the extra tower hits they'll have to tank while vlad is pooled will hurt them quite a bit.

I completely agree with you saying that champions with tons of gap closers and permaslows make it a real pain in the ass for Vlad, but I also know if those champions are using their gap closers on you they are most likely pushing their wave and last hitting under the tower can be tricky with vlad but it's manageable. Using level 1 E and you can use 1 AA after the tower shot to kill all the ranged minions for instance.

Broken Wings, most likely hitting multiple minions. Slice and Dice through minions. Burnout on minions.

Now, pro play, I do think Vlad is pretty awesome, although he really doesn't bring much to help a team comp besides his Ult and his split pushing. Although, I guess once you get zhonyas your teamfight can be pretty disruptive because rotation > pool > rotation > hourglass > rotation but since you bring no hard CC most teams would probably before the stun from ren, permaslow from mundo etc etc.

I always love talking about Vlad as well, when mystery gifts came out me and my bud kept doing it and the only skin I was hoping to get was Blood Lord Vlad. On the last day avail for mystery gifting, I had ~2k RP left and I was just going to buy Blord skin...after a few beers, said fk it, did another 3 mystery gifts. On my last gift...Blood Lord Vlad. Best Skin Ever.

KNEEL BEFORE VLAD. I love it.

edit.

If they are proxying you, then that basically just negates your weak early game since vlad can pretty much sustain all day against minions. Then as you said, once you get level 9 there is nothing that's stopping you.

you can force vlad to pool then dive him, all your cds will be up before his lol
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
February 09 2014 05:55 GMT
#4343
On February 09 2014 14:43 SidianTheBard wrote:
3 seconds of untargetability is pretty strong though, especially since the top laner shouldn't be starting off building armor and therefore the extra tower hits they'll have to tank while vlad is pooled will hurt them quite a bit.

I completely agree with you saying that champions with tons of gap closers and permaslows make it a real pain in the ass for Vlad, but I also know if those champions are using their gap closers on you they are most likely pushing their wave and last hitting under the tower can be tricky with vlad but it's manageable. Using level 1 E and you can use 1 AA after the tower shot to kill all the ranged minions for instance.

Broken Wings, most likely hitting multiple minions. Slice and Dice through minions. Burnout on minions.

Now, pro play, I do think Vlad is pretty awesome, although he really doesn't bring much to help a team comp besides his Ult and his split pushing. Although, I guess once you get zhonyas your teamfight can be pretty disruptive because rotation > pool > rotation > hourglass > rotation but since you bring no hard CC most teams would probably before the stun from ren, permaslow from mundo etc etc.

I always love talking about Vlad as well, when mystery gifts came out me and my bud kept doing it and the only skin I was hoping to get was Blood Lord Vlad. On the last day avail for mystery gifting, I had ~2k RP left and I was just going to buy Blord skin...after a few beers, said fk it, did another 3 mystery gifts. On my last gift...Blood Lord Vlad. Best Skin Ever.

KNEEL BEFORE VLAD. I love it.

edit.

If they are proxying you, then that basically just negates your weak early game since vlad can pretty much sustain all day against minions. Then as you said, once you get level 9 there is nothing that's stopping you.


It iis actually 2 seconds.

Also ganking for vlad is a pain. The only CC he got is his W and he does very little damage pre9....
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
February 09 2014 06:11 GMT
#4344
There's a big difference between playing Vlad in solo q and at an LCS level. I'm not convinced at all that Vlad is a bad matchup against Renektons in Plat and lower. With relatively equivalent gold, I'd take a 4-6 item Vlad in team fights over a Renekton with equal cost items.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
February 09 2014 06:13 GMT
#4345
On February 09 2014 14:55 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2014 14:43 SidianTheBard wrote:
3 seconds of untargetability is pretty strong though, especially since the top laner shouldn't be starting off building armor and therefore the extra tower hits they'll have to tank while vlad is pooled will hurt them quite a bit.

I completely agree with you saying that champions with tons of gap closers and permaslows make it a real pain in the ass for Vlad, but I also know if those champions are using their gap closers on you they are most likely pushing their wave and last hitting under the tower can be tricky with vlad but it's manageable. Using level 1 E and you can use 1 AA after the tower shot to kill all the ranged minions for instance.

Broken Wings, most likely hitting multiple minions. Slice and Dice through minions. Burnout on minions.

Now, pro play, I do think Vlad is pretty awesome, although he really doesn't bring much to help a team comp besides his Ult and his split pushing. Although, I guess once you get zhonyas your teamfight can be pretty disruptive because rotation > pool > rotation > hourglass > rotation but since you bring no hard CC most teams would probably before the stun from ren, permaslow from mundo etc etc.

I always love talking about Vlad as well, when mystery gifts came out me and my bud kept doing it and the only skin I was hoping to get was Blood Lord Vlad. On the last day avail for mystery gifting, I had ~2k RP left and I was just going to buy Blord skin...after a few beers, said fk it, did another 3 mystery gifts. On my last gift...Blood Lord Vlad. Best Skin Ever.

KNEEL BEFORE VLAD. I love it.

edit.

If they are proxying you, then that basically just negates your weak early game since vlad can pretty much sustain all day against minions. Then as you said, once you get level 9 there is nothing that's stopping you.


It iis actually 2 seconds.

Also ganking for vlad is a pain. The only CC he got is his W and he does very little damage pre9....

he's like nidalee except he has a use past 10 minutes in the game
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Yezzus
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
United States2318 Posts
February 09 2014 06:15 GMT
#4346
Do you guys prefer sorc boots or cdr on vlad? I prefer Cdr
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2475 Posts
February 09 2014 06:17 GMT
#4347
I just believe with the new defense masteries, being able to start dshield + pot & having a trinket so you can either ward river or lane bush, it just makes vlad's early game that much easier, which means he can get to level 7+ faster which means he really can't be beat in lane. Revolver into WoTA is amazing on him, or even going Revolver into Seekers (or even vice versa if you're having waaay too much trouble) works as well.

All this Renekton talk too, isn't Rens slice and dice like an 18 second cooldown or something at level 1? Which means after he uses it you now basically have 18 seconds to punish him / sustain back up. Let's be honest here, if Ren doesn't have Slice and Dice up to get ontop of you he's not much of a threat.

I was always scared of Darius, yet he is never used anymore. Riven just recently got nerfs so she is much more manageable. Mundo is a pain if he's constantly hitting his cleavers on you but if he's not it's not that bad. Shyvana you just run away when she uses burnout since that's her only gap closer early game.

Just practice last hitting under the turret as vlad so you don't get pathetically far behind and you'll be fine.
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
February 09 2014 06:22 GMT
#4348
On February 09 2014 15:11 NeoIllusions wrote:
There's a big difference between playing Vlad in solo q and at an LCS level. I'm not convinced at all that Vlad is a bad matchup against Renektons in Plat and lower. With relatively equivalent gold, I'd take a 4-6 item Vlad in team fights over a Renekton with equal cost items.

i main vlad and im happy that people think renekton wins that matchup, i like crushing reneks who expect to auto rape every lane
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 09 2014 06:24 GMT
#4349
don't know if it means anything but samsung teams usually have their mid and jungler duo together. past few days it's been dandy + pawn and dade/mata + spirit. there's a chance they are dumpstering dade to blue lol
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-09 06:32:17
February 09 2014 06:26 GMT
#4350
Also, I think some of you are kinda underrating ganking for Vlad a bit. Sure, he doesn't have hard CC but Vlad should be last hitting lane with autos and harassing with Transfusion. If the enemy top lane is low, all Vlad has to do is bait a fight and Sanguine Pool at the right point. That means pooling on top of Renekton after he Diced or when Shyvana is near the end of her Burnout.
Pool is a 40% slow for 1 second. Frankly, I think that's comparable to Nunu's Snowball, which is only a 20% slow. It's really about timing things just right and knowing how to bait a commitment when you're getting a gank as Vlad.

@arb: Nidalee is immensely useful. Just don't try to team fight if you have her on your team.
@Yezzus: I sorc boots on Vlad since Season 2 and you could no longer stack Revolvers.
@Sidian: Darius is a horrible matchup for Vlad. Decimate and the bleed outdamage what you can heal from Transfusion. When you pool, you're setting yourself up for a free Apprehend at Darius's leisure, etc. Riven is a much harder matchup that Renekton for Vlad. You obv want to take advantage of her in between cooldowns but she has so many gapclosers and they're all much lower CD than Slice/Dice. Mundo shouldn't be hard. Neither should Renek/Shy.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
February 09 2014 06:31 GMT
#4351
4.2 coming tuesday.
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4262005
Frudgey
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada3367 Posts
February 09 2014 06:33 GMT
#4352
Hi guys I have some Draaaaaaaaaaaaaven questions. Specifically, how to harass as Draven.

Considering things are "normal" and I'm reacting to the current situation well enough I usually go for trades when:
1) My support lands a hook or does something a support typically does.
2) Their support misses a skill shot
3) If for some odd reason they just happen to walk up close to me without me having to go balls deep into their creep wave.

So are these appropriate times to go for trades? Should I be ramping up my aggression more because I'm Draven? Should I only follow the support's lead?

Any advice would be appreciated!
It is better to die for The Emperor than live for yourself.
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
February 09 2014 06:35 GMT
#4353
Just want to say that Lucian is so fun to pick when the opponent goes Kha'Zix jungle. He's so absurdly good against him. It's great.
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-09 06:41:27
February 09 2014 06:41 GMT
#4354
Dunno, I very rarely had problems against Vlad as Renekton. You have so much more kill potential from levels 1-4 and Vlad assists ganks especially poorly at those levels. If your jungler leaves you out on an island and you're getting camped or your jungler forces a bad 2v2 its annoying because suddenly Vlad can outsustain a lot of your damage and has kill potential if you're careless.

Barring that, it's generally a walk in the park. Like what does he do to you? At best he's surviving at tower until he's relevant.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
February 09 2014 07:05 GMT
#4355
Vlad also dies horribly to bruiser(wits+cowl) teemo. Pretty hilariously one sided lane.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
February 09 2014 07:07 GMT
#4356
On February 09 2014 16:05 Amui wrote:
Vlad also dies horribly to bruiser(wits+cowl) teemo. Pretty hilariously one sided lane.

That's gotta sting.
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2475 Posts
February 09 2014 07:08 GMT
#4357
and then you realize it's a wits + cowl teemo so it doesn't really matter.
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-09 07:12:58
February 09 2014 07:11 GMT
#4358
On February 09 2014 15:11 NeoIllusions wrote:
There's a big difference between playing Vlad in solo q and at an LCS level. I'm not convinced at all that Vlad is a bad matchup against Renektons in Plat and lower. With relatively equivalent gold, I'd take a 4-6 item Vlad in team fights over a Renekton with equal cost items.

Pretty much this. The problem with running slightly unfavorable matchups in LCS or higher level of play, small disadvantages in a matchup can be blown the fuck wide open in lane. Also, even if they aren't, OGN level team play take advantages off of small gold advantages that can come from bad matchups (especially if the matchup doesn't have a midgame spike, and only offers late game scaling).
On February 09 2014 15:33 Frudgey wrote:
Hi guys I have some Draaaaaaaaaaaaaven questions. Specifically, how to harass as Draven.

Considering things are "normal" and I'm reacting to the current situation well enough I usually go for trades when:
1) My support lands a hook or does something a support typically does.
2) Their support misses a skill shot
3) If for some odd reason they just happen to walk up close to me without me having to go balls deep into their creep wave.

So are these appropriate times to go for trades? Should I be ramping up my aggression more because I'm Draven? Should I only follow the support's lead?

Any advice would be appreciated!

Always trade when they go for Cannon minion when you wouldn't miss a CS. Pop W, the second you see them go for a cannon minion (especially if they over extend for a cs).
liftlift > tsm
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-09 07:14:00
February 09 2014 07:12 GMT
#4359
On February 09 2014 16:08 SidianTheBard wrote:
and then you realize it's a wits + cowl teemo so it doesn't really matter.

You've never faced a blade+wits teemo who's a full item up on anybody else in the game, who's completely ungankable because there's a huge minefield, and your top laner can't do anything under a turret without dying then I guess.

I actually like bruiser teemo more than AP teemo because you can actually teamfight and duel people down because of how deceptively tanky you are, and global taunt. Can pretty much win fights singlehandedly if you're fed enough.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
February 09 2014 07:18 GMT
#4360
On February 09 2014 15:33 Frudgey wrote:
Hi guys I have some Draaaaaaaaaaaaaven questions. Specifically, how to harass as Draven.

Considering things are "normal" and I'm reacting to the current situation well enough I usually go for trades when:
1) My support lands a hook or does something a support typically does.
2) Their support misses a skill shot
3) If for some odd reason they just happen to walk up close to me without me having to go balls deep into their creep wave.

So are these appropriate times to go for trades? Should I be ramping up my aggression more because I'm Draven? Should I only follow the support's lead?

Any advice would be appreciated!

If your support lands a hook go ham and you'll kill them.

You should always be playing aggressive but trying to not miss cs, you basically come in lane a BF sword up
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
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