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On February 01 2014 21:39 Malphite wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2014 21:26 ItsFunToLose wrote:On February 01 2014 20:56 Malphite wrote:On February 01 2014 15:46 Amui wrote:
Cs is relative, but unless the lane has been an absolute bloodbath(which does happen from time to time) 100/10m is benchmark without jungle, with 80+ being good.
For nasus, with absolute free farm and tp I think 150-180 for first 10m and ~300 for every 10m after that is around the maximum. For most lanes though,100 for first 10 and 150+ for every 10 after is fine. I'm platinum right now.. and i have buddies who are diamond 1-3 range...100 for first 10 mins is the benchmark?? FOR THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD. I bet you 100 dollars pay pal right now.. you won't ever reach 100 cs in first 10 mins laning against someone decent. People act like LCS is the benchmark. Why don't we have benchmarks for other games and sports as well?? Ok only 360 dunks when playing basketball is the benchmark. For starcraft 2 the benchmark is 300 APM and if you're under, u suck. I am above average at cs'ing... 100 for first 10 mins is the benchmark for top lane?? you never played this game in your life if you say that. Mid maybe because you can farm wraiths (4 cs) after the wave and come back to lane without missing a creep. Don't listen to this guy, he doesn't know what he's talking about. you sound mad. ill go top lane, you go bottom lane. at 10 minutes, vs empty lane, i'll bet you $100 i have more CS than you. it's the benchmark. shut up. LOL i'm mad? why because i'm actually decent at the game and actually know how to play?? I bet you're not even in silver LOL LOL 100 cs every 10 mins is the norm?? LOL what's your ID?? I bet you don't even average 180 cs on your top champs. LOL 30 min game average. do the math. I'm pretty sure i've only been playing for a year and better than 90 percent of the people. I don't spread dumb things like 100 cs every 10 mins. go back to playing bronze mmr
got placed plat V, i must be doing something right.
my account is ItsFunToLose. 285 cs/game atm. (was over 300 per game, won my last 2 too fast. first world problems) 9-2 teemo get at me.
Saying 100 cs per 10 minutes is like being required to 360 dunk at the park with your friends is some of the dumbest internet nonsense i've ever read. and I believe the earth is hollow and inhabited by aliens.
90 cs by 10, 200 cs by 20, 330 by 30 is probably much more realistic.
go into an empty game and stream yourself last hitting vs an empty lane. you miss more CS than you think you do.
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Maybe it's just my sleep deprived brain but it sounds like you guys are essentially arguing over semantics of "this is the ideal" vs "this is what's likely to actually happen" Seriously seems pretty silly, however entertaining.
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On February 01 2014 22:46 Parnage wrote:
Maybe it's just my sleep deprived brain but it sounds like you guys are essentially arguing over semantics of "this is the ideal" vs "this is what's likely to actually happen" Seriously seems pretty silly, however entertaining.
NO THIS IS SERIOUS SHIT RIGHT NOW. I 360 WINDMILL AT THE PARK ON 12 FOOT RIMS WHILE WARMING UP AS I ROLL OUT OF BED. whatissleephelpplz. i just got allinnedddddddd by a shyvanna. i literally did nothing for a full second when she flashed WQ'd me. healp
User was warned for this post
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On February 01 2014 22:53 ItsFunToLose wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2014 22:46 Parnage wrote:
Maybe it's just my sleep deprived brain but it sounds like you guys are essentially arguing over semantics of "this is the ideal" vs "this is what's likely to actually happen" Seriously seems pretty silly, however entertaining. NO THIS IS SERIOUS SHIT RIGHT NOW. I 360 WINDMILL AT THE PARK ON 12 FOOT RIMS WHILE WARMING UP AS I ROLL OUT OF BED.
Reported.
User was warned for this post
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yo can you guys help me out. It feels like for the past 3 or so days, I cannot win my lane without my jungler ganking. Like I'll get harassed at level 1-2, lose every trade, get out cs'd, get out-roamed, basically it feels like i get dumpstered in every sense. And the stupid thing is that the days before like wednesday, i would get stupidly fed and carry games really hard. I went from +9 wins up to even in ranked, lost a total of 5 promo series to plat 2, and generally just cannot win. Idk what happened but it feels like in a straight 1v1 idk how to win anymore, like i'm never confident that i can just flat out dumpster my mid opponent. and one of my biggest problems is that when i do bad with my main champs, i just start going full yolo and picking random shit, like gragas, i never play fucking gragas but when im losing a bunch i try to play him and end up doing terrible. need some good league psychology help lol.
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On February 01 2014 21:57 NeoIllusions wrote:zzz, some of you guys need better perspective. - CS/min is a good benchmark cause it's automatically tabulated by the game. Some people were talking about missed CS/min? That is situational (roaming/not roaming) and impossible to measure while playing. Please use sense.
- 100 CS / 10 min, that's like Scarra afk Karthus farm level. It's what Froggen does while staying mid (not roaming) and taking wraiths/wolves. It's also possible for Top Lane to hit that benchmark (shove, do enemy jungle) or for ADC (shove, do golems) but realistically 100/10 is incredibly hard to do. It's not even LCS level. You have to be completely dedicated to farming and your team is banking on your probable absence from contesting objectives for a stronger late game.
- Reasonably 70-80 CS / 10 min. That's last hitting well in lane. Shoving when enemy bases and you base yourself immediately after pushing the wave to the enemy turret. This benchmark obviously lowered the more you roam.
Iirc xwx was styling all over one of the challenger team with his bling gragas with 400 cs at 29m30s mark. Also his cs on nidalee was hitting really high. Obviously games like these are exceptions, but should definitely something to stive for, especially in solo queue with the "1v9" mentality.
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On February 01 2014 23:24 IMoperator wrote:
yo can you guys help me out. It feels like for the past 3 or so days, I cannot win my lane without my jungler ganking. Like I'll get harassed at level 1-2, lose every trade, get out cs'd, get out-roamed, basically it feels like i get dumpstered in every sense. And the stupid thing is that the days before like wednesday, i would get stupidly fed and carry games really hard. I went from +9 wins up to even in ranked, lost a total of 5 promo series to plat 2, and generally just cannot win. Idk what happened but it feels like in a straight 1v1 idk how to win anymore, like i'm never confident that i can just flat out dumpster my mid opponent. and one of my biggest problems is that when i do bad with my main champs, i just start going full yolo and picking random shit, like gragas, i never play fucking gragas but when im losing a bunch i try to play him and end up doing terrible. need some good league psychology help lol.
Go back to a comfort champion, no matter if they're not that good. Whenever I go on tilt like this I go back to playing Lux, since she was the first I ever really got "good with and understand her power spikes more than any new champion I've picked up. Play comfort champion, listen to chill music (if this helps you concentrate - for me, Blackmill is some sort of focus steroid) and play safe. Just my $.02.
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On February 01 2014 16:51 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2014 15:57 MattBarry wrote:On February 01 2014 12:47 wei2coolman wrote:On February 01 2014 12:43 DaBears57 wrote:
Yo, who the fuck beats yasuo 1v1? Any tips/champions? most tanky toplaner can beat him. Renekton can wreck him pretty hard, but those lanes you have totally dominate him, otherwise if he actually gets shiv+ie combo, he fucking absolutely wrecks face. Zed absolutely destroys him at like level 11 at least in my experience. You gotta make sure there are no friendly minions around though so you can actually hit q. Laning directly against him is pretty hard early game but it's not like anyone can stop zed from farming Garen. It's so easy.
its almost as if I'm not needed here any more
On February 01 2014 21:57 NeoIllusions wrote:zzz, some of you guys need better perspective. - CS/min is a good benchmark cause it's automatically tabulated by the game. Some people were talking about missed CS/min? That is situational (roaming/not roaming) and impossible to measure while playing. Please use sense.
- 100 CS / 10 min, that's like Scarra afk Karthus farm level. It's what Froggen does while staying mid (not roaming) and taking wraiths/wolves. It's also possible for Top Lane to hit that benchmark (shove, do enemy jungle) or for ADC (shove, do golems) but realistically 100/10 is incredibly hard to do. It's not even LCS level. You have to be completely dedicated to farming and your team is banking on your probable absence from contesting objectives for a stronger late game.
- Reasonably 70-80 CS / 10 min. That's last hitting well in lane. Shoving when enemy bases and you base yourself immediately after pushing the wave to the enemy turret. This benchmark obviously lowered the more you roam.
1: "aiming" for cs is kind of stupid. If you don't reach that aim, what do you do? If you do, how should it help you? It should be possible to know how much CS you are missing based off your memory of the lanish phase. It also should be possible to know how well you are csing based on everyone else in the game. If you're afk farming top lane for 20 minutes and only have 125 cs, that could be a lot worse than playing very actively and ganking mid and going for dragons and bot ganks and havin 100 cs. Having 120 cs there might be fine but 125 after afk farming is pretty terrible.
It's not like jungling where your gold and XP is directly under your control in terms of how you much you decide to gank. For the most part the cs you want is "AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE" and thus you should strive to get every cs you can. That's why pro players get mad when they miss cs. Every time they try to get all the cs they can and when they don't they get annoyed because its not THAT hard.
2: 100/10 is hard because creeps don't arrive until 2 minutes and then you have to base without boots possible a few times etc. Getting 200 cs by 22 minutes isn't that hard at all if you don't roam and then getting 300 cs by 32 minutes is hard because you probably have to ignore your team and afk farm a bit too much in a lot of games to reach that.
12 CS a minute is the maximum (12.666 because of a cannon minion every 3rd wave) for one lane. 100 cs per 10 minutes indicates almost 85% of maximum cs. Getting maximum cs might be a lot easier if you're a renekton proxy farming with sunfire and doing golems, but doing it with warwick farming under tower is massively harder. That's why these benchmarks aren't important.
If you can't tell how well you're doing on CS based on everyone else in the game/your previous games/your memory of your %accuracy, something's wrong. Benchmarks are decent for you if you are super biased and think you are csing well but you aren't, but for the most part you should forget it.
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1v9 is a terrible mentality
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On February 01 2014 23:28 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2014 21:57 NeoIllusions wrote:zzz, some of you guys need better perspective. - CS/min is a good benchmark cause it's automatically tabulated by the game. Some people were talking about missed CS/min? That is situational (roaming/not roaming) and impossible to measure while playing. Please use sense.
- 100 CS / 10 min, that's like Scarra afk Karthus farm level. It's what Froggen does while staying mid (not roaming) and taking wraiths/wolves. It's also possible for Top Lane to hit that benchmark (shove, do enemy jungle) or for ADC (shove, do golems) but realistically 100/10 is incredibly hard to do. It's not even LCS level. You have to be completely dedicated to farming and your team is banking on your probable absence from contesting objectives for a stronger late game.
- Reasonably 70-80 CS / 10 min. That's last hitting well in lane. Shoving when enemy bases and you base yourself immediately after pushing the wave to the enemy turret. This benchmark obviously lowered the more you roam.
Iirc xwx was styling all over one of the challenger team with his bling gragas with 400 cs at 29m30s mark. Also his cs on nidalee was hitting really high. Obviously games like these are exceptions, but should definitely something to stive for, especially in solo queue with the "1v9" mentality.
XaioWexaio is a really good farmer, he's not very good at anything else but if anyone could hit absurd numbers it'd be him.
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On February 01 2014 13:13 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2014 13:06 iCanada wrote:On February 01 2014 12:56 ketchup wrote:On February 01 2014 12:36 Sufficiency wrote:On February 01 2014 12:09 DaBears57 wrote:
What are the benchmarks for farming (I.E. XXX CS at 10 mins, XXX CS at 15 mins) and what is a good goal/benchmark for nasus Q farm at various times (10, 20 etc..) I rarely look at my CS. I feel that it's simply not a good indicator for anything. Please rethink this idea. I don't know how you learned to play this game or any type of game such as this without keeping track of your CS. It's such a huge factor, and I'm frankly amazed you didn't get called out for this already. I actually agree with Sufficiency. It really depends on the game. Some games passive farmfests, and CS is a good guage of gold an how a lane is going. Other games, you could be 30 cs up on your lane opponent but he could be ahead 1.5k gold from roaming. the amount of raw CS you have menas nothiung really, its the amount of gold you have relative to your opponents, and the relative item timings basewd on Character/build/comp etc that mean something. You could out CS your opponent everygame and lose npnp. Regardless of how the game goes, you should have several cs benchmarks in your head. Adjust accordingly as to how the game is going. For example, if you know your opponent is roaming you know the benchmark is perfect cs, and then you have to figure out a way to do better than that. If the lane involves lots of duelling, you adjust downwards instead. But you need that benchmark in your head to begin with to know what you want to compare against. You're thinking too much of "well what if X happened". CS is also a pure mechanical thing. If you have poor cs, regardless of the reason, it means you need to practise your mechanics. Completely disregarding cs as any indication of anything is also incredibly poor. You don't ignore your worker count in Starcraft "oh because maybe it's a proxy rax game" or something. You still have benchmarks you need to be hitting, and you just adjust your expectation depending on how the match is going. But if you're ignoring it completely that's a terrible attitude to have.
I am still not sure why you warned me. It seems that it's simply because I had a different opinion from yours. CS is still useless and does not really mean anything.
Let's see why it is useless:
1. It doesn't give any indications whatsoever as to how well your lane is doing. First of all, like iCanada said, your lane opponent could be 50 CS down from you but got 5 kills from roaming and helped his team to snowball, while you just sat at your tower jerking yourself off. Even if he is not roaming, if you are playing mid lane and he is shoving you to your tower 24/7 (with no roams) you are losing your lane even if you are even on CS.
2. Paying too much attention on CS put you on tilt and makes you make bad decisions. If you are behind in CS and you keep looking at your CS, you will start tunnelvisioning on it and missing out opportunities for other things.
3. You can't compare workers in SC with CS in LoL. It's entirely different. In SC, the only way you can get resources is through mining crystals and gas using workers at expansions, and because the game can have mirror match ups, you can fairly easily crush your opponent if you are up on expansions. LoL has 5 players on each team, many different ways to get gold, no mirror match ups, and very easy to turn the table through good plays.
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CSing is a good indicator for how well your %CSing accuracy is, the rest you have to figure out for yourself.
Your post was definitely dumb but I can see what you meant.
You shouldn't post in such a sensationalizing way.
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I hate ARAM. It's so damn unplayable between the server lag and the different camera that would require you to relearn to eye out the max range of abilities like Syndra's or Orianna's, 'cept it's random so it's not worth it if you've got more than 10 champions.
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Actually, the camera really is far worse than the lag, since it affects you even under normal conditions. But it's so frustrating, taking the whole "dancing" thing out while putting you in what is basically a giant siege.
I wish Riot would at least give the option to lock the camera to "same as SR", since reverting the change wouldn't make sense for them, with the whole "bigger camera = more scenery = more atmosphere for the "Howling Abyss" theme". I mean, I know I can zoom in, but unless I find the same zoom as on SR it's still not going to be the same as far as eyeballing ranges goes.
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does any1 has the VOD for clg eu vs frost ogn finals?
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On February 02 2014 01:18 justiceknight wrote:
does any1 has the VOD for clg eu vs frost ogn finals?
beep beep im a link
match 2 and so on should be at the top of the list in related
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On February 02 2014 00:55 Sufficiency wrote:
I am still not sure why you warned me. It seems that it's simply because I had a different opinion from yours. CS is still useless and does not really mean anything.
You posted a one-liner which simply stated that cs is a useless indicator. If you had said "You shouldn't focus only on cs scores because there are so many other factors that affect your game" and provided an explanation that would have been fine. But one-line stuff incorrect.
Secondly, you are objectively wrong that cs score is a useless metric. Your cs is the only statistic in game you can use to see how much you've last hit. Sure, it's not the only thing that decides a lane, but it's still very important. You use benchmarks as a guideline, and then adjust accordingly as to how the game is going. If you're being shoved into tower and the other guy is roaming and you're even on cs, then ofc it's not a good thing. But you rely on the cs score to tell you you're getting an uneven exchange here. Your cs score isn't some law you have to follow. It's a guideline. And you adjust accordingly to what's going on in game.
Happy Urfday by the way!
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I wake up to some juicy fights on this thread lol
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Faceit EUW invitational spoilers:
+ Show Spoiler + C9.EU aren't quite above everyone as people thought they just got ran over by unicorns of love, a team that I literally only know one player from. Lots of completely new faces are matching up to the likes of C9 EU and NiP as it turns out. EU challenger scene looks like it won't have a repeat of copenhagen wolves outclassing everyone for 6 months
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I know Arpen vs AD is a banned discussion but my question is way more specific than that for Zed. I don't know the math of ArPen vs AD but we'll assume that last hitting is piss easy on Zed, is ArPen significantly better for dueling?
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On February 02 2014 02:28 MattBarry wrote:
I know Arpen vs AD is a banned discussion but my question is way more specific than that for Zed. I don't know the math of ArPen vs AD but we'll assume that last hitting is piss easy on Zed, is ArPen significantly better for dueling?
Zed gets lots of free AD from his W and his passive means that last hitting under the turret is easy without flat AD so he gets much more throughout the game from armour pen.
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EPT
